Comic con interview

[tencrush]

John Barrowman on season 4: "We gotta get Jack a new piece of ass."

Quite.


Link to interview, courtesy of forgiveninasong, here.

I don't really have any words left about the way what we were watching has been twisted beyond all recognition by those involved in making it. I really, honestly, just have no words left for this. I am completely talked out about my rage and my incredulity and my whatever else it is I've got that I can't find the words for anymore. I was watching a different show, dudes, a show with respect for the characters and the relationships and the world that was created and the messages that were sent. How did I let that happen? When did that happen? What a fucking joke that was. Ha ha.

It's no wonder I want to buy the man a pony, really. For fuck's sake, he's been through enough shit.

Comments

[tencrush]

Sorry, I call everyone "dude", or "d00d", I wasn't labelling your gender. I was saying that you were implying making out with EM would be a punishment and I'm not really down with that. I don't want this place turned into antigwenallies with all the remarks about her appearance.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

I see your point. I really don't like the character or the actress, but that's just me.

But honestly, do think JB would rather make out with GDL or EM?

[tencrush]

I wouldn't like to say. Seriously, I wouldn't. He's gay so you'd assume it's GDL, but he could secretly really be into bear bikers or something and GDL might not be anything even remotely like his type. On the other hand EM's a woman, but she might be exactly the sort of woman he'd get off with if he had to choose a woman to get off with. So, honestly, I really wouldn't like to say.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Watching the videos from the pre-COE cons, it looked like JB & GDL were very comfortable with each other. Not saying anything sexual but that they got along well. But now its "GDL, who?"

GDL hasn't said one negative word about the show, its storyline, how his character was treated and now, as the piece de resistance - his importance as an actor in the show being reduced to "the actor who left the show."

Guess we'll have to hope for a GDL tell all book someday.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Maybe they're trying to imply that it was really GDL's idea to leave so as to take the heat off of RTD & co. 'Cause really--"the actor who left the show"?? The actor who was written out of the show would be more accurate, JB.

[tencrush]

I really don't get that bit. I know GDL came out reasonably quickly and said he was not happy and didn't want to leave. Is he being punished for that, cause surely that's not exactly world shattering news from a guy in his position, careerwise?

[as1mplegirl.livejournal.com]

I think if he'd decided to leave the show they'd have said so straight away and categorically. It would have taken some of the heat off.

[ella-caramella.livejournal.com]

The only thing I can think of that he did wrong-ish is that he posted TEH SPOILER on his website (the thank you message) a week before CoE aired in the US.

If all TPTB are pissed at is this I really don't know.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Good point. Didn't they already try this already and the fans said, "Uh, don't think so."

Hmmm...wonder how much GDL could milk them for to toe the party line...even though he's been disinvited to the party. (Not saying he would, just contemplating).

Now I'm wondering if the negative publicity is a lot bigger than even we think - and RTD, JB, and Julie are running scared. Didn't some one point out that CoE DVDs had their price reduced twice on Amazon? And considering that the aftermarket is where you actually make your money, don't think the moneymen aren't looking at everything before they make a final decision.

Here's a transcript of an interesting piece that was on National Public Radio (kind of like BBC radio) on Monday. Its not a good time to be trying sell new shows for the US market.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=111145929


OK, I'm probably just projecting my own hopes that there's no TW4, but ya never know.

[tencrush]

Now I'm wondering if the negative publicity is a lot bigger than even we think.
I don't know, they seem pretty adamant about playing it down, everything said by the people still in the business of making this show seems to be about playing down the negative publicity, so I'm starting to think you might be right on that one and there's more of it about than we think. But where would this negative publicity be that we haven't noticed it? I mean, I know of the fan outcry, but on the whole, I feel like I'm in a bit of a minority in how awful I think CoE was to the show and the characters and how much of a hack job it was. I know of quite a lot of people who loved it. Are there more of me than I think? If so, where are they hanging out?

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Would you consider adding a new post - something like - where have you seen negative fan reaction to the show? Otherwise, any response is going to be verrryyyy long on the page.

[chasethesun.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, but I don't really post much in fandom, just lurk about a bit. I wish I liked COE, because it would be a lot easier to deal with Ianto getting killed off if it were in a brilliant piece of television or at the very least, something resembling the show that went before it. It was neither and that's disappointing. I thought watching it again after I'd stopped being sad about Ianto would give me more distance to appreciate it. It gave me distance but I appreciated it even less.

[tencrush]

Yeah. I mean, now that my actual initial grief at losing Ianto has passed (and I was expecting that, but I'm a big girl, I'll get over character death after a while) I just rewatch it and see a seriously shit piece of television that had nothing to do with the show we were watching in s1 and 2.

