How they killed my Janto, dudes.
Mar. 6th, 2008 07:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tencrushI'm still full of hate after Something Borrowed, and I'll attempt to explain why.
In Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, we were given a promising glimpse of Ianto-with-a-spine. He basically stated he wasn't interested in being Jack's part time office shag and wanted more, or no deal. Jack seemed to be au fait with this and looked to be pursuing the relationship. My little shipper heart went YAY, and that didn't really change, especially after To The Last Man, when I, along with everyone else in the world, pretty much saw what appeared to be a declaration of love from Jack. OMG WOW. Then... what the fuck happened?
I started to develop hate when Ianto said he and Jack 'dabbled'. While I could defend Jack's trying to hide the relationship based on what he said in Meat (he has an emotional investment, it makes you vulnerable, and he really shouldn't be forming EMOTIONAL bonds with his team, because it affects his abilities as their leader, yeah? Fine.), here, though, we suddenly have Ianto downplaying what I had assumed was an emotional attachment to Jack, and why? Dead Man Walking, again, shows Ianto on the defensive with regards to the relationship. "It's not like that", right, OK. Funnily enough, Ianto seems too unsure to expand and tell Owen what it IS, in fact, like. He's become almost apologetic, and why? Oh, roll on Something Borrowed, HERE'S WHY! He's IN LOVE. He's a lovesick puppy, thinking about wedding dresses and looking to settle down. If there's one thing we know about Ianto, you see, it's that he is wickedly loyal, faithful and, one would assume, MONOGAMOUS. Yet suddenly, since Adam, the relationship seems to have taken a turn into roleplaying toy-based sexamalympics. There's been no emotional connection since the kiss in TTLM. What bugs me is that Ianto is shown to be perfectly satisfied with this turn of events. It's almost like the Date Conversation never happened.
Now, I can buy that Jack is capable of loving more than one person. I can buy that Jack loves Gwen. I can even buy that Ianto is perfectly happy to know this and not care. That all makes perfect sense to me. What I can't buy is that Ianto has become such a lovesick boytoy, so impressed with Jack's avant garde sexual prowess, that he is happy to settle back into his role as office based shag, taking whatever nuggets of affection Jack sees fit too throw his way. And it's not Ianto's character making me think that that's how the relationship has progressed, it's Jack's, yet again. Jack, who makes these grandiose declarations about the nature of love to Gwen. Jack, who pines after a long dead wife. Jack, who we thought perhaps was a bit more flexible when it came to who and how many people he gives his heart to, who is QUITE OBVIOUSLY showing us that he believes in OMGONETRUELOVE, and between the lines quite blatantly showing us that Ianto isn't in the running. NO AFFECTION, throwaway lines about red caps and "doing Ianto", that's no longer a guy trying to hide the fact that he's in love with one of his subordinates, that's an omnisexual slut, not at all embarrassed about what he and the teaboy do with hockey sticks. AND I WOULD BE FINE WITH ALL THAT. If it weren't for the date conversation telling me that Ianto wants more, and Ianto's fawning in this episode blatanly telling us HE IS WICKED IN LOVE WITH JACK. Why is he settling for this? What have they done to my boy? Who said in the first episode that some fetishes should be kept to yourself? How many fetishes have he and Jack been broadcasting to the world since Adam? There's something so OFF in this relationship, and I think it's something you either see and hate or you just don't notice AT ALL.
One of the things that squicks me is Jack's flippancy about past conquests (all male, have we noticed yet??) and his obvious love for Gwen and DeadWife. It's almost like the implication is that while dabbling and sexual gymnastics is something Jack does with men, settling down is something he does with women. And Ianto and that dress? Just makes me feel like Jack hasn't yet let Ianto in on that fact, and the joke's on him. Ha ha.
NONE OF THE ABOVE MAKES ANY SENSE, I AM AWARE OF THAT, I JUST CAN'T PUT MY FINGER ON WHAT IS WRONG IN JANTOLAND. I JUST... HATE IT.
In Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, we were given a promising glimpse of Ianto-with-a-spine. He basically stated he wasn't interested in being Jack's part time office shag and wanted more, or no deal. Jack seemed to be au fait with this and looked to be pursuing the relationship. My little shipper heart went YAY, and that didn't really change, especially after To The Last Man, when I, along with everyone else in the world, pretty much saw what appeared to be a declaration of love from Jack. OMG WOW. Then... what the fuck happened?
I started to develop hate when Ianto said he and Jack 'dabbled'. While I could defend Jack's trying to hide the relationship based on what he said in Meat (he has an emotional investment, it makes you vulnerable, and he really shouldn't be forming EMOTIONAL bonds with his team, because it affects his abilities as their leader, yeah? Fine.), here, though, we suddenly have Ianto downplaying what I had assumed was an emotional attachment to Jack, and why? Dead Man Walking, again, shows Ianto on the defensive with regards to the relationship. "It's not like that", right, OK. Funnily enough, Ianto seems too unsure to expand and tell Owen what it IS, in fact, like. He's become almost apologetic, and why? Oh, roll on Something Borrowed, HERE'S WHY! He's IN LOVE. He's a lovesick puppy, thinking about wedding dresses and looking to settle down. If there's one thing we know about Ianto, you see, it's that he is wickedly loyal, faithful and, one would assume, MONOGAMOUS. Yet suddenly, since Adam, the relationship seems to have taken a turn into roleplaying toy-based sexamalympics. There's been no emotional connection since the kiss in TTLM. What bugs me is that Ianto is shown to be perfectly satisfied with this turn of events. It's almost like the Date Conversation never happened.
