And seriously, guys...

[tencrush]

SHE'S HIS FUCKING WIFE!!

She's not Rose, she's not Jenny, she's not the Rani, she's not Romana. River Song is the Doctor's wife from the future. She's going to die in the next episode. He will spend all that time with her, doing all that funstuff in her diary, knowing precisely how and when she will inevitably die.

Paradoxes, inevitability, fate, curse of a Time Lord... Jesus Christ to hear fandom talking you'd think they'd never seen a Moffat episode before.

EDITED TO ADD SOMETHING I POSTED IN THE COMMENTS: I don't understand what everyone's so worked up about, she's not the next companion, she's his lover/wife from some point in the future. We'll more than likely never see her again. It's about time travel and the weirdness involved. It's about the Doctor losing the woman he loves, BEFORE HE LOVES HER. It's about her dying in the arms of a man WHO DOESN'T LOVE HER YET. It's a timey-wimey Moffat story, nothing more.

Moffat's apparent fascination with the mechanics of time travel make me tremendously excited about his tenure as boss. I think if Moffat does go for any sort of overriding story arc, it will be far more clever than Rusty's namechecking "Torchwood" every bloody episode, and will probably deal with the same themes he seems so fond of, fixed history, inevitability of events, consequences of past and future actions. I'm excited about Moffat, really I am.

Comments

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Worse, he'll have to hold her horrible remains while her neural relay stutters "I love you... I love you... love... love..." I bet a buck on it.

[tencrush]

I see your buck and raise you BOTH OF MY CHILDREN.

[jbs-teeth.livejournal.com]

I am FULL ON WITH YOU THERE, mostly because this plot line is recognizable as lifted directly from "The Time Traveler's Wife," which is one of the best books of the last five years or so.

And they will twist the shit out of that knife when its in her because they will also talk about him not being the last of the Time Lords or alone or the Master in a woman's body or some shit like that, and it will hurt us significantly as soon as it happens and again in future episodes, where the possibility of seeing her again will be ridiculously hard and bittersweet.

[lankyguy.livejournal.com]

Of course you're right. I think it's fairly obvious.

[problematique.livejournal.com]

The problem is people, and I will include myself, really don't want that to be the case. It's the obvious and correct answer but just....no.

Not with Rose coming back and having to deal with that again too it's all just too much for my taste.

[tencrush]

But the story of River isn't playing out now that's the whole point. He doesn't love her now. It's the fucked-uppedness of time travel, and it's a subject Moffat keeps coming back to.

And I don't really see what Rose has to do with anything. I mean, there's shipping Ten/Rose and then there's being weirdly delusional and thinking River Song is The Master in disguise.

[lightfromlight.livejournal.com]

I found the speculation entertaining until someone speculated that she's his daughter with Rose. NO NO NO NO NO NOT RIGHT.

I think that this is it. It's a nice little mindfuck and gives us copious emo!Ten.

[hotchellerae.livejournal.com]

And that would be me...

It was just a joke, really. I don't think that's at all possible. I'm just wondering if there's something else she could be, but apparently I'm in the minority.

[thedorkygirl.livejournal.com]

Have we usually guessed the ends of his eps correctly (fandom-wide, I mean)?

[tencrush]

I don't think we've ever attempted it. TEC/TDD was his only other two parter, and that was his first writing for Who, so we didn't have much to go on.

[wiccagirl24.livejournal.com]

Wife/love. i completely agree. All the 'so and so' regenerated stuff is insane.

*grins*

Thank you for not being another anti-River post!

[pink-soprano.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And, by the way...yes.

Also, I think she's fantastic. What's with all the hating that's going on?!

[lightfromlight.livejournal.com]

She acts that intimate with the Doctor [and isn't Rose.] That, with or without the part in brackets, is enough to freak disparate groups of people the fuck out.

[descrime.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people are having a knee jerk reaction after requited!Rose and unrequited!Martha and the coy Donna hints, but I actually love River as his wife specifically because he doesn't love her right now, he doesn't even really like her right now, and yet when he does love her, he won't be able to come back to the moment of her death because he's already there, which is just deliciously messed up. I love how Moffat uses time.

[tencrush]

Yeah, Moffat's always messing around with timelines, he seems far more interested in the actual mechanics and repercussions of time travel than anyone else writing for the show at the moment.

[longlostblue.livejournal.com]

As much as I'm really not digging River Song, I'm still amazed by all the weird theories about her! I mean, why can't she just be his future wife? Theories are fun to a point, but it just seems pretty obvious.

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

I think folks are probably know River Song is most likely the Doctor's future wife -- they're just trying to concentrate on other possibilities because for whatever reason, they don't want her to be his wife. I really don't like River Song, so I'd be thrilled if it turned out that, say, she just got hold of the Doctor's bio and she's trying to con him into thinking they have an important future relationship -- but realistically, River will probably turn out to be his wife and we'll be stuck with her, like it or not.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I was just happy that Moffat was dealing with time travel in an interesting way yet again, which is something that isn't dealt with often enough in a series about a time traveler.

I really hope she is his wife, because I love Alex Kingston and can't wait to see her return - and meet The Doctor for the first time. Frankly, next Saturday 2010 cannot come quickly enough!

[trotskysnowball.livejournal.com]

At last, sanity.

I'd bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets we never see her again.

[the-time-lady.livejournal.com]

I truly hope you win that bet.

[dragonbloodink.livejournal.com]

The question then becomes--for me, anyway--how is he going to let himself fall in love with this woman when he meets her in the future, after having seen her die? You gotta admit, Ten's not the most emotionally...er, stable, reasonable, etc. etc. person. He doesn't handle loss well. I'd think his every moment with her would be haunted by what he knows awaits her in her future and his past. That has to be ten kinds of hell on a relationship.

