So...

[tencrush]

before you all get me totally wrong here, I didn't hate The End of Time, far from it. I didn't LOVE it either.

The interaction between Ten and Wilf was MAGIC. It was wonderfully written, heartwarming, tragic, etc etc, I loved every minute of it, including the end, the knocking, the regeneration, all of it. Kudos, Russell, that was beautiful stuff. The scene between the Doctor and the Master, again, great things going on there (if a little OTT homoerotic, no, I'm not a huge Doctor/Master fan, guys, sorry) but Simm especially put in a stellar performance (certainly given his cringeworthy madness in part one) The problem I have with Russell as a sci-fi writer is the fact that he does this sort of drama quite well, but he forsakes everything sci-fi for the sake of playing it out. The actual plot gets handwaved or downright forgotten about in favour of some superbly written dramatic scenes. I STILL don't quite know what happened to the Master. He served his dramatic purpose and poof, he was gone. His plot to change everyone into himself, poof, literally handwaved better by the shouty Timothy Dalton. Donna's head exploding, being pursued by many Masters, POOF, all better, fixed that for you. MAGIC! It's ALL setup and there's NEVER any payoff, plotwise. For me, it all smacks too much of string-pulling, and I find Rusty's Hand Of God incredibly EVIDENT when watching, I find it hard to be ENGROSSED, because of the reduction of the characters to plot puppets when it suits, when it's convenient. Pick them up, drop them into this scene, as great as this scene may be, it bugs me when the mechanics of writing are on display to this extent. Don't need that anymore, screw it up, bin it, Naismith (and that incestuous weirdness with his daughter?? Never mind, let's just drop it), the Master, the aliens, done with them, let them fall by the wayside. It's sloppy, nothing ever goes anywhere. But then that scene with Wilf in the radiation box (What was the radiation story again? Where did it come from and why? Doesn't matter, handwave, it's just a convenient writing tool, again, to drive us towards the dramatic event. Don't let that bug you, let it lie.) it was beautiful, it was a great, pointless way to regenerate, yes, it even makes the Doctor jumping from a spaceship, through a roof and living fall into place, because in the end, it's this one little silly, stupid thing that makes him have to leave. Beautiful.

And then we get to the self-indulgent end. AWWWFUCK RUSSELL. WHY?? ("I don't want to go," Rusty? Really? Way to make him A DICK again in every sense. FAIL.) Why does Ten deserve rewards? Why does Ten deserve a bigger, better, more sickly sentimental sendoff than any other Doctor? Oh, that's right, Rusty, because in your mind, and, crucially, in Ten's mind, Ten is a MORE AWESOME AND SPECIALER DOCTOR than any Doctor that has come before or will come after. And, of course, the problem there arises if you're the sort of person who desn't share that opinion of Ten. If you think he's, say, a bit of a dick. Because when you think that, you think Ten's special goodbyes are just self-congratulatory wank on Russell's part. Which is where the episode fell down for me. The whole premise of these goodbye scenes existing was, for me, a step too far in the backslapping department. For a moment, I thought Who had suddenly segued into Who Confidential and we were watching a montage of Ten set to, I don't know, a Coldplay song. Or James Blunt, or something. And then, of course, there was the actual content of the scenes. The Rose one, funnily enough, was fine, and actually kind of sweet. The Sarah Jane one was okay too. The rest? Nah. Jack gets a new piece of ass to make him forget about THE KILLING HIS OWN GRANDSON WITH THE BLOOD POURING OUT OF HIM AND SHIT. Yeah... tasteful. Martha and Mickey get married. Yeah, because they're both black and stuff, right? She was happily engaged, but let's handwave that for a moment and set them up for no reason. Because otherwise we'd be leaving Mickey UNATTACHED. And, of course, the lesson in all of this, yes we'll get to Donna in a minute, is that UNATTACHED IS THE MOST PATHETIC AND WORTHLESS THING TO BE IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Sorry, single peeps out there, you're not really happy until you're married (if you're straight). Or fucking a guy in uniform (if you're gay, because let's face it, Captain Jack is mostly gay and not particularly omnisexual at all. Except when he's marrying wimmins because wimmins need COMMITMENT, not like sailors, sailors don't need that girly shit.) So, anyway, yeah, Donna gets a happy end, not by getting back her mind or her agency or by being allowed to be her awesome self, but by being married off and being given moneys. In the end, that's the happiest end anybody could ever want.

