TORCHSONG! Oh, the hilarity.

[tencrush]

Yeah, so I dip my toes back into fandom and find this whole Torchsong hilarity on Fandom Wank. There are things I could say about this particular wank but sisterelwood has already been succinct enough to sum up my thoughts in the comments:

If you don't want something talked about then don't fucking tell a convention full of strangers. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Additionally, anyone who dropped that much money on an event and didn't bother to understand the refund policy or make sure they were handing over money to a reputable group deserves to have their money stolen.

This whole thing isn't so much funny as a case study in fucking stupidity.

LOL. Comment of truth FTW!

Okay, actually I do have one or two things to say on the subject of Torchsong and -WAHEY!- John Barrowman. When do I ever not?

• There's a few comments at the anonmeme about John's behaviour, but I try not to read the anonmeme too much, if indeed at all, so I only skimmed over them. There was, however, a nice comparison somewhere between John Barrowman and a pedophile. Which was loltastic and very much to the point, the point being that this attitude of JB's of "I do special personal stuff for you convention guys! Stuff I don't do for ANYONE ELSE! Please keep it to yourself or they'll make me not do that special stuff anymore, so if you love me and want to be my special friend, you won't tell anyone about the special stuff we do together!" IS FUCKING CREEPY AND MANIPULATIVE AS FUCK. Seriously. CREEPY. In fact, I'm starting to think JB has some sort of narcissistic or histrionic personality disorder. I hope I didn't type that out loud just then.
  
  Really, though. Creepy. Creepy and weird, but mostly creepy.


• If John really wants to drag his non-celebrity other half and said other half's arse into the public eye, why doesn't he just do something REALLY tasteful like Celebrity Wife Swap or All Star Mr. and Mrs. or something like that? Maybe, now that the André's are splitting up, they could do a reality thing to replace Jordan and Peter Stateside on ITV 2. Or is it 3? (I mean, it's not like there's a Torchwood Season 4. We all know this.) It's obviously the sort of thing he's aiming for. TACKY!


• GDL uses Viagra? What drug habit is he compensating for, dudes? Answers on a postcard. (I'm guessing speed? Maybe coke?)

Crazy times, people. Crazy times.

Comments

[meleth.livejournal.com]

Oh god, poor Scott.

[santousha.livejournal.com]

Dude, we got hot pics out of it. I'm not complaining, at all.

[meleth.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you're glad.

[off_coloratura]

JB should be kept far, far away from conventions at all times.

And poor GDL. I chalk it up to the pressured expectations of celebrity.

[tencrush]

Not coke-induced floppiness, then? Yeah, alright, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[tigress35.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, I'm far from an expert on the effect on drugs on the peen, but alcohol is one of those no? He seems like a drinker... would explain the weight gain more than coke would, from my limited knowledge of the effects of various drugs on weight, no???

But hey, maybe all the above.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

I do feel sorry for Scott and I don't think John should encourage him to be in the public eye in any way, except for the more serious stuff like The Making of Me. Scott might be ok with his public behaviour at the time but not after he's had 24 hours to think it over. Then again, Scott might be even worse than John in real life, we just don't know.

I like John's comment that Jack's feelings for Gwen are sexual but what he feels for Ianto is "so much more" because I don't know whether to take him seriously or not. We'll have to wait and see.

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

The first Torchsong post I saw convinced me to bypass the rest. In it, the op kept answering comments with a phrase that basically amounted to: 'We con-goers may have to retroactively form a united front to cover this information (so I'm apologizing in advance for ever mentioning it).'

Wank was inevitable. (And if enough money is involved, it'll probably outlast TW itself - barring the announcement of a season 4.)

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

Not to say that JB doesn't occasionally hit my embarrassment squick, or that it isn't kind of stupid to do/say something in a more or less public space if you're really worried about it getting out, but I've got to disagree about the 'creepy and manipulative' thing. For one thing, no one is getting harmed, except possibly those who weren't there and don't get to see the pictures/videos/whatever, which is hardly 'harm' by any definition, and for another thing, it's not as if he has any kind of real leverage over his fans. So IMO the pedophilia comparison is completely inappropriate in just about any way.

And his other half is a grown man in his mid forties, who has been increasingly in the public eye over the last couple of years and seems fully capable of making his own decisions, so I think it's hardly more respectful to accuse JB of dragging him in front of that camera against his will...

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

It is kind of difficult to believe Scott JUST HAPPENED to innocently wander into shot in his cozzie.

You've summed up nicely why the child sexual abuse comparison is inappropriate. I'd add that abusers isolate their victims, they don't leave them with hundreds of other people with whom to discuss what took place! That said, it could still come across as creepy, but I think to decide that we'd need actual footage of the request, and not nth-hand accounts.

