I was just fucking witcha...
May. 13th, 2008 02:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tencrushWell, no, I wasn't, but apologies if my last post went a bit rambly and weird. Most you have never seen me rambly and weird, though in fact, dealing with people onna OG has made me go rambly and weird before in the past, but it was always about Rose. Must remind myself not to carry my righteous anger over from there to here, because it make NO sense out of context. Sorry, LOL!
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
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no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:15 pm (UTC)Didn't RTD pioneer Queer As Folk? Why is he afraid to push the big shiny gay button when he's been there done that and has shown more positive imagery on Doctor Who (though it was cut sadly) which was a show intended for Children. Ianto's moved progressively out into the open with this relationship from the teasing in Sleeper to dancing in Something Borrowed and I wouldn't think a potentially bad relationship -from his pov- would be one that Ianto would flaunt. He's the king of keeping his mouth shut about things, he wouldn't brag a bad thing but we as the viewer only have his side of the situation as reassurances as that.
It just boggles the mind that they wouldn't make the little adjustments. What, they can't risk not showing that fourth sweeping nightscape of Cardiff? Exit Wounds had what felt almost like a painful amount of city-scenes and while yes, Cardiff was wounded in the attack, they could have done something beautiful mirroring Gwen clinging to Rhys for comfort with Jack and Ianto in the Hub. While I'm not looking for in bed scenes or holding hands or skipping down the lane, some reassurances that Jack NEEDS as much as Ianto seems to NEED Jack would be nice :D
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:24 pm (UTC)Also someone mentioned Jack as the Rosarch test for the show. People have some pretty radically different interpretations of Jack. I think that Jack/Ianto relationship serves the same purpose. It can mirror the viewer's pain or joy depending on their worldview -- only problem is that it comes off as incoherent and not satisfying at times for those of us trying to figure out what's actually happening in the show!
Also I assume we're finally going to get some need out of Jack in a presumable season 3 -- there has to be a delayed reaction to that buried alive situation.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:28 pm (UTC)I so wish I had your faith and wasn't entirely convinced they're going to pretend that that NEVER HAPPENED.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 03:42 pm (UTC)But back to the actual topic, sad to say I have little faith in the writers to do a good job. I think the ambiguity comes from homophobia, or biphobia. I'm really glad Jack/Ianto is text, not subtext. That's progress. But we get to see all the heterosexual couples in bed, doing normal heterosexual couple type things. I guess they're ok with lesbians, too (Tosh and Mary). But Jack and Ianto? The only time we see them overtly sexual it's about 3 seconds of kinkiness in the greenhouse. I want to see them snuggling in bed in the morning. I want to see as much of a relationship between them as we've gotten with the other characters' relationships. But that's why there's so much fanfic, I guess. Because the actual show only teases and refuses to go there.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:44 pm (UTC)And yes, you're right about Jack/Ianto being just as left up to interpretation as Jack himself as well as it being incoherent~ It doesn't do them any good to leave it so vague though so I don't quite understand why there is such hesitation to give a solid answer.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:24 pm (UTC)That's my biggest gripe about last series. And like you say, it didn't have to be anything even vaguely similar, they could have downed a pint of scotch between them in the Hub for all I care, just show me that they have something, anything going on between them on anything even remotely approaching the same level as Gwen/Rhys. Five seconds, that's all it would have taken.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:33 pm (UTC)Its true! Such a small amount of time could fix it all so it bothers me that the writers/creators drag their feet about it. Especially considering these are the two sets we have left, why NOT show them on equal footing in the face of such tragedy?