Hmmmm. Up to the faily goodbyes I was quite liking The End of Time. Then those things happened and I hated it. But the Eleven came and I LOVE HIM SO MUCH ALREADY. Dudes... he has legs! Excellent.

Okay, so my verdict's a bit incoherent, but no more incoherent than the episodes, surely.

Comments

[siege-ofcahoots.livejournal.com]

I was very 'meh' about Eleven but that bit with his self checking and the kissing his legs - I'm going to give him a try. Looks like he has a joie de vivre DW could use these days.

[as1mplegirl.livejournal.com]

Liked Wilf and the Doctor / Wilf interactions and the Doctor/Master ones, not so sure about the Master on his own. Liked the bit where 10 realises that he's still alive after all the Time Lord stuff and there's a repeated four knocks and you see Wilf's stuck in the booth and 10 sacrificing himself for him. Interested to see 11 (especially the I'm a girl bit). I suspect "Geronimo" will annoy me though. Rest, I could have done without.

I don't think RTD is a good scifi writer, he may be better in other fields where the type of drama places limits on him that the SciFi genre doesn't and which he and others seem incapable of putting on himself. I've only really seen Queer as Folk that he's done.

His endings suck but he can do good build up unfortunately he doesn't seem to have done that in this instance either.

[iko.livejournal.com]

I'm of the opinion that RTD's best work is still Bob and Rose.

[bandgeek01.livejournal.com]

I just want to know why everyone is thinking 10 is in a current time when he is visiting the other companions, we have no idea how much into the future or past, it was. Martha and Mickey could have been 10 years later, for all we know Tom could have been killed by the Daleks at the end of S4. We have no idea what caused her to go rogue either. Same with Jack. We don't know, we know it's after CoE because Jack's out there in some planetary bar/nightclub whatever. We only know he went backwards in time to see Rose before she meets nine.

[tencrush]

I think that's purely because up until the Rose scene, which is the last one, we have no reason to believe otherwise. We don't have any context for any of them, apart from Luke's age, and Martha's new hair, so it's kind of straightforward to assume they take place, more or less, reasonably shortly (a few months?) after we last saw each of the characters in question.

[fairest-stars.livejournal.com]

This may seem a strange question, as I've never commented here before, but what did your kids think of it? I read an article the other day - here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6904999/Doctor-Who-BBC-One-review.html) - in which the journalist seemed to forgive all the shortcomings of Who simply because his son enjoyed it.
Not sure what I'm trying to say here, except, well Doctor Who is supposed to be for kids, isn't it? I just was curious to know your thoughts, because I have neither a child nor a much younger sibling to share the experience with.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

I can sort of see that thinking because kids are obviously more likely to respond positively to the silly stuff than any of the weightier issues so I can see cutting the show some slack for that. But on the other hand it is possible to create a fun, even at times silly show that also says something worthwhile underneath it that appeals to kids. Unfortunately, while I saw a lot of silly in these episodes I didn't see much substance. The first episode was almost all build up and not particularly good build up at that and the second episode seemed to treat those storylines like an after thought or something that just needed to be got over asap so that they could get to the real point of it all - the long, wallowing goodbyes. I think it was nice that Ten got to say goodbye and it was nice to see the old companions one last time, but considering they've been trying to sell us on the tragedy of his dying/ regeneration for the past three episodes it did kill the momentum and sense of that having him basically wondering around the universe searching out old friends for twenty minutes.

But I think Dr. Who is supposed to be a 'family' show to be enjoyed by kiddies and adults alike anyway, not just a kiddie show. It does seem to fall into that time slot.

[tencrush]

I've been told by various anon wankstains that I should prewatch Who to make sure it's suitable for my five and a half year old. Like that's going to happen when it's advertised all over the place and it's fucking on. It's not like I can send him to his room for over an hour while mummy and daddy watch and then download it to show to him later. This is beside the point but still. My kid thought it was VERY EXCITING, especially the beginning half hour or so when there was lots of running around and spaceships and such. When it calmed down, after what he called "The Star Wars guys" came and went, he started whining "When is the Doctor going to CHAAANNNNGEE????", so his reaction was pretty much on par with most of the adults in the house and indeed everywhere else in the world.

