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tencrushSo... it transpires that James Moran wrote the BBCA Captain's Blogs. Interesting. And when I say "interesting", I mean, of course, "weird". I have in the past accused the blogs of having been written by a gushing demented 15-year-old fangirl. So, either James Moran is secretly a gushing, demented 15-year-old fangirl, or James Moran has cynically pandered to the gushing, demented 15-year-old fangirl in all of us. I mean, it's either one or the other, right? I WISH I COULD TALK TO JAMES MORAN RIGHT NOW, SERIOUSLY.
My problem with the Captain's Blogs, which I've expressed on numerous occasions, is the way they are in many instances, completely at odds with what we've been shown on screen when it comes to the Jack/Ianto relationship. And on one level, it's kind of heartening to know that they're the product of the production team, because it means that all that shizzle that we've been talking about all these months, all those interpretations (because that's what they are, let's face it) we have of there being more to Jack/Ianto than handjobs in the hub, there being more depth to it than the shallow sexxings and innuendo we've been unambiguously shown, are supported by at least some sort of opinion by someone on the team somewhere, that yes, there is more to this relationship that the stuff they've chosen to show. It shows promise for the future, right? But, then again, there's the cynical aspect of the whole thing, that aspect that has got up a few people's noses. I guess the question really is, WERE THEY PANDERING TO US?
Well, there's a few possibilities, the first, of course being that James Moran just ships Jack and Ianto. James Moran, personally, is a fan of the relationship and wants to see it played out in the way the blogs play it out. Now, that possibility is all well and good, but if that's the case then it brings me back to the point I have made countless times before about Torchwood, which is that there is no-one in charge. Nobody is taking it upon themselves to make sure all the writers are on the same page when it comes to the interpersonal relationships on the show and it makes for a mess in the area of character continuity. It just doesn't work to let one writer play up Jack/Gwen, and the next Jack/Ianto completely randomly, because all it serves to do at the end of the day is make everybody look bad. Gwen looks like an insensitive slut, Jack looks like a fickle spacewhore and Ianto looks like a trodden-upon boytoy who just takes it (in the ass, yes I know you were thinking it, well done, you). So, yeah, if James ships Jack/Ianto, good for him, a lot of us do, and if that's all it is, then that's fine, but somebody, somewhere, please bear in mind that evidently not all the writers do. And that's hella confusing for those of us watching.
Now the second, and I would hope more plausible, possibility is that James Moran was writing to some sort of brief from up above. But that brings a whole different can of worms to the table and they're just as unpleasant as the other worms (the other worms, up there, which I hadn't yet mentioned, but let's just assume there was a metaphor about worms involved somehow in the first possibility and move along, yeah?) Because that implies first of all that the powers that be were all too aware that they were showing the Jack/Ianto relationship, on screen, in a rather superficial light, because let's face it, of all the interactions we could have been shown between Jack and Ianto, we all agree that perhaps one or two sexual innuendoes should have been dropped in favour of even the vaguest hint that these two have some sort of emotional connection along the lines of the one the blog seems to be telling us they have. Now this brings up an interesting question, which is, when exactly were these blogs written? Because it could quite easily be the case that the blogs were written at a very late date, at a time when negative fan reaction was already starting to filter through, or at least at a time when positive reaction and the popularity of the Jack/Ianto relationship were becoming more clear to the production team, more clear, at least, than at the scripting and shooting stages of season 2. So was James Moran briefed to play catch-up in what the production team realised was a rather too ambiguous portrayal of a relationship the fanbase was rallying around? It's possible. And if so, yeah, you could call that pandering, but at least it's not cynical pandering, right? It's the kind of pandering that makes us fans feel kind of smug and good about ourselves because it tells us that someone's listening. And that promises great things for the future. Cool.
The other possibility though, the other worm in the can, if you will, is that Moran was briefed to add this layer to the relationship purely because the powers that be had no intention of going into it on screen. Now that's cynical pandering. That's the having your cake and eating it scenario and it's the one most people fear is the case. And that fear is reasonably justified, I feel. I mean, here's a team of writers and producers and whatnot who are perfectly happy to take Jack out of Torchwood, plonk him back into Who, rewind his character by a couple of years and turn him back into an omnisexual spaceslut who'll come onto anything with a pulse, despite having had him develop on Torchwood for two years into a man who seems, from what we can gather from the text, reasonably romantic, more than capable of monogamy and a person who places a huge emphasis on protecting those he loves. Not the kind of guy who just leaves you in the Hub with a bunch of Daleks, because hey, you guys can take care of yourselves, right? I'm taking the big gun, smoke me a kipper, helloooo there Sarah Jane. That sort of thing. These are the people we're dealing with here. The people who didn't bat an eyelid when the script said Owen, the guy who's been a doctor for at least five years that we know of, was 27 years old. The sort of people who from our fannish perspective, just don't seem to think twice about the bigger picture they're painting. Or at least once more (bonus points for the reference, peeps, just seeing if you're still paying attention, I realise this is all getting a bit tl;dr.) I hate to break it to the powers that be, but this last scenario is one that a lot of people wouldn't put past you in the slightest. I'm just sayin', you know?
