That big Janto debate, in summary, then...

[tencrush]

Thank everyone for jumping into my debate/ramblings about Jack/Ianto, just a point or two to clarify and summarise:

• I don't have a problem with Gwen, or Jack being in love with or loving Gwen. I don't think it detracts from his relationship with Ianto and I don't think Ianto is some poor naive lamb who is hurt by Jack looking at or loving other people. I'm pretty sure Ianto realises that getting involved with Jack could mean entering into a polyamorous relationship, and I assume that in entering into a relationship with Jack, Ianto accepts that. I've never thought of Ianto as naive or stupid. He knows what he's doing.



• The problem I do have, is in the fact that they are SHOWING us Jack MOONING over Gwen, and they are showing us ABSOLUTELY NO MOONING over Ianto. In doing that, whilst slowly showing us that Ianto is PRETTY DAMNED IN LOVE (The speech in Adam, the coming out scene this episode, Ianto is getting pretty invested into this relationship, if you hadn't noticed), they're not showing ANY OF THE SAME from Jack. Now Jack already is Ianto's boss, he's older than Ianto, and, this being Ianto's first guy-guy thing, Jack is VASTLY MORE EXPERIENCED as well. As they start to show us how emotionally involved Ianto is, with no reciprocation on that level from Jack, the relationship becomes more and more uncomfortable to watch because the power is starting to shift towards Jack so heavily. Harassment. I had this issue with them in season 1, as well. That niggling feeling I couldn't quite shift that Jack was manipulating Ianto with sex, because Jack figured it would be advantageous to redirect Ianto's obviously passionate loyalties towards Jack, by means of his magickal futuristic cock.



• Or, to put it another way, and quote one of the commenters on the previous post: "isn't sleeping with someone who has way deep emotional feelings for you, which you clearly don't reciprocate as intensely, still pretty icky?" No matter which way you look at it, yeah, that's a little bit icky.



• And to quote myself, another general niggle I have is this: The playing up of their sex games is starting to detract from any possible hints of depth to the relationship and is distracting me to the point of annoyance. Jokes are one thing, kink is fine, but you can take things too far, and that point has more or less been reached, unless you give me some depth to balance it out.



• On a seperate note, I have never once said Gareth David-Lloyd is fat. I've been making pie jokes for a few weeks, because he's obviously gained a few pounds and he's one of those people unfortunate enough to have any weight gain, no matter how slight, show up around the face area, so he needs to watch himself. I only say it out of love and I would still happily FUCK HIM UNTIL HE BREAKS. Just to make that clear.



• I do have a serious observation to make about Jack's implied attitude of fucking the men and marrying the women, but I'll probably save it for torch_wood or torchwood_meta or something, because it's something that seems to be becoming an issue with a lot of people.

Thank you all for listening.

Comments

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Arguably, Jack's uncharacteristically shy request for a date is mooning. It works, leaving Jack with no reason to moon over Ianto, since they are obviously swinging from the Hub's chandeliers whenever the others aren't looking. :-)

ETA: Reading through the comments here, it occurs to me that their scene in To The Last Man is about Jack and Ianto's feelings for each other, but the kiss has overwhelmingly and unsurprisingly grabbed our attention and the actual dialogue has been forgotten. :-)

[tencrush]

I know what you're saying about TTLM, and in the original post-of-a-bajillion-comments, I said quite clearly that my gripe is with the fact that since then the relationship seems to have become one of amusing kink and not much else. I think Jack's mooning and vehement emoting at Gwen, even in front of Ianto, have made people start to play down the importance of that scene and subsequent kiss, and start to see Jack as a bit of a tacky asshole who's trying to have and eat an awful lot of cake.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

In short, MOAR JACK/IANTO PLS. I am with you 100%.

[tencrush]

Either way is fine by me, either they're just having oodles of kinky sex, in which case, SHOW ME THE FUCKFEST NOW, or there's more to it that that, in which case, SHOW ME THERE'S MORE TO IT AND THEN SHOW ME THE FUCKFEST. Stop hinting and hinting and hinting at me and show me SOMETHING.

Preferably involving a fuckfest.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

WE WANT MOAR

WE NEED MOAR

[tencrush]

Oh, K8, always with the big letters. The least you could do is type FUCKFEST while you're at it.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Someone in the anon meme somehow worked out how to post in LJ with characters about size 400. I am awed and must discover the secret.

.. wait, it's so obvious!

FUCKFEST

[tencrush]

The impact of the word is lost when you have to scroll across the page to read it. Sometimes less is more, Kate. :(

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

*blames your layout*

[tencrush]

Yah, sorry, I'll set it to be 1 BILLION PIXELS WIDE next time.

I wroted all this CSS myself, you know. I made the picshur of Ianto out of string and bits of cabbage.
ETA: And pie.