How they fixed my Janto, dudes...
Apr. 2nd, 2008 11:07 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tencrushWow, did you see me do a 180 when it comes to Jack/Ianto at some point in time during the past few weeks? Funny, that.
As you well know, I had a real problem with the portrayal of the Jack/Ianto relationship, primarily from Meat up and until Something Borrowed, with Something Borrowed specifically causing me much in the way of flailing and gnashing of teeth. Now, I have to start off by saying I never subscribed to the oh-poor-woobie-Ianto-getting-used-as-a-sextoy school of thought, I've always thought Ianto was more than capable of looking after himself, and he never struck me as being particularly unhappy with the relationship as it stood. In fact, it was precisely the fact that Ianto was happy in the relationship, even though the relationship seemed oddly superficial and carnal, that I found not worrying, just... odd, given Ianto's attitude in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang about office relationships and such. Anyway, I went into all the things I thought were wrong with the relationship, and if you don't know what they were, feel free to read up here, here, and here. It'll give you something to do, anyway. So, that was me after Something Borrowed.
I kind of like to pretend that FootR didn't happen AT ALL. In terms of characterisation that was pretty much a NON STORY, kudos to the actors for at least giving us a nice bit of one-on-one interaction that seemed quite intimate and relaxed, because there was not a lot in the text to go on. Then, a funny thing happened, and that thing was Adrift. I watched Adrift and SUDDENLY EVERYTHING WAS OK. I couldn't quite put my finger on why, it certainly wasn't anything to do with the sex scene, because oddly, I felt like the sex scene didn't really do much to sway my point of view on the issue IN EITHER DIRECTION, good or bad. They were doing something sexy, I knew they were doing that sort of thing already, so... yeah, whatever. And YET, I was perfectly happy with their relationship, suddenly everything was alright with the world. I had to rewatch it a few times to work out why. And it's subtle, and not completely obvious on first viewing (Not to me, anyway, I'm televisually slow. I blame the children.) It's all to do with Ianto's subterfuge for me, and realising what what Ianto does there implies about what Ianto is thinking, what Ianto's opinion is on the subject, and what that means in terms of the interaction he has with Jack in this episode. See, it's not until Gwen gets the GPS that we realise Ianto is deliberately going behind Jack's back, BECAUSE HE DISAGREES WITH JACK. He thinks it would be better to just tell Gwen and get it over with. Now this fact, the fact that Ianto and Jack don't see eye to eye on this matter, is not a fact that you're really aware of in a PREVIOUS scene, the scene where Ianto says he'll talk to Jack after Jack has FLOUNCED out of a meeting like a big gay diva because Gwen doesn't agree with him. In fact, it's only when you watch it again, knowing what you know about what Ianto's opinion is on the matter (I'll leave out the very obvious fact that IANTO KNOWS ABOUT FLAT HOLM, folks, because that's quite something in and of itself, but okay.) that you begin to understand what Ianto and Jack are talking about in the corridor after Jack has left the meeting. Ianto thinks Jack should tell Gwen. And far from storming off in a big flouncy strop like he did with Gwen when she disagreed with him, Jack stands there and listens to Ianto. Ianto puts his views to Jack, Jack still disagrees and makes that clear and leaves, calmly. Oh, wow, I realised on about the third viewing, that was them having an argument. How brilliant is that? The fact that Jack hears Ianto out, the fact that Ianto goes to Jack in the first place and everyone seems to find this perfectly acceptable, the whole interaction in terms of the two of them and the rest of the team suddenly seemed so natural and comfortable and relaxed that it threw a switch for me and I finally settled into the idea that yes, there's a relationship here and everything's okay. So, yeah, for me, that's what did it.
I still maintain that it all went a bit pear-shaped in the middle there. There's subtle when it comes to directing and body language and characterisation and then there's FUCKING SUBTLE. It's not so much that I have a problem with subtle, it's the fact that there were, at the same time, very many UNSUBTLE things going on. I find it interesting that they made the choice to be subtle about the emotional side of their relationship and unsubtle about the sexual side, obviously they could have just as easily gone the other way, but the other way doesn't provide for enough jokes about inside leg measurements, I suppose. And I think Jack/Gwen was played and written BADLY, I think it distracted a lot of people and caused a lot of unnecessary flailing. (And, God I wish Barrowman was just a little bit shinier at acting, in general.)
Looking back, yeah, it's all wonderfully done, I even remember mentioning when Meat aired, how much I liked the framing in that Jack/Gwen scene with Ianto permanently in the background, because, honestly, it's not that I'm blind to these things, it's just that they ARE subtle. (And I'm not the sort of person who watches episodes that many times, I've got two kids, I'm busy, I've seen every episode maybe three times, tops, even those from Season One. Maybe that's part of the problem.) So there you go. I'm happy about Jack/Ianto, I'm happy about the fact that my wish when I said weeks ago "I hope they really are just being SUBTLE as opposed to RAPE-SPRAY-STUPID" came true and they were just being subtle. I'm not going to apologise for starting or exacerbating the debate or whatever it was that I did, because I stand by what I said: it went a bit flaily and pear-shaped in the middle and Jack looked like a bit of a dick. But it's all good now. I can sleep at night.
And I still maintain there were too many kink jokes. It makes me happy that they seem to SUBTLY, again, hinting at Ianto being The Kinky One, but still. Stop joking about kink, kink is serious business, yo. Don't mess with kink or I'll come looking for you, and I've got a ball gag and a lovely little suede flogger with your name on it, don't think that I don't.