[hamsterfur.livejournal.com]

Yes, Scott is an adult man and I'm sure more than capable of making his own decisions and standing up for himself. I find it slightly disturbing there appears to be a subset of Scott fangirls (the fact there are Scott fangirls is bad enough) who like to treat him like an innocent lil baby or weaker in some way. It's very similar to the way some Jack/Ianto fans portray Ianto. Now we have woobie!Scott to go with woobie!Ianto. (Collect them all!)

[tencrush]

I find the fact that there are Scott fangirls just abhorrent. I just don't... it doesn't compute for me. But then, again, I think Barrowman sets himself up in such a way towards his fans that creates this false sense of intimacy and this illusion that it's normal and okay to be in on the details of your idol's relationship and love life and sexual antics, because being his fan somehow makes you his personal friend. It's really not normal in my book, I think it's really fucking weird.

[tencrush]

I have answered your comment here.

I never said Scott did anything against his will. I meant "dragging" in the loosest possible sense, I'm sure he's well aware of what he's doing. I just said I think it's tacky. Jordan-and-Peter style tacky.

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

(Apologies for the tl;dr, feel very free to skip)

I realise you didn't actually call him that - it's such a loaded comparison though, that it maybe should be avoided altogether, unless it's actually warranted.

Like others said, I'd have to hear what was actually being said, before I'd call it intentionally manipulative, but even then there's all kinds of... levels of emotional manipulation, conscious and unconscious, in almost all human interaction. If I'm being friendly to customers at work so that they like it here, and buy the book they want in our shop instead of another bookshop, even if I have to order it for them first, and so keep my job secure, am I being emotionally manipulative? I've occasionally given regular customers more of a discount when a book was a bit damaged than I would have given someone I've never seen before. I've even told them, a couple of times, not to tell my boss, though that was only half-serious, because it wouldn't actually have got me into much trouble. And while I try to be polite, friendly and helpful to everyone, there's stuff I'll do for regular customers, especially ones I like and are friendly (and occasionally bring chocolate, *g*), that I won't do for everyone. Is that being emotionally manipulative? Is that being emotionally manipulated? Or just human nature? And I'm not a born sales person by a very, very long way, that's just stuff one picks up after a while, even someone with very few social skills like me. And in a way JB, too, sells a product, and obviously to him interacting with people comes a lot easier and more natural than it does to me, so I guess a certain level of... if you want to call it that, manipulation, is inevitable. But if there no harmful intent, and no actual harm done, I don't really see a problem.

Now personally (but this is coming from someone who's never been to a con, so my perception might be skewed) the issue I have is with the basic concept of selling this kind of (pseudo)intimacy for money. I wasn't really a NIN fan any longer at this point, but I already hated it when TR did it with the (now, I gather, defunct) 'The Spiral' fanclub. On the other hand, if this is what people want, if it makes them happy (and it apparently does), who am I to judge. The vast majority of Barrowman fans are adults, so if they chose to honour his request, it's their choice. Doesn't have to be creepy manipulation. Maybe they want to feel special. Maybe they don't want to lose the fanservice. Maybe they just plain like him, which plenty of people seem to do, after all, and that outweighs the brief internet fame and the 483 comments they might get on livejournal for posting.

Which doesn't answer the question why he does it, I know. Now I realise that this is a very random guess, but... I was a bit of musical theatre fan once, for a while. Now I don't know how this is in the UK, but here in Vienna the interaction between the actors and the fans tended to be pretty personal. Maybe this is what he's used to and tends to forget that he has a very different fanbase now?

As for the Scott thing - it's mostly that I've read one too many 'Poor Scott' comment (see hamsterfur's comment above, which sums it up pretty well), and I kind of snapped - sorry it was at you.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

The "don't pass it on" thing is very odd, especially as regards stuff which is already public knowledge (such as the tree sex story, which is in the biog)... odd to the point where I suspect it's either:

- being misreported; for example, a (reasonable) request not to share audio or video of the interview getting blown up into a (strange) blanket request for silence

or:

- it's just some sort of legal disclaimer he's obliged to throw in.

[smirnoffmule.livejournal.com]

My strong hunch is it's just a thing he says, to engage his audience and create the illusion of intimacy, and create a buzz - because I find it really hard to believe he's naive enough to imagine an entire room full of hundreds of people are going to keep his secrets for him. Plus he told us a bit of "just between us!" stuff for at the Hub, and it wasn't actually secret stuff at all, just a few not-spoilers for s3, and in that situation was plainly a rhetorical device to hold our ccollective attentions.

Not that I think any less of him for doing that; it is actually his job in that sort of circumstance to be engaging to people at conventions.

