TORCHWOOD LOOOOVE

[tencrush]

Just tidied up and did the ole shrink/expand on my Friendslist. All of which served to remind me that I really must get a few things off my chest in that respect.

I'm not a fandom person. I've never considered myself to be a part of any "fandom", I'm actually kind of vague as to what the term encompasses. I don't go to conventions, I hardly ever read tie-in novels, I stay away from fanfiction unless I'm hugely bored and it promises to be A)hilariously funny or B)pornographic in the extreme. I hate RPS/F and I hate photomanips, I don't see the point of fanart and, seriously, I don't ship. (AhA! But what about Jack/Ianto? I hear you cry. Yeah, I love their bumsexual relationship, it pleases me. Mostly, it pleases me to analyse the way it's portrayed onna telly. If they break up tomorrow I will care not a jot. I enjoy viewing it as an outsider, and I like exploring the messages it's sending when it comes to televised canon gay relationships, because I think it's an important thing to look at. Apart from that, I'm kind of meh. Its existence gives me great luls, oh yes. But I don't ship it.) People tell me lately that I'm a big loud voice in Torchwood fandom. Really? Cool. You're talking to me, right? Umm... okay. I can go with that.

I recently dropped a few comms from my watchlist because I realised that I just don't read them. They were all Who-related. I've come to realise a few things about Who fandom, but the main thing is that I care not for the drama. Plenty of people do, and I'm not saying it's pointless or it's not something that other people should care about, but I have come to realise that I, personally, just don't care. I don't want to get involved, I don't want to bitch about people, I don't want to judge people based on who they ship, who they like, who their friends are, how old-skool or nu-skool they are, I just simply don't care. I don't care for wank, I don't read fandom_wank, I don't read who_anon, I don't read fandom_secrets because I simply do not care. And I'm not saying I'm above it or anything, far from it, I could easily participate because I can be quite the bitch if I want to be, I'm just saying I am not interested, I have other things I enjoy spending my time on more than reading about who hates whom and who is wrong about this, that or indeed the other. If you want to read my LJ and talk to me and do whatever, then please do, because I like talking to people. But seriously? Who fandom scares me, and I'm glad I'm not particularly involved in it. I love Who, I really do. I love all my friends who are into Who and consider themselves a part of Who fandom, I love writing and debating about Who, though I don't much anymore lately, but if someone were to tell me I were an actual part of Who fandom, I'd be just a bit taken aback.

Which brings me to the HAPPYBUBBLE that is Torchwood fandom. That thing I am apparently a part of. Guys? I LOVE YOU. Seriously. I'm getting all verklempt here, I haven't had this much fun talking to people about telly in years. And if there's bitching, I sure as hell am not aware of any. Oh, apart from that one time I think somebody bitched about me saying Ianto is fat. Well, up yours, I stand by my claim. Please, by all means, don't take this as an invitation to point out to me where there is possibly bitching, because I'll reiterate: I don't care. There is not a single person I have talked to on this journal in the past year that I would choose to bitch about. Disagree with, maybe, yeah, sure. But bitch about, no. You're all intelligent people with interesting opinions and ways of looking at things and vastly different life experiences and I think Torchwood peeps are a really great bunch. (So are Who peeps, don't get me wrong, but with Who I just feel slightly... outside looking in. Does that make sense? And I kind of like it that way.) So, yeah, if I have a voice in this fandom, I'm happy, because this fandom's actually pretty fucking cool. (I still think you should all join me in watching bone_kickers, but hey, who am I to tell you what to do? But you should. Really. It's a bad, bad show. Really bad.)

I'm sure I had a point of some sort. I don't recall what it was. Umm... moar gay sex on my big gay show, kthnx. Will that do?

ETA: The reason I've been thinking about all this recently is that, talking on doctorwhoforum the past few days, I've come to realise what I've known all along: TORCHWOOD'S NOT THAT GOOD A SHOW. Seriously. It's not awful, but it could be FAR BETTER. AND YET, AND YET, AND YET... I can't tear myself away, I love it so much. How's that for pointless?

Comments

[bandgeek01.livejournal.com]

You are so completely correct about the WHO fandom. It scares me too. Like holy crap scares me. I've gotten bitched out a few times already just for stating something.

Doctorwhoforum still scares the shit out of me. I try to be active, yet I'm either blown over or just yelled at. I'm like that would instantly turn people away from the "fandom" and or the show/s.

But then I realize there are people like you who I read all of your analysis of shows (though I may be late in reading, I always read).

Nicole

[tencrush]

I've not been on the Who boards at DWF since around the end of Who series 2. I just can't do it, there is too much wank and hate and ignorance and general WFTery. I can't deal.

[bandgeek01.livejournal.com]

I only went there cause there were pretty pictures of GDL, and JB so I've stayed to the squee threads, even then the GDL squee thread got incredilbly ridiculous.