[chasethesun.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much it. He threw away 2 seasons worth of canon for 5 episodes on BBC1 featuring Torchwood in a cameo role.
Fair enough, that's his prerogative. Sticking Torchwood on the title card wasn't enough to convince me it was any better than Bonekickers though.

[tencrush]

DON'T YOU DARE DISRESPECT BONEKICKERS IN THIS JOURNAL.

That's just going too far.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

The only "major" negativity I've seen--outside of a NY Times review (I think) and someone posting about a drop in DVD sales--is on AfterElton, but I don't know how influential that would really be. Most places, anybody says anything negative and they get beaten down.

[tencrush]

Even on AfterElton, given the bias of the reporting, the comments seemed to me to be about even in the awful-brilliant stakes. So why are they going through so much trouble to downplay somehting that's virtually nonexistent anyway? And what's with the weirdness around Gareth?

Bah, I'm feeling conspiracies, I'm going to bed.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Lose half your devoted audience in favor of gains in first time viewers with no loyalty to the show? Probably not what they were hoping to show the advertisers.

Sweet dreams!

[satanassa.livejournal.com]

I've just come from Shakesville blog (which is a US blog I love to read) where they had an open thread on CoE, and the original poster just seemed blind to the gratuitous queer-baiting and the completely unnecessary 'Filipino child' remark from the series. It was strange to me because this blog is supposed to be a safe space for lgbtq, feminists, racial minorities, disabled people, etc. But then it occurred to me that maybe the BBCA version of CoE had some dialogue blanked out, so maybe they didn't see it like we did over here.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Believe it or not, there's been a fair amount on the BBCA discussion boards. And suprisingly, they haven't taken any of the comments down. A particularly good discussion concerns the ratings. Whether 1.4 Million (which is huge for BBCA is really good when compared to other stations viewer numbers for sci-fi.

Other boards include discussions of specific plot holes, anger at the BBC, why CJ is a god/douche bag, etc.

It looks like opinion is running about 50%/50%. On their own boards. That can't be what they were hoping for.

[ella-caramella.livejournal.com]

You want negative?

There is this article on After Elton that is about comparing Buffy to TW on who did a better job at killing off the gay character:

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2009/7/buffy-versus-torchwood

with a lot of comments from people hating CoE, but there are also negative reaction posts to possibly every article from ep 4 onward, always on AE.

Same thing with the comments on Digital Spy (several articles from ep 4 on).

On the BBC America forum there are several threads all with the same upset kind of reaction - someone was even asking if there are any 'non haters' out there :)

The EW interview with RTD got a big bunch of negativeness, but that was mainly directed at RTD for being an arse to the fans.

And even on the IMDB message board there are some.

Oh, here's another piece (not of arse, sorry) on AE, about S4 and fans not watching without Ianto, with a poll

http://www.afterelton.com/blog/lylemasaki/torchwood-gets-a-fourth-season-but-will-janto-fans-tune-in-ianto-jones-captain-jack-harkness

Hope this helps.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

And what's most interesting is that many of the poster on After Elton pointed out that they chose the Won't watch w/o Ianto choice because it was the only 'won't watch' choice.
Basically they wanted a 'won't watch cause it wasn't TW/it was crap" or won't watch cause RTD is an asshat."

I'm not surprised that some of the gay/lesbian sites are pretty positive about the show in their articles. (The comments, uh, not so much). As openly gay men, RTD and JB are very admired by their own community. There are an awful lot of people in movies and TV that are still in the closet (particularly in Hollywood). So I can see where you'd be tempted to overlook flaws when its one of your own, and there aren't a whole of you aren't there.

Every racial, religious, social group does this when they are first gaining a foothold in politics, business, whatever. You know a group is well represented when there is no hesitation to disagree with one of your own.

But the G/L/TG communities are no where near that point at least in the US.

[woani21.livejournal.com]

Actually I believe that an increasing number of posters are calling for Russell's nomination to the 'Asshat of the Week Awards.' I'd vote for him and it seems that a lot of other posters would as well, but who knows if AfterElton would ever allow him to be nominated.

[ella-caramella.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I'm spamming your journal, but have you seen this entry on savecoffeeboy?

http://community.livejournal.com/savecoffeeboy/151063.html

It's an interesting read, and as I saw your post the other day about this same community and knew that you wanted to write something about the subject of the 'latent homophobia' in CoE, I thought it might interest you.

[(Anonymous)]

sorry I don't have a livejournal yet! I have watched torchwood from the start, but I didn't like COE. I love the show, but I don't buy the merchandise or go to conventions , I won't be watching the next series, without the character of Ianto I'm just not interested anymore, all the good characters are gone! There are alot of people just like me. Dorothy ( runs a chocolate shop in jersey)