What do I think? I think it's a little bit from columns A, B and C. I think the big problem Torchwood suffers from, and it's one I've had a bit of time to think about, is that they just don't quite know where they want to go with Jack. He was an omnisexual whore, but they've realised that that's just a bit too much of a whoreish thing for the romantic lead of a show to be(especially one that you've touted as such a sexually liberated icon, it gives the impression that sexual liberation=sluttiness and that looks bad and isn't what they meant). But giving him a romantic relationship that's anything more than casual kind of takes away his appeal as a 51st century happy-go-lucky player type, and it bogs him down as a character with nowhere to go. In making Jack our hero, they're kind of stuck now between a rock and a hard place. I sympathise, and I think it's a hard dilemma to resolve. What I do know, though, is that trying to approach him, and his relationship with Ianto, from all angles at once, trying to cover all the bases and please everyone, isn't the solution, and that's an approach a lot of people thought the Captain's Blogs were symptomatic of. I wasn't convinced that Rusty and co. were in the business of trying to please everyone, but, having seen Rose and Handy snog in the sunset in Journey's End, I'm no longer so sure about that one. There's having a cake, there's eating it, and then there's eating every pastry based snack in the whole damned shop.
My problem with the Captain's Blogs, which I've expressed on numerous occasions, is the way they are in many instances, completely at odds with what we've been shown on screen when it comes to the Jack/Ianto relationship. And on one level, it's kind of heartening to know that they're the product of the production team, because it means that all that shizzle that we've been talking about all these months, all those interpretations (because that's what they are, let's face it) we have of there being more to Jack/Ianto than handjobs in the hub, there being more depth to it than the shallow sexxings and innuendo we've been unambiguously shown, are supported by at least some sort of opinion by someone on the team somewhere, that yes, there is more to this relationship that the stuff they've chosen to show. It shows promise for the future, right? But, then again, there's the cynical aspect of the whole thing, that aspect that has got up a few people's noses. I guess the question really is, WERE THEY PANDERING TO US?
Well, there's a few possibilities, the first, of course being that James Moran just ships Jack and Ianto. James Moran, personally, is a fan of the relationship and wants to see it played out in the way the blogs play it out. Now, that possibility is all well and good, but if that's the case then it brings me back to the point I have made countless times before about Torchwood, which is that there is no-one in charge. Nobody is taking it upon themselves to make sure all the writers are on the same page when it comes to the interpersonal relationships on the show and it makes for a mess in the area of character continuity. It just doesn't work to let one writer play up Jack/Gwen, and the next Jack/Ianto completely randomly, because all it serves to do at the end of the day is make everybody look bad. Gwen looks like an insensitive slut, Jack looks like a fickle spacewhore and Ianto looks like a trodden-upon boytoy who just takes it (in the ass, yes I know you were thinking it, well done, you). So, yeah, if James ships Jack/Ianto, good for him, a lot of us do, and if that's all it is, then that's fine, but somebody, somewhere, please bear in mind that evidently not all the writers do. And that's hella confusing for those of us watching.
Now the second, and I would hope more plausible, possibility is that James Moran was writing to some sort of brief from up above. But that brings a whole different can of worms to the table and they're just as unpleasant as the other worms (the other worms, up there, which I hadn't yet mentioned, but let's just assume there was a metaphor about worms involved somehow in the first possibility and move along, yeah?) Because that implies first of all that the powers that be were all too aware that they were showing the Jack/Ianto relationship, on screen, in a rather superficial light, because let's face it, of all the interactions we could have been shown between Jack and Ianto, we all agree that perhaps one or two sexual innuendoes should have been dropped in favour of even the vaguest hint that these two have some sort of emotional connection along the lines of the one the blog seems to be telling us they have. Now this brings up an interesting question, which is, when exactly were these blogs written? Because it could quite easily be the case that the blogs were written at a very late date, at a time when negative fan reaction was already starting to filter through, or at least at a time when positive reaction and the popularity of the Jack/Ianto relationship were becoming more clear to the production team, more clear, at least, than at the scripting and shooting stages of season 2. So was James Moran briefed to play catch-up in what the production team realised was a rather too ambiguous portrayal of a relationship the fanbase was rallying around? It's possible. And if so, yeah, you could call that pandering, but at least it's not cynical pandering, right? It's the kind of pandering that makes us fans feel kind of smug and good about ourselves because it tells us that someone's listening. And that promises great things for the future. Cool.