Now, I can buy that Jack is capable of loving more than one person. I can buy that Jack loves Gwen. I can even buy that Ianto is perfectly happy to know this and not care. That all makes perfect sense to me. What I can't buy is that Ianto has become such a lovesick boytoy, so impressed with Jack's avant garde sexual prowess, that he is happy to settle back into his role as office based shag, taking whatever nuggets of affection Jack sees fit too throw his way. And it's not Ianto's character making me think that that's how the relationship has progressed, it's Jack's, yet again. Jack, who makes these grandiose declarations about the nature of love to Gwen. Jack, who pines after a long dead wife. Jack, who we thought perhaps was a bit more flexible when it came to who and how many people he gives his heart to, who is QUITE OBVIOUSLY showing us that he believes in OMGONETRUELOVE, and between the lines quite blatantly showing us that Ianto isn't in the running. NO AFFECTION, throwaway lines about red caps and "doing Ianto", that's no longer a guy trying to hide the fact that he's in love with one of his subordinates, that's an omnisexual slut, not at all embarrassed about what he and the teaboy do with hockey sticks. AND I WOULD BE FINE WITH ALL THAT. If it weren't for the date conversation telling me that Ianto wants more, and Ianto's fawning in this episode blatanly telling us HE IS WICKED IN LOVE WITH JACK. Why is he settling for this? What have they done to my boy? Who said in the first episode that some fetishes should be kept to yourself? How many fetishes have he and Jack been broadcasting to the world since Adam? There's something so OFF in this relationship, and I think it's something you either see and hate or you just don't notice AT ALL.
One of the things that squicks me is Jack's flippancy about past conquests (all male, have we noticed yet??) and his obvious love for Gwen and DeadWife. It's almost like the implication is that while dabbling and sexual gymnastics is something Jack does with men, settling down is something he does with women. And Ianto and that dress? Just makes me feel like Jack hasn't yet let Ianto in on that fact, and the joke's on him. Ha ha.
NONE OF THE ABOVE MAKES ANY SENSE, I AM AWARE OF THAT, I JUST CAN'T PUT MY FINGER ON WHAT IS WRONG IN JANTOLAND. I JUST... HATE IT.
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no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 06:46 pm (UTC)I thought about "you" as Jack representing Torchwood, but he's always had Torchwood, so that doesn't really fly.
And, as I said in my own comment, brains does not preclude anyone from falling madly into inadvisable and doomed love. Smarts usually only makes it worse because you know what you're doing while you're doing it, and can't stop yourself.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 07:32 pm (UTC)Deep emotional attachment absolutely. How else would you feel about someone who has helped define your life? But I guess I just don't see it as proof of romantic love or being "in love." There are several people who have helped define my life and given it meaning and I would lay down my life more them, but I'm not in love with them.
And, as I said in my own comment, brains does not preclude anyone from falling madly into inadvisable and doomed love. Smarts usually only makes it worse because you know what you're doing while you're doing it, and can't stop yourself.
That I would not argue with. It is all to true. And while I don't feel this relationship has reach that point yet, there is clearly the potential.
I like your icon by the way.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 07:44 pm (UTC)It's really all about the balance of power/priority in a relationship, and I'm pretty sure as a culture, we all agree that when that balance shifts too far to one side or the other the relationship is no longer supportable or healthy (and, in obviously much more extreme circumstances, illegal).
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 08:14 pm (UTC)If you were aware of it and knew it would never change and said well fuck em'? Yes, that would be super icky.
I don't think Jack has any real idea of how messed up he acts sometimes or that he is behaving in a way that could be perceieved as dismissive. And unless Jack is forced to he has trouble showing any real emotion to anyone (Other than his serious fear of abandonment. That emotion is coming in loud and clear with Gwen and Owen). Jack is messed up and I think Ianto knows that Jack has a long way to go, but is willing to try and stick it out with him (for now). If the future holds no growth or change and Ianto starts to look miserable, but continues to put up with it, then that becomes unhealthy. I just think with all their baggage (as individuals and together) they are still in the very early stages of this relationship and neither of them have a clear definition of it.
And everything I'm saying here is me trying very hard to not let my little over-zealous fangirl take totally control who wants to just pop out and scream "Jack you Bastard! how can you not love and adore Ianto, and lay at his feet in worship everyday cause he is so pretty and awesome?" (she is very loud and has had faaaar too much sugar) cause I like to believe that the characters have more going on than just what appears at times and that they are capable of growing and changing. Time will tell, and if they turn out to be just flat caricatures, well, I won't be watching for very long.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 08:32 pm (UTC)Jack is smart enough to know how to act in front of people, regardless of baggage.
Like I said, a lot of what I'm feeling is pretty visceral, too, based on what I *want* to happen. But it's stuff like that bit at the end of "Meat" that really, really has me losing like for Jack. I would LOVE to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's just getting kinda weird.
hehe, I just watched that "Last Supper" scene from "Adam" again, and it just creeps me out/makes me laugh. How weird is that?! Jack, you are sooooooooooooo narcissistic.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 08:47 pm (UTC)I hear you. Some of it has been very annoying. I've been trying to bear in mind that Jack/Gwen was the original intention of the writers and since they've changed that (supposedly) they have to find closure, and that the season isn't over yet. The Owen arc took up a lot of time and then they had to marry Gwen off, but now that it's over we can hopefully move onward. Plus, Ianto seems happy (to me, and I know it's a matter of perspective). If that changes, then I'm letting the little, ranting, hyperactive fangirl loose!
I just watched that "Last Supper" scene from "Adam" again, and it just creeps me out/makes me laugh. How weird is that?! Jack, you are sooooooooooooo narcissistic.
Ha, ha! I don't think it's weird at all. It's a strange little scene.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 07:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 08:15 pm (UTC)