And seriously, guys...

[tencrush]

SHE'S HIS FUCKING WIFE!!

She's not Rose, she's not Jenny, she's not the Rani, she's not Romana. River Song is the Doctor's wife from the future. She's going to die in the next episode. He will spend all that time with her, doing all that funstuff in her diary, knowing precisely how and when she will inevitably die.

Paradoxes, inevitability, fate, curse of a Time Lord... Jesus Christ to hear fandom talking you'd think they'd never seen a Moffat episode before.

EDITED TO ADD SOMETHING I POSTED IN THE COMMENTS: I don't understand what everyone's so worked up about, she's not the next companion, she's his lover/wife from some point in the future. We'll more than likely never see her again. It's about time travel and the weirdness involved. It's about the Doctor losing the woman he loves, BEFORE HE LOVES HER. It's about her dying in the arms of a man WHO DOESN'T LOVE HER YET. It's a timey-wimey Moffat story, nothing more.

Moffat's apparent fascination with the mechanics of time travel make me tremendously excited about his tenure as boss. I think if Moffat does go for any sort of overriding story arc, it will be far more clever than Rusty's namechecking "Torchwood" every bloody episode, and will probably deal with the same themes he seems so fond of, fixed history, inevitability of events, consequences of past and future actions. I'm excited about Moffat, really I am.

Comments

[problematique.livejournal.com]

I'm very tired of romance in general on Doctor Who. It's going to go from The Doctor's future wife to who tons of people want to be The Doctor's wife in a week. Plus I just find the character/actress to be incredibly annoying. I found the whole episode to be incredibly weak and dry and really boring.

And the only person that I want to see as The Master is John Simm everyone else can just go away. :(((((((((

[problematique.livejournal.com]

thank you
I don't like the character and don't wish for the wife stuff to not be true because of shipping or whatever. I just feel as if this whole thing has not be handled very well at all.

Romance in general in Nu!Who has not been handled well and it's just really getting to me and I want it to stop.

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

I think folks are probably know River Song is most likely the Doctor's future wife -- they're just trying to concentrate on other possibilities because for whatever reason, they don't want her to be his wife. I really don't like River Song, so I'd be thrilled if it turned out that, say, she just got hold of the Doctor's bio and she's trying to con him into thinking they have an important future relationship -- but realistically, River will probably turn out to be his wife and we'll be stuck with her, like it or not.

[longlostblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, at first I tried to think of other possiblities, too - but then I gave up. She's his wife, and we'll just have to deal with it.

[tencrush]

I don't understand what everyone's so worked up about, she's not the next companion, she's his lover/wife from some point in the future. We'll more than likely never see her again. It's about time travel and the weirdness involved. it's about the Doctor losing the woman he loves (I'm assuming she dies, because obviously, she dies), BEFORE HE LOVES HER. It's about her dying in the arms of a man WHO DOESN'T LOVE HER YET. It's a timey-wimey Moffat story, nothing more.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I was just happy that Moffat was dealing with time travel in an interesting way yet again, which is something that isn't dealt with often enough in a series about a time traveler.

I really hope she is his wife, because I love Alex Kingston and can't wait to see her return - and meet The Doctor for the first time. Frankly, next Saturday 2010 cannot come quickly enough!

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

I think for me the problem is rooted in the fact that I don't like the smugness of the character and her continual "How Much I Know About You But No Spoilers!" talk. But it's more than that too -- if she's the Doctor's spouse, that sort of closes off things for other future potential relationships, because we know she's out there lurking. And at the same time, it doesn't feel like River Song has earned that importance in the narrative -- she's the Doctor's wife without any actual development of her character or a relationship. ALL she is, is the Doctor's wife. It -- well, it kind of feels like cheating to me narratively. I have to care about her, because she's the Doctor's future wife, but I resent having to care about her because the character hasn't been developed, just sort of thrust upon me. So annoying + forced on me + closing off other possibilities because she'll be out there lurking = why this story bothers me.

[tencrush]

That's not the point though, the point is that you DON'T have to care about her, in the same way that the Doctor DOESN'T care about her. He WILL, but he DOESN'T, it's the curse of the Timelords. She will die, and he won't be able to say that he loves her, he won't be able to be what she needs him to be. It's about HIS emo about not being able to do that for her, everything in NuWho is always about HIS emo at the end of the day.

[trotskysnowball.livejournal.com]

At last, sanity.

I'd bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets we never see her again.

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

But if this character is going to be the Doctor's wife, I'm going to care about her whether I particularly like her or not, because that's an awfully important relationship to the Doctor and I do care about the Doctor -- he's the reason I watch the show, in fact. I especially am going to care about this character if the guy who is taking over running the show is the one who introduces her into the narrative, because that leads me to believe that this is a storyline that could very easily be picked up again.