The other possibility though, the other worm in the can, if you will, is that Moran was briefed to add this layer to the relationship purely because the powers that be had no intention of going into it on screen. Now that's cynical pandering. That's the having your cake and eating it scenario and it's the one most people fear is the case. And that fear is reasonably justified, I feel. I mean, here's a team of writers and producers and whatnot who are perfectly happy to take Jack out of Torchwood, plonk him back into Who, rewind his character by a couple of years and turn him back into an omnisexual spaceslut who'll come onto anything with a pulse, despite having had him develop on Torchwood for two years into a man who seems, from what we can gather from the text, reasonably romantic, more than capable of monogamy and a person who places a huge emphasis on protecting those he loves. Not the kind of guy who just leaves you in the Hub with a bunch of Daleks, because hey, you guys can take care of yourselves, right? I'm taking the big gun, smoke me a kipper, helloooo there Sarah Jane. That sort of thing. These are the people we're dealing with here. The people who didn't bat an eyelid when the script said Owen, the guy who's been a doctor for at least five years that we know of, was 27 years old. The sort of people who from our fannish perspective, just don't seem to think twice about the bigger picture they're painting. Or at least once more (bonus points for the reference, peeps, just seeing if you're still paying attention, I realise this is all getting a bit tl;dr.) I hate to break it to the powers that be, but this last scenario is one that a lot of people wouldn't put past you in the slightest. I'm just sayin', you know?
What do I think? I think it's a little bit from columns A, B and C. I think the big problem Torchwood suffers from, and it's one I've had a bit of time to think about, is that they just don't quite know where they want to go with Jack. He was an omnisexual whore, but they've realised that that's just a bit too much of a whoreish thing for the romantic lead of a show to be(especially one that you've touted as such a sexually liberated icon, it gives the impression that sexual liberation=sluttiness and that looks bad and isn't what they meant). But giving him a romantic relationship that's anything more than casual kind of takes away his appeal as a 51st century happy-go-lucky player type, and it bogs him down as a character with nowhere to go. In making Jack our hero, they're kind of stuck now between a rock and a hard place. I sympathise, and I think it's a hard dilemma to resolve. What I do know, though, is that trying to approach him, and his relationship with Ianto, from all angles at once, trying to cover all the bases and please everyone, isn't the solution, and that's an approach a lot of people thought the Captain's Blogs were symptomatic of. I wasn't convinced that Rusty and co. were in the business of trying to please everyone, but, having seen Rose and Handy snog in the sunset in Journey's End, I'm no longer so sure about that one. There's having a cake, there's eating it, and then there's eating every pastry based snack in the whole damned shop.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-17 07:54 pm (UTC)I always enjoy your views, but I just don't think these blogs are very serious. I can see that those obsessed with Gwen/Jack may get upset, because the one thing I think they say, is that Jack/Ianto is played out off screen. To me RTD's writing in DW this season said exactly the same thing.
I also think it would have been awful to have Jack shag a different character every week, it would have been James T Kirk only worse, as that was the 60's when it was a new idea, now he would just seem like a sleazy git. They clearly knew that, and I think have come up with a nice way of dealing with it.
I'm pretty sure that you are British? It just seems to me that British crime/sci fi drama often deals with relationships like this. Even characters that are married etc, in crime dramas it is mostly a background thing, and not really ever given much time. Only soaps go into depth with relationships. I don't really think there has ever been that much Jack/Gwen, it can be read in so many ways, father/daughter, friendship, or crush. Certainly the irritating googly eyes seemed to stop altogether after the wedding, and were totally absent from DW.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-17 08:03 pm (UTC)I'm not complaining about Jack/Gwen, I'm complaining about inconsistency in the storytelling and a general lack of direction. (And no, I'm Dutch.)
no subject
Date: 2008-07-17 08:42 pm (UTC)I was out with some Welsh friends on Saturday and we were talking about TW. They are what I imagine most viewers to be, they quite enjoy it, but don't really take that much notice of any details at all. They only started watching to check out the locations, and enjoy enough to watch regularly. They were talking about how much they like Gwen, (they couldn't remember her name) that she is with a normal Welsh bloke, even though she wants to shag Capt Jack, then they said "and what's his name, Jack's boyfriend, the one with the suits?" We continued talking and they were laughing about weevils in Abergavveny as they both live that way and work in Cardiff. It occured to me though that they have pretty much judged the relationships the way they are intended, while only watching very superficially, not even remembering any names apart from Jack!!