[fairest-stars.livejournal.com]

Lol, what? It's just STUPID to think that you should have to prewatch it. That's not fair. For goodness sake, they had DT introducing the episode. They couldn't have made it more obvious that it was A BIG DEAL if they tried!

I did like the idea that ten would get the chance to say goodbye to everyone, and sort of bring the whole thing to a close, I liked the Rose scene, and Sarah Jane's, but I think the other two (Jack's and Martha's) were in bad taste. For now, I'm sticking with the idea that the doctor went way, way into the future and Jack had SUFFERED. I like Alonso, I really do, but really Russell?? Having read The Writer's Tale, I know just how besotted he is with Tovey, and how much he wanted him in the final episode of series 4. That whole scene just seemed incredibly gratuitous, and didn't make much sense to me.
Maybe, like you say, those last 20 minutes or so would have been more appropriate in a Confidential. They would play their Coldplay song, and then Russell could tell us all these 'wonderful' things about Jack and Martha and Mickey. It sure would make it easier to pretend it never happened.

[magic-lilybean.livejournal.com]

LOLOL. My daughter is 6 so this is the first Who change she's old enough to react to and remember. She's pretty upset.

Her dad watched it with her before sending her home with me, and she was uncustomarily whiny and irritable. When I asked her WTF? she said she'd "just watched a really sad movie."

I said, "Doctor Who? Really?"

"Well, he DIED."

"Honey, it's sci fi. He didn't die, he just turns into the new guy."

"But I liked him the way he WAS."

So she was mopey for like an hour. I, meanwhile, still haven't seen it.

[iko.livejournal.com]

I thoroughly support the whole "Doctor criticizes the actor's appearance after regenerating" bit. Hilarious!

(And I love how much love there is on my flist for Matt Smith's Doctor. S5 is going to be awesome!)

[tencrush]

I liked the bit about his chin.

[takenatwork.livejournal.com]

I didn't like what happened with the Timelords and the 30 second explanation didn't make it any better, but I'm an old fan. The Timelords deserved the whole two episodes just about them. Similarly, the Master has killed and watched millions of people and aliens suffer, and, yes, I've always hoped he'd find redemption, but a redemption from within himself, not one that seemed to suggest it wasn't really his fault, the Timelords did it to him. And then for him just to disappear..., didn't like that.

Russell did take on Doctor Who, to write it for a new generation of fans. I'm not sure if he finished it catering for them or just for the old fans. I'd be intrigued to know if the new fans understood it all.

He loves cross-posting stories between DW and TW, it saves him having to explain things. That little scene with Jack is effectively the opening scene of S4 of TW, so he won't have to deal with CoE in S4.

I didn't enjoy it, I have tried to, I've gone over it in mind, I've read people's comments, but I just didn't like it.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

I don't think the Time Lord stuff worked that much better even with 'New Who' eyes. They basically just came and went and didn't seem to serve much of a purpose or leave much of an impact. I suppose the one thing I can take from their appearance is that at least the Doctor seemed to acknowledge that they were mad, bad and too dangerous to be let loose on the universe, so maybe he'll feel less guilty, emo about killing them off, but I would have assumed that knowledge was why he killed them off in the first place. I guess not. At least it might mean a less tortured, angst ridden Doctor in the future.

And while I can buy into the idea of Jack seeking comfort in a warm body to deal with his grief over events in COE the shows track record in dealing with fallout/ aftermath by not really dealing with it does make me fear that Jack getting a new toyboy is about all the 'dealing' the show is going to do on this matter. And if that's the case then ugh.

[tencrush]

I didn't like the Timelords thing at all, and I'm not hugely knowledgeable on them, the old skool I've seen doesn't really feature them, but this whole power-mad genocidal we'll-kill-the-whole-universe thing I thought was hugely unpleasant and not what I had envisioned them as at all.