As you well know, I had a real problem with the portrayal of the Jack/Ianto relationship, primarily from Meat up and until Something Borrowed, with Something Borrowed specifically causing me much in the way of flailing and gnashing of teeth. Now, I have to start off by saying I never subscribed to the oh-poor-woobie-Ianto-getting-used-as-a-sextoy school of thought, I've always thought Ianto was more than capable of looking after himself, and he never struck me as being particularly unhappy with the relationship as it stood. In fact, it was precisely the fact that Ianto was happy in the relationship, even though the relationship seemed oddly superficial and carnal, that I found not worrying, just... odd, given Ianto's attitude in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang about office relationships and such. Anyway, I went into all the things I thought were wrong with the relationship, and if you don't know what they were, feel free to read up here, here, and here. It'll give you something to do, anyway. So, that was me after Something Borrowed.
I kind of like to pretend that FootR didn't happen AT ALL. In terms of characterisation that was pretty much a NON STORY, kudos to the actors for at least giving us a nice bit of one-on-one interaction that seemed quite intimate and relaxed, because there was not a lot in the text to go on. Then, a funny thing happened, and that thing was Adrift. I watched Adrift and SUDDENLY EVERYTHING WAS OK. I couldn't quite put my finger on why, it certainly wasn't anything to do with the sex scene, because oddly, I felt like the sex scene didn't really do much to sway my point of view on the issue IN EITHER DIRECTION, good or bad. They were doing something sexy, I knew they were doing that sort of thing already, so... yeah, whatever. And YET, I was perfectly happy with their relationship, suddenly everything was alright with the world. I had to rewatch it a few times to work out why. And it's subtle, and not completely obvious on first viewing (Not to me, anyway, I'm televisually slow. I blame the children.) It's all to do with Ianto's subterfuge for me, and realising what what Ianto does there implies about what Ianto is thinking, what Ianto's opinion is on the subject, and what that means in terms of the interaction he has with Jack in this episode. See, it's not until Gwen gets the GPS that we realise Ianto is deliberately going behind Jack's back, BECAUSE HE DISAGREES WITH JACK. He thinks it would be better to just tell Gwen and get it over with. Now this fact, the fact that Ianto and Jack don't see eye to eye on this matter, is not a fact that you're really aware of in a PREVIOUS scene, the scene where Ianto says he'll talk to Jack after Jack has FLOUNCED out of a meeting like a big gay diva because Gwen doesn't agree with him. In fact, it's only when you watch it again, knowing what you know about what Ianto's opinion is on the matter (I'll leave out the very obvious fact that IANTO KNOWS ABOUT FLAT HOLM, folks, because that's quite something in and of itself, but okay.) that you begin to understand what Ianto and Jack are talking about in the corridor after Jack has left the meeting. Ianto thinks Jack should tell Gwen. And far from storming off in a big flouncy strop like he did with Gwen when she disagreed with him, Jack stands there and listens to Ianto. Ianto puts his views to Jack, Jack still disagrees and makes that clear and leaves, calmly. Oh, wow, I realised on about the third viewing, that was them having an argument. How brilliant is that? The fact that Jack hears Ianto out, the fact that Ianto goes to Jack in the first place and everyone seems to find this perfectly acceptable, the whole interaction in terms of the two of them and the rest of the team suddenly seemed so natural and comfortable and relaxed that it threw a switch for me and I finally settled into the idea that yes, there's a relationship here and everything's okay. So, yeah, for me, that's what did it.
I still maintain that it all went a bit pear-shaped in the middle there. There's subtle when it comes to directing and body language and characterisation and then there's FUCKING SUBTLE. It's not so much that I have a problem with subtle, it's the fact that there were, at the same time, very many UNSUBTLE things going on. I find it interesting that they made the choice to be subtle about the emotional side of their relationship and unsubtle about the sexual side, obviously they could have just as easily gone the other way, but the other way doesn't provide for enough jokes about inside leg measurements, I suppose. And I think Jack/Gwen was played and written BADLY, I think it distracted a lot of people and caused a lot of unnecessary flailing. (And, God I wish Barrowman was just a little bit shinier at acting, in general.)
Looking back, yeah, it's all wonderfully done, I even remember mentioning when Meat aired, how much I liked the framing in that Jack/Gwen scene with Ianto permanently in the background, because, honestly, it's not that I'm blind to these things, it's just that they ARE subtle. (And I'm not the sort of person who watches episodes that many times, I've got two kids, I'm busy, I've seen every episode maybe three times, tops, even those from Season One. Maybe that's part of the problem.) So there you go. I'm happy about Jack/Ianto, I'm happy about the fact that my wish when I said weeks ago "I hope they really are just being SUBTLE as opposed to RAPE-SPRAY-STUPID" came true and they were just being subtle. I'm not going to apologise for starting or exacerbating the debate or whatever it was that I did, because I stand by what I said: it went a bit flaily and pear-shaped in the middle and Jack looked like a bit of a dick. But it's all good now. I can sleep at night.
And I still maintain there were too many kink jokes. It makes me happy that they seem to SUBTLY, again, hinting at Ianto being The Kinky One, but still. Stop joking about kink, kink is serious business, yo. Don't mess with kink or I'll come looking for you, and I've got a ball gag and a lovely little suede flogger with your name on it, don't think that I don't.
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Date: 2008-04-03 05:14 am (UTC)