Regarding misreported words, I don't know exactly what was said, and by whom, about what could and could not be recorded at this con since I didn't attend. I do, however, know a huge amount of the wank which surrounded the Hub was due to misreporting/misunderstandings of who had said what and why, so I'm inclined to suspect the same again, to a certain degree.

[takenatwork.livejournal.com]

I can't agree the fans 'deserved' to lose their money, but still it's a lesson learnt, never go to a con based around one person. Speaking of which, if there is a refund deadline on The Hub in October, they might want to give that a re-think.

I don't think John does anything 'off the cuff'. He's playing a game and it's up to the mostly adult fans whether they want to play it. If they choose to, that's their right. I'm with you though, I wouldn't play.

Being the wrong side of 50, I realise how much being a fan has changed. Then it was pure fantasy, you let your imagination fill in the gaps, now it has to be so real. Sad.

My interest this weekend was for Gareth. He's come in for some flak for his cons lately, so I'm pleased he did good. Whatever mistakes he makes, he learns and that's OK by me.

I've read your later post, but thought I'd comment to this one.

[tencrush]

Fans didn't deserve to lose their money, no, and they should be reimbursed for photo ops etc. that didn't take place, definitely. On the other hand, anyone willing to shell out 500 EARTH DOLLARS to an organisation with such shoddy webdesign skillz and such a hilariously cheap tv commercial really should be smart enough to read the fine print, especially as it's, as you say, a con revolving mainly around one person. Somebody actually paid 1400 dollars for a front row premiere ticket for this thing. 1400 DOLLARS. I want to feel REALLY SORRY for that person, but I can't help but laugh a little at the sheer stupid of that.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

I just assumed that the Viagra was taken recreationally. Some dick = good, more dick = better.

[tencrush]

I'm sure it was, but really, what sort of arsehole takes Viagra recreationally? Honestly, some people.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

He strikes me as the kind of guy who's game to try anything once.

[tencrush]

True. You'd think he'd pick a week when he didn't have to work to do so, though. Just in case he got a week-long monster erection or something. Which I have heard is immensely painful and unpleasant.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Doing it on a work night was silly.

At least he had the balls (heh) to show up to work like that instead of bailing out and holding up the schedule.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

I don't find JB asking people to keep things a secret creepy. It's just annoying. But probably just a rhetorical device, like smirnoffmule said. But also annoying how everyone attending went into lockstep and hasn't spilled the beans on the so-called super sekrit.

GDL - my first thought when I read the Viagra story was he was compensating for alcohol. I'm utterly ignorant of the ways and uses of Viagra, however, so don't know if that's something people actually do.

[tencrush]

I have no idea. I think if you're drunk enough to have the penis cease its normal erectile behaviour, you should probably steer clear of sex aids of the medicinal variety, lest you manage a quick fuck and finish it off by vomiting onto the fuckee. As it were.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

heh Good point.

No sign of GDL wearing hats at Torchsong, btw.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Thank goodness. Hats have been the ruin of many a fine career.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Alcohol was my other thought, behind my primary theory of "fun!". If it's the booze... dude, get a grip on the drinking. If it's the fun... dude, it may be fun, but drugs have been the ruin of many a fine career.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

Not sure whether to believe the Viagra story or not. Apparently the effects don't last for more than a few hours, otherwise people across the world would be arriving at work still on a high, as it were.

Not that I have any real knowledge of the product.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

I thought about going to this 'convention', but when I saw the price, I thought, gee the annual Dr. Who convention in Chicago is no where near as expensive and at least I'll know who is going to (allegedly) appear. One look at their pathetic web site told me all I needed to know. No list of panels, activities until the last minute.

Clearly, this was a Barrowman show with a few Torchwood guests thrown in. I'd love to hear him in concert - but a concert is held, well, in a concert venue. And no, we're not short of those in Chicago. And if the fan-girls are happy to have spent $500 bucks to basically see him on TV - hey its their money. But I know I'd be pretty pissed to have spent that kind of $ for a cabaret show and then not get it refunded when the headliner couldn't appear. But the organizers were smart, by making it a 'convention' with the 'guests subject to availability' they covered themselves pretty well.

I'm not blaming anyone for not appearing - this convention seems to have had the curse of the Weevils on it - but I hope that Barrowman will be a little more careful of who he does business with.

Two other items -
John - if he was driving while on painkillers (when he was supposed to be resting with his foot elevated)then he's an idiot. I really hope that's not true.

Gareth - Viagra - yep its too much alcohol. Not suprised since his idol is apparently Dylan Thomas.

Anyway, thanks for the reality-check. After reading all the squeeling fan-girl reports on the web, I was beginning to think (ok for like a nanosecond) that I should have spent the money