But I've learned to stay away, only post so my memebership doesn't get deleted, lol. Then I lurk and look at pretty pictures :)


Nicole

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Ridiculous how? *shudders to think, but feels driven to know*

[bandgeek01.livejournal.com]

Some posters who you could tell were new to a forum like that started bashing a poster who from what I could tell was a more respected member of the forum. That's all I pretty remember. I tried to ignore it, but it was like my first thread I looked in and I was afraid to post because I was new there. Still them if you consider my post count I'm new, but it just left a bad feeling.

Nicole

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

TW BUMSECKS 4 GRATE LULZ N LUV!

Nope, it's not that good of a show. I always warn people when I recommend it. It's not-good in the way that fluffernutter sandwiches are not-good: zero nutritition, completely artificial, sticky and messy, and totally, utterly delightful.

I love my big gay crackshow with a giddy happy love.

[tencrush]

TW ASSBABIES FTW!!

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

And of course TW PEEN.

But seriously, the whole show is done with such obvious glee-- everyone loves working on it, and it shows.

Thank you for that icon. It's very inspirational for this poor working girl. Gives me something to live for. ;-)

And those long, long, graceful fingers. Gnah!

I WATCH FOR THE SCIENCE.

Hm. Anyway...

I wonder how GDL's auditions are going.

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fandom person. I've never considered myself to be a part of any "fandom", I'm actually kind of vague as to what the term encompasses. I don't go to conventions, I hardly ever read tie-in novels, I stay away from fanfiction unless I'm hugely bored and it promises to be A)hilariously funny or B)pornographic in the extreme. I hate RPS/F and I hate photomanips, I don't see the point of fanart and, seriously, I don't ship.

I am a fandom person (though declining as time passes). I go to meet-ups, I haven't read the tie-ins, I do consume fanfiction on a dwindling basis, I not only read but have written RPS and have no shame about it, I'm not into fanart either, and I do occasionally ship.

Still, your posts are one of my favorite aspects of TW "fandom." I just find them and the discussions they provoke to be insightful and funny. And they are for the most part blissfully free of the whole "you don't see things I do, ergo you are [insert pejorative of choice]" tropes from pretty much any fandom out there. Why so prsnl? I'm a Jack/Ianto 'shipper' (I guess, I hate the term), but I would rather engage in an interesting debate with someone who isn't than just squee back and forth about OTPs with a less analytically-inclined fan. If a person is intelligent, funny, and isn't obviously out to make me see the error of my poor, misguided ways (ginormous button right there), I don't much care if they think Ianto should take a header off a cliff or that Owen is a sex god.

Especially as TW, with its continuity...er...issues, unintentional nuance, all-over-the-place acting, strange choices in direction, and questionable tie-in media make it so every viewer can have his own personal show, apparently. Like epic romance? Angst? Drama? Comedy, intentional or not? Gay relationship? Het relationship? Big Damn Heroes? Bumbling idiots who save the world by accident more than anything else? Torchwood is the show for you. When I think about it that way, it's probably why I love it so much even when it drives me bonkers.

I wish I saw TW as a happybubble, but a lot of it seems unfriendly to me. I adore Jack/Ianto, and I have been called out for being negative about the pairing. And I said something critical of Barrowman once. And I do like him quite a lot. Cardinal sin. And yeah, Gareth gained weight. And sometimes I quite like Gwen (and sometimes, I really don't). I think M/M/F threesomes are hot. I don't actually like James Marsters.

I like your posts because none of that seems to matter in discussions here. And that's not just me kissing your ass. I look forward to seeing you pop up on my friends list.

Not so sure about bonekickers, though. Getting episodes online is such a PITA that I only bother for TW and Who. Maybe if BBCA picks it up. ;P

[tencrush]

I haven't really noticed TW fandom being particularly unfriendly, but then, to be honest, I rarely venture out of my own journal, so maybe that's why I see it as a happybubble. Meh. I'm cool just hanging around here, I guess.

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't intend to be a downer. :/ I guess I shoud have just said, "I like it in your journal" and shut up, since that was my ultimate takeaway message.

[tencrush]

Oh, you weren't a downer, I'm high on love today for reasons I have yet to fathom. I fucking love your icon with a love I cannot adequately express.

[cirrocumulus.livejournal.com]

I love the Torchwood fandom immensely too. Not only are there some ridiculously talented fic writers and insightful analysts who bring interesting thoughts and ponderings to the table, but mostly it just seems to be full of funny, clever people who know how to have a good time and genuinely crack my shit up.