[dragonbloodink.livejournal.com]

The question then becomes--for me, anyway--how is he going to let himself fall in love with this woman when he meets her in the future, after having seen her die? You gotta admit, Ten's not the most emotionally...er, stable, reasonable, etc. etc. person. He doesn't handle loss well. I'd think his every moment with her would be haunted by what he knows awaits her in her future and his past. That has to be ten kinds of hell on a relationship.

[tencrush]

And maybe, inevitably, timey-wimey style, that's WHY they're not travelling the same timeline and travelling together. Maybe he spends all of their relationship trying not to fall in love with her and trying to push her away.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

*clings to you* I expected some joking spec about her being Romana or Jenny or whoever, but there are people arguing in all seriousness for her being one of about twenty people and getting stroppy at people disagreeing. I'm with you on her identity. If the twist was she that she was evil or a conman or whatever, there wouldn't have been any coyness about who she is - she would have introduced herself as his future wife.

[dragonbloodink.livejournal.com]

Ouch. >_< For his sake I'd almost rather believe one of the zillion theories that make her not-his-wife. That's about the nastiest thing they've come up with yet, right up there with Gallifrey going boom. Maybe even worse.


And here I was hoping that it was One who was married, and happily, and they spent many wonderful long years together. I hope they do something *nice* for Ten before he becomes Eleven, because man, he's had a rough go of it.

[sonormalithurts.livejournal.com]

This is the first sane post I've seen about River Song. (Thank you for that, thank you all.) Seriously, what the hell fandom. It's two episodes. You don't like it? Fucking take it like a man and stop whining. Two. Episodes.

[winterwooskie2.livejournal.com]

IAWTP. Well said. (although I'd settle for 'partner' - the Doctor's terrible with weddings, especially his own, so he probably missed it!)

People can ship Rose/Ten all they want, but it's getting out of hand when any female character who goes near the Doctor is accused of being (actual quote!) "an evil manipulative liar." I wasn't particularly taken by River, but I feel like people aren't giving her a chance at all. How are you supposed to enjoy a show if you perceive everyone as a 'threat' to your ship? So odd!
Besides, I love the idea of this incredibly tragic and poignant love that begins and ends in the same episode but exists outside of it as well. It's very clever! And I'm generally ANTI-Doctoromance, but it's still intriguing and could be potentially done well.

Of course, my personal crack canon is that yes, she's his wife - BUT ALSO SHE'S FUTURE!JACK. Jack -> River -> ??? -> Boeface! I mean, it just seems OBVIOUS. ;)

[winterwooskie2.livejournal.com]

Aah, but River Song will live in for ever! IN OUR HEARTS AND IRE!! BURN THE THREAT TO THE SHIP!!!

In before Silence in the Library denial starts to surface. "Oh, I like to pretend that after TUATW they went straight to Midnight."

[utopia83.livejournal.com]

At which point, you are a Tenth Doctor/Master delusional shipper.

;)

[eneffigie.livejournal.com]

Finally. I keep looking at these River Song speculation threads hoping someone will actually say something that makes sense instead of coming up with ridiculous theories about her being Jack/Jenny/Rose/the Master/the Rani/Lucy/the Doctor's second cousin twice removed/a Toclafane/Romana/ETC. I think the story would actually be way less interesting if any of those bizarre theories where the truth.

[the-time-lady.livejournal.com]

I truly hope you win that bet.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

As much as I want children, I WILL NOT TAKE THIS BET! As I will lose my dollar.

[spoofmaster]

You're probably right, though I'm still not going to commit to any theory of precisely what relationship they have. I haven't been reading the posts (just saw the episode tonight, actually), but after this one I think I'll exhibit my common sense by avoiding the others, since it sounds like a lot of first degree wank. I got a bit of almost sinister vibes off of River Song, but I really don't think she's going to turn out to be some horrible con artist. It's probably just the overall weirdness of the situation.

Seeing as Ten is such an emo ball of masochism, the fact that River Song is very likely to die during his first meeting with her, I think, makes it make more sense that he would get caught up in that relationship, whether or not he intends to do so. In a way, I suppose, it'd almost like he got all the hurt out right at the beginning--he's seen her die, so he knows that any more meetings will be all wibbly wobbly timey wimey and not end in her dying (well, probably. I'm sure he could always inadvertently create a horrible paradox if he was careless).

Anyway, I'm mostly wondering what "saved" means, and worrying about Donna. Not going to go around reading the speculations, though. I already regret reading the River Song spoilers and not getting to just find out when I saw it.

Foolish children!

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

Everyone knows that Jamie is his OTL.

He doesn't handle loss well.

[gillyp.livejournal.com]

Any yet he has handled loss, over and over and over. He's over 1000 years old; his planet is gone. He's lost and lost and lost. This is why he can't afford to get involved with a human who's going to grow old and die in the blink of an eye.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

um, yes yes