One more for luck... The definitive fanon guide to Jack and Ianto, part three

[tencrush]

Before I start asking you all questions about why you answered what you answered in my big fanon polls, and start analysing exactly what it is we all think/take as read when it comes to these two characters, I have just a few more questions, amongst which are a couple I just kept forgetting to ask. It's not a long one, I promise.


[Poll #1178931]


NOW I'm done, I PROMISE.

Comments

[off_coloratura]

I'm fairly positive, from his reactions to Jack's death(s) in End of the World, that whatever else he knew about Jack, he did NOT know about the immortality.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Of course, that was before they gave Ianto the backstory so...it's just so confusing to even discuss this stuff because of how Ianto's story has developed. But I'm with you -- that reaction screamed 'I really think he's dead'.

[antelope-writes.livejournal.com]

Jack makes Carys glow gold and saves her life in Day One.

[tencrush]

Does he? I ask the question because I've never quite worked out what it is Jack does and whether or not we're supposed to see it as some sort of significant Thing He Can Do.

[fairofface.livejournal.com]

I agree, i just rewatched 'End of Days' and he doesn't seem greatly upset when Jack's shot just mad at Owen for doing it.

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

Doing it like this (sorry), because too many of my answers don't quite fit the boxes.

Japanese: not fluently, but he's really good at pretending to speak it better than he does.

Pregnant: Yes.

Psychic training: Couldn't say, I don't really remember that episode very well.

The Kiss: I'm not sure. I thought maybe yes, but there's no hint of that in the DVD commentary. And nothing glowy, either.

Jack's stint at the travelling circus: Definitely Torchwood related.

What does Ianto know about Jack:
- Fragments: not too much, I think, because pre-Canary Wharf he'd have no real reason to research Jack, and afterwards he'd have limited resources. Also, by the time Ianto joined Torchwood Jack had already taken over the Cardiff branch and probably limited contact with London to a minimum. Office gossip. What he learned from stalking Jack. Enough to know that being pretty and sexually available might get him hired. Not enough to know that being from TW1 might not.
- Day One to Cyberwoman: I think Jack completely erased his TW past before 2000 from the TW Cardiff files and archives after he took over, but Ianto might still have picked up a few hints that he'd been there for longer than that, or might have known that from TW1, which would have made him curious. He probably wouldn't have believed Jack's stories about 51st century pheromones and dinosaurs at first, but as Jack kept telling this kind of stuff, he'd have started wondering, and putting pieces together and trying to make sense of them. His thoughts would probably have been more along the lines of time travel though, and maybe he wondered if TW had a time machine somewhere that he was never told about. I don't think he knew about the immortality, he's too shocked when Owen shoots Jack in EoD. (And my personal fanon is that between S1 and 2 he found out about the Doctor and knew with whom Jack disappeared.)

The date: I think they kept planning to do it, but something always got in the way.

[crazytook.livejournal.com]

On the japanese issue, may i please just say that japanese is a very complicated language with varying degrees of fluency. my brother lived and worked in japan for four years, and while he spoke the language daily, does still not consider himself fluent.

that being said, i think that ianto probably learned a little japanese just for that one scientist guy. you know, pleasantries and what not, it wouldnt even be the most he's done for lisa.

[cayendi.livejournal.com]

I think Ianto speaks some Japanese. Maybe he learned it for Tanazaki specifically, or he just picked it up somewhere, and with his somewhat eidetic memory, it stuck.

I'm a bit vague on the psychic training, so I answered no, partly because I have no idea, partly because, as a junior researcher, he would not have been high on the list of people who needed to be tested ... I don't know.

I like to think Jack was pregnant at some point, but I have my doubts about it ever being mentioned again (err ... not counting the 'face of Boe' speculation)

I don't think Ianto knew about the immortality, but I do think he has his suspicions about his origins, and has probably rooted around in the Torchwood archives to find out as much as possible. I have no doubt he would have stumbled on the Jack Harkness files in London (T3 was still tied to T1 at that point, so there would have been copies in T1 ... at least, I like to think so)

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

A mate of mine went on a business trip to Japan with a bunch of colleagues, and they memorised the phrase "Thank you for being our honourable travelling companions!", which they would recite in unison every time they got off a train. Occasionally one of the Japanese passengers would smile a little at this.

[fatchickengirl.livejournal.com]

It appear on the series one extranet Ianto had been searching around for signatures and found one in the early 50's. So suspect and also John kiing himself etc Ianto wld of be suspect to Jack's involment with that.

Jack actually confirmed he went underground at the circus for Torchwood. and after Fragments we know he spent the whole 20c in Torchwood one way or another.

For me that kiss *points to Icon* is pre-date as it was their way of saying i care/love you without saying it and Ianto fianlly excepting Jack isn't going to bugger off again!!!

As for super power pasing on life/strength; well we saw him do it on 'Day One' to help cerys!

[cayendi.livejournal.com]

Jack actually confirmed he went underground at the circus for Torchwood. and after Fragments we know he spent the whole 20c in Torchwood one way or another.
He didn't confirm this. I think you're right, but he just said it was complicated, he never mentioned Torchwood.

[jo02]

I am sad that you are done with the polls.
I love a good poll.
Um, my ears have gone red, I am going now.

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

I think Ianto figured out pretty much everything because he's Ianto. He may not have known the whys, but he knew Jack was not typically mortal and had traveled to different times and planets. And Ianto will lie if he thinks it's warranted. So, we can't believe a word out of his mouth unless we know the motive for certain.

I don't think Ianto speaks Japanese. Tanezaki spoke fluent English. Maybe he learned a greeting or phrase at first, but it's not something he ever spent time on.

I'm assuming the date was pre-KKBB because something tells me Ianto at least tried to hold out until the date, and they were clearly fucking again by KKBB.

Jack was pregnant and Ianto has psychic abilities, but the chances of them ever coming up are pretty much nil.

You forgot one option on question four...Only if it's Twu Wuv.

Please stop apologizing for the polls! They are made of awesome, and seem like a wonderful way to occasionally pass this nightmare of a hiatus. A year?!? Ack!

Also, assuming Gareth is reading this blog, then he's already read everyone's wierdo comments. In which case...thank from the bottom of my heart for wearing pants that fit and shaving that thing off your face