And I know exactly what you mean about Torchwood itself being really rather eh, and yet inducing so much inexplicable love. In the beginning it was a bit like binge-eating really gross sweets, where what you're eating is totally unappetizing and you really want to stop but you just can't? And then I actually started to love the show proper, even with all of its faults and head-desky moments. Because there were moments when watching season 1 I'd just think to myself, "really? I'm actually WATCHING this? I actually LOOK FORWARD TO THIS every week!?" But it's interesting how my perspective about the show has changed so much; like the first time I saw Cyberwoman I thought it was absolute balls, and now it's one of my favorite episodes. But I think the special mix of awesomeness and crapitude on the show has spawned our wonderful fandom, because the show is good enough to hook a large body of enthusiastically devoted fans, yet just dumb enough to not take itself too seriously and thus avoid wank.

[tencrush]

Oh yeah, you just reminded me that one of the other reasons I <3 TW fans so much is that about 70% of the time their icons are full of luls. I can laugh my way through this fandom on a daily basis, even if the discussion is liek totally srs. TW cracks my shit up.

[queencheesecake.livejournal.com]

That pretty much sums up how I feel about fandom in general. As far as I've noticed, the TW fandom seems less wanky than most (though I tend to avoid the extremes).

And I agree with you 100% about TW on the whole. Sometimes it's downright terrible, yet it still wins.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

When it comes to Torchwood I'm not really a fandom type person either (I've never gone to a meet-up or read any of the tie-in books and torch_wood isn't even on my f-list). I used to have torchwoodcoffee on my f-list, but removed it a while ago after I realized I was skipping more MPREGS stories than reading. Now I just stick to the writers on my f-list.

I completely agree about the show; it could be so much better, but I love it anyway. I do do FanArt, but it's mostly collage-type banners for other people's stories.

I do love your discussions, by the way. They're always thought provoking.

[dani_the_girl]

Yay! Torchwood is my first dip of my toes into the scary ocean of fandom and I totally concur - it's a lovely little HappyBubble :) I guess it's hard to take debates about cannon and characterisation too seriously when it's pretty clear the writers aren't :D

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'I guess it's hard to take debates about cannon and characterisation too seriously when it's pretty clear the writers aren't :D'

Truer words were never spoken.

[off_coloratura]

TORCHWOOD'S NOT THAT GOOD A SHOW. Seriously. It's not awful, but it could be FAR BETTER. AND YET, AND YET, AND YET... I can't tear myself away, I love it so much. How's that for pointless?

Believe it or not I did a college paper on this. Well, okay, it was examining cult movies in the light of Umberto Eco's essay "Casablanca: Cult Movies and Intertextual Collage" which I would heartily recommend to anyone in any fandom of something that, like Torchwood, is slightly awful. In it he examines why we like cult movies and describes what attracts us to them:

"What are the requirements for transforming a book or a movie into a cult object? The work must be loved, obviously, but this is not enough. It must provide a completely furnished world so that its fans can quote characters and episodes as if they were aspects of the fan's private sectarian world, a world about which one can make up quizzes and play trivia games so that adepts of the sect recognize through each other a shared expertise. Naturally all these elements must have some archetypical appeal."

"...I think that in order to transform a work into a cult object one must be able to break, dislocate, unhinge it so that one can remember only parts of it, irrespective of their original relationship with the whole. In the case of a book one can unhinge it, so to speak, physically, reducing it to a series of excerpts. A movie, on the contrary, must be already ramshackle, rickety, unhinged in itself... It should not display one central idea but many. It should not reveal a coherent philosophy of composition. It must live on, and because of, its glorious ricketiness."

That there is Torchwood in a nutshell, my friends.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

I love Eco. And now I love him mostest.

Ramshackle, rickety, unhinged!* Exactly so! Bless its daffy little heart! <3


*Maybe I'll use that in a singles profile sometime... ;-)

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

ETA: The reason I've been thinking about all this recently is that, talking on doctorwhoforum the past few days, I've come to realise what I've known all along: TORCHWOOD'S NOT THAT GOOD A SHOW. Seriously. It's not awful, but it could be FAR BETTER. AND YET, AND YET, AND YET... I can't tear myself away, I love it so much. How's that for pointless?

i think that's why i like it
i don't need to defend it, i can just say, yeah it's crap but look! shiny

[antelope-writes.livejournal.com]

The writing sucks, the special effects suck, the direction in S1 really sucked (but got better in S2), some of the things that happen on the show REALLY suck (like some of the things implied by Something Borrowed), the plot holes suck, the amount of extras in the box set sucks...

...and yet, it still blew me away when I first saw it. It's one of the few shows I can think of that willingly tackles the subject matter it does, and I'm not talking about teh mansecks. Fucked-up relationships, serious contemplation about human nature and the afterlife, and a bunch of people who try the best they can with what they have, fail at least half the time (like real people do), and then have to deal with the aftereffects of their screwing up. I'm all over that like white on rice, to the point where I will gleefully ignore everything in the first paragraph.

It's kind of like Eminem, for me. I don't actually listen to what he says most of the time, because the lyrics are overwhelmingly full of misogynistic self-congratulatory auditory codswallop--but the man is a master musician. The things he can do with just his voice as an instrument? Spectacular. TW is kind of the TV equivalent of that.