The Jack drink-and-a-fuck thing, while it didn't offend me on a OMG-but-he-WUVS-Iantoe!! level, I thought was so dismissive of CoE that it's left me certain I am not interested in watching a TW S4, the complete unwillingness on Davies' part to deal with the consequences of anyone's actions is just pathetic.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

I totally agree that whilst Russell is a good character writer, he's not a good sci-fi writer.

Someones said over at Gallifrey that because Martha and Mickey were originally going to be in Children of Earth, that could have been when we were meant to get 'romantic development' between the two characters.

[justinej.livejournal.com]

What was supposed to happen to them in CoE?

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

Apparently Russell has said that Martha was going to have Lois Hubbiba's role before she got a job with 'Law and Order' and go undercover like Lois did. And if you think about it, Martha would have been more skilled than Lois at getting passwords for Government computers etc. The idea that important passwords would be left laying around for all to see was a bit far fetched.

[loqia.livejournal.com]

UNATTACHED IS THE MOST PATHETIC AND WORTHLESS THING TO BE IN THE WHOLE WORLD. [...] marrying wimmins because wimmins need COMMITMENT

To be fair to RTD (why, gods, why), it's actually Moffat who's the one who happily goes around sprouting off about how the only thing women want out of life is to trap men into marriage (q.v. oh, just about every Who episode he's ever written).

I'm really unclear on why fandom thinks this guy is going to save Who. RTD is RTD, but Moffat is a raging misogynist. >_O

[tencrush]

I've never really read Moffat saying anything particularly sexist that wasn't hugely tongue in cheek or self deprecating, so I'm really not worried on that count, he's never written anything that seemed to me to be misogynist in any way, and that includes his comedies, I think he has a reasonable feel for women and writes women reasonably well. Jane from Coupling notwithstanding, but that was a fucking comedy. Maybe I just share his sense of humour and other people don't.

In general, I don't particularly care what people say in interviews, I care about what they show me on screen. Hence why I've always had a dislike for Russell, he says a lot about his brilliant ideas and character arcs and wondrous denouments, but I can't see those things when I watch, so as far as I'm concerned, he's talking shit and may as well shut up. I think Moffat's going to save Who because he's a much better writer than Russell. I don't know if he's a better showrunner, but he's certainly a better writer.

[meleth.livejournal.com]

Also, when did Mickey stop being useful and respected in another universe? I could have sworn he was in the other universe, being useful and respected.

Also, the episode may have occasionally managed to be a bit internally consistent, but everything was a horrible idea and shouldn't have happened. But hey, Rusty's gotten it out of his system, gotten his reward (because really, that was Rusty's reward, not 10's), and now we can move on to some creepy fucking monsters.

[eandh99.livejournal.com]

Journey's End, when Rose got Handy Mickey came back to his old universe, he and Martha and Jack leave the Tardis together. Mickey and Ten do an Obama fist-bump and everything. From that the Mickey/Martha twu-luv and marriage is born.

[(Anonymous)]

I can get with most of this. I pretty much agree. Especially the second paragraph. Except the not having a problem with Jack/ Midshipman Frame, because like many other I saw it coming a mile away, and Jack can't be all emo manpain when he loses people so often. Plus, to Rusty it really comes down to sex cures all, right?

Excuse me, I'm single so I need to go kill myself since I'm so worthless...*eyeroll*

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

FUUUUUUUUUUUU LJ login. FUUUUUUUUUUU!!!


Also, 11 is awesome. My second favorite Doctor is two. Five followed closely by two, and eleven has that two-ishness about him that I think I may adore.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

I really agree with you here. I felt so disappointed at the end. I was watching with two gay friends who hadn't seen DW since the Eccles series, and only a bit of Torchwood. They thought it was nonsense and kept saying how awful John Simm was, especially in the first part. Anyhow at the end they were really offended that the Dr set up a shag for Jack and that was it. They did feel that the message was that Jack is gay so therefore just needs a shag, where the others needed life saving. (Yes I know technically Jack isn't gay etc but they haven't seen enough of it to have an opinion on that)

I just felt why not have a proper DW adventure with Bernard Cribbens as the companion, and use all the companions in the story, in a proper way, not wasted, rather than this tacked on bit at the end, after a really lacklustre story.