I am very glad there was no bible, they have had the freedom to develop on screen chemistry, and let characters flourish. I have given up on US shows before, they can be so overwritten. And force actors with no chemistry at all into romantic pairings.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-17 10:36 pm (UTC)I generally see the blog as filling in downtime blank spots. And, since Gwen IS with someone else, and Jack IS in some kind of relationship with Ianto (and so presumably spends a considerable amount of that downtime with him), it stands to reason that the blog will reflect the Ianto/Jack thing more than the show.
I guess I just don't see how having one character with real connections to more than one other character is inconsistent. In fact, in my experience, it's kind of true to life.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-17 10:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 06:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 11:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 11:44 am (UTC)In Adrift when Gwen gets to Flat Holm, what is that Jack first says to her? And the delivery of that line? He states that it was "Ianto". There was no anger at all, just a statement of fact that Ianto knew about it and Ianto was the one who told Gwen. What about in Meat when Jack asks if he is showing off? Ianto tells him he does and he stops it. In Sleeper he seeks Ianto's approval for his actions in the interview room with Beth. Jack is continually looking to Ianto for approval. And that final scene I was talking about above. Gwen is hugging Jack after they have watched Tosh's final video. Gwen is stating she doesn't think she can go on / is at the point of possibly breaking down and Jack has lost two team members (one who he brought back from the dead). Jack is returning her hug but his hand is resting on Ianto's shoulder, seeking support from Ianto. Ianto knows this and is standing very still, hands clasped holding his own feelings in as he knows that Jack needs him to be strong so that Jack can maintain that strength in order for Gwen to accept the losses of Tosh and Owen.
The main problem is NOT the writing but the leading man who needs to be rained in or basically just slapped. JB has stated that he attacks each scene as if it is a mini movie and doesn't think about character motivation or history, just takes each scene as it's own little individual movie. That is where we are getting the inconsistency from. The Directors and TPTB need to make him stop making Jack such an inconsistent character. Eve is almost in the same category. If you just look at the words in the scene in Meat where she is threatening to leave TW and chose Rhys over them all. It is a great scene but the way Eve plays it is almost a complete contradiction to the words that she is reciting. The main problem we get with the googly eyes between the two of them is the two actors, not the writers, who seem to have dropped the Gwack pretty much this season as being over. Gwen still idolises Jack to an extent if you just go on the written words in the scripts, but that is about where it really ends.
Also as a visual when you only have 50 mins to fit in all that you want to tell a story, a scene with Jack hugging Ianto would end up on the cutting room floor, it just wouldn't work really. What part of it advances the story? If you had more than the 50 mins then possibly yes it might make it in, but even then still doubtful.
5% of the viewing audience you anticipate? BBC America - Torchwood is the highest rating show on that channel. The BBC use the funds they get from all those people subscribing to BBCA, free and clear from what they have to do with the licencing moneys that they get in the UK. They pay a lot of attention to those fans as that money is very nicely taken into the main BBC coffers and is a good reason why the show has moved from BBC3 to BBC1.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 12:11 pm (UTC)And I agree with you, there's a VERY BIG PROBLEM with Barrowman, and his approach to Jack is all over the place. A lot of the inconsistency comes from him, but if the writing and production team really had a problem with that, they should rein him the fuck in. John and Eve emoting at each other is one of the biggest hurdles season 2 had to overcome, it's consistently weird and out of left field. But then again, I'll reiterate: WHY IS NO ONE IN CHARGE???
no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 12:23 pm (UTC)I agree that Chibnall didn't seem to have any ability to reign the two of them in. Here's hoping that the new show runner does a better job....
I think there is a very large contingent who watch the show that are online, considerably more than the 5%. The hits on their websites etc are pretty good from what I understand of a TV website. The PTB are quite mindful and keep tabs on what is discussed online on the official places and the not official places, even if they do they say they don't.....
no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 12:26 pm (UTC)Like someone said up above, there's such an amateurish approach to so many things on this show, it comes across as a bunch of writers and actors just winging it and doing whatever the hell they want. It confuses the audience and the show really deserves better, because it has the potential to be great. And it's not.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-18 03:27 am (UTC)But that just my opinion and is worth something only to me.
Morgan
no subject
Date: 2008-07-17 08:48 pm (UTC)