[tencrush]

And maybe, inevitably, timey-wimey style, that's WHY they're not travelling the same timeline and travelling together. Maybe he spends all of their relationship trying not to fall in love with her and trying to push her away.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

*clings to you* I expected some joking spec about her being Romana or Jenny or whoever, but there are people arguing in all seriousness for her being one of about twenty people and getting stroppy at people disagreeing. I'm with you on her identity. If the twist was she that she was evil or a conman or whatever, there wouldn't have been any coyness about who she is - she would have introduced herself as his future wife.

[sonormalithurts.livejournal.com]

This is the first sane post I've seen about River Song. (Thank you for that, thank you all.) Seriously, what the hell fandom. It's two episodes. You don't like it? Fucking take it like a man and stop whining. Two. Episodes.

[winterwooskie2.livejournal.com]

Aah, but River Song will live in for ever! IN OUR HEARTS AND IRE!! BURN THE THREAT TO THE SHIP!!!

In before Silence in the Library denial starts to surface. "Oh, I like to pretend that after TUATW they went straight to Midnight."

[winterwooskie2.livejournal.com]

IAWTP. Well said. (although I'd settle for 'partner' - the Doctor's terrible with weddings, especially his own, so he probably missed it!)

People can ship Rose/Ten all they want, but it's getting out of hand when any female character who goes near the Doctor is accused of being (actual quote!) "an evil manipulative liar." I wasn't particularly taken by River, but I feel like people aren't giving her a chance at all. How are you supposed to enjoy a show if you perceive everyone as a 'threat' to your ship? So odd!
Besides, I love the idea of this incredibly tragic and poignant love that begins and ends in the same episode but exists outside of it as well. It's very clever! And I'm generally ANTI-Doctoromance, but it's still intriguing and could be potentially done well.

Of course, my personal crack canon is that yes, she's his wife - BUT ALSO SHE'S FUTURE!JACK. Jack -> River -> ??? -> Boeface! I mean, it just seems OBVIOUS. ;)

[eneffigie.livejournal.com]

Finally. I keep looking at these River Song speculation threads hoping someone will actually say something that makes sense instead of coming up with ridiculous theories about her being Jack/Jenny/Rose/the Master/the Rani/Lucy/the Doctor's second cousin twice removed/a Toclafane/Romana/ETC. I think the story would actually be way less interesting if any of those bizarre theories where the truth.

[spoofmaster]

You're probably right, though I'm still not going to commit to any theory of precisely what relationship they have. I haven't been reading the posts (just saw the episode tonight, actually), but after this one I think I'll exhibit my common sense by avoiding the others, since it sounds like a lot of first degree wank. I got a bit of almost sinister vibes off of River Song, but I really don't think she's going to turn out to be some horrible con artist. It's probably just the overall weirdness of the situation.

Seeing as Ten is such an emo ball of masochism, the fact that River Song is very likely to die during his first meeting with her, I think, makes it make more sense that he would get caught up in that relationship, whether or not he intends to do so. In a way, I suppose, it'd almost like he got all the hurt out right at the beginning--he's seen her die, so he knows that any more meetings will be all wibbly wobbly timey wimey and not end in her dying (well, probably. I'm sure he could always inadvertently create a horrible paradox if he was careless).

Anyway, I'm mostly wondering what "saved" means, and worrying about Donna. Not going to go around reading the speculations, though. I already regret reading the River Song spoilers and not getting to just find out when I saw it.

[leoniedelt.livejournal.com]

Davison make Dalek go boom. ♥ that episode for sooo many reasons....

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

um, yes yes

[violethamster.livejournal.com]

That'll probably turn out to be the case, but it seems kind of meh to me. And I'll like the story less if it's that utterly predictable. It would be nice if there were some kind of twist, although preferably something no one has predicted.
River Song hasn't grabbed my interest as a character, honestly I'd forget her existence in two seconds if people weren't still talking about her. I'm more focused on wondering if there's any chance they might surprise me and Donna might actually be dead, and future appearances could be an alt!Donna from Rose's world.

[holdingoff.livejournal.com]

...it's about her dying in the arms of a man WHO DOESN'T LOVE HER YET...

i'll guess she dies in his arms because she'll throw herself in harms way to make sure he lives to meet her in the future...

Moffat at the helm could be incredible, it could also be frustrating as all get out- but at least it won't be filled with "aren't we so clever" moments ala RTD.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

It's about her dying in the arms of a man WHO DOESN'T LOVE HER YET.

THAT'S VERY DEPRESSING.

[girlfmkitty.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying it! Spoilerphobes out there drive me nuts when I can't even comment with what I know to be trufax... *sigh*

[ellji.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I think everyone's on the wrong track. I'm going to call it, for the record. She's his biographer.

Come on. Book of his history? Calling it "spoilers", which is his rule? Told Donna basically the same thing about the biographies? Who else would know so much about his life? Who else, but an archeologist, could possibly write it?

Sure, she could be married to him at some point, or whatever, but that doesn't really matter. The fact is, she's his biographer, and that's what's going to be important for the next episode.

Also, consider this; constantly throughout this season, it's been empisised about time being stable or in flux. Events can, and probably will, change.

[tencrush]

That's actually quite an interesting idea.

[purple-pirate.livejournal.com]

I am wanting to friend you on the basis of this post alone - is that wrong?
:D
I totally agree about the thrill of Moff taking on the mechanics of time travel. A series about a time traveller that explores the astonishing possibilities and paradoxes of time travel. Imagine!

(I am, and its gonna be brilliant...)