I was just fucking witcha...
May. 13th, 2008 02:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tencrushWell, no, I wasn't, but apologies if my last post went a bit rambly and weird. Most you have never seen me rambly and weird, though in fact, dealing with people onna OG has made me go rambly and weird before in the past, but it was always about Rose. Must remind myself not to carry my righteous anger over from there to here, because it make NO sense out of context. Sorry, LOL!
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
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no subject
Date: 2008-05-14 06:34 am (UTC)that was an interpretation that i had never considered, btu one that is born out by the evidence. jack does tend to mention men as shags, and seems to view women as love objects. the only man that we know he loved was the doctor and the doctor is always a special case.
my point is this: the janto ship is ridiculous. to have any sense of them as a couple, you have to watch the show in order, then go back and rewatch season one after viewing fragments, read the captains blog, and analyze every lingering look to death.
that's essentially what you have to do to sustain a SLASH 'ship, not a canonical gay relationship. maybe that's the source of your frustration. i'll walk five miles in a blizzard to interpret and sustain my slash pairing, but canonical 'ships, even gay 'ships should be right there on the screen.
i think i understand the jack/ianto relationship. from reading your blog, i think we have similar views, but the idea that jack uses ianto is very understandable. jack "cheated" on ianto in captain jack harkness, made googly eyes at Gwen throught season 2 and seemed to have a special bond with her in season 1. then you have ianto, who is a confirmed fool for love (cybewoman) sniffing jack's coat and crying in end of days. that gives one the sense that ianto loves more and the person who loves more is always in an inferior position. it's not that jacks a bastard, but the sense is that jack has affection for ianto, while ianto deeply loves jack.
my hope for season 3? that jack and ianto break up. seriously. that'll give them a chance to re-build somethjing onscreen, so then we'll see why they care for each other.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-14 06:44 am (UTC)And I never really thought about the slash thing, I've never been much of a slasher, but that's hilariously true. Slash is all about interpreting little glances and body language and MAKING UP a relationship based on nothing more than a few ambiguous looks and remarks. You shouldn't have to go to that amount of trouble for a CANON ship. It's just weird.
I mentioned having them break up as being the only clean solution, but I got just a tad flamed for it. So I'm keeping quiet now. :/
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 02:17 am (UTC)The problem with this theory to me, is that 2 out of the 3 women have been from a time where it would've been almost impossible for Jack to have an open relationship with a guy.
My interpretation of the men as anecdotes is that (aside from the writers using it to show that Jack is sexually liberal) he's finally in a time period where he can openly make anecdotes about them with minimal retribution (or his partner's are all gone and thus they aren't going to get attacked for it) and is making up for lost time by talking about them.
As for sustaining itself as a canon relationship, I guess since I analyze every look, conversation and any crumbs the actor/actress throw to me for any couple I ship (canon/slash/het/will-never-happen) I'm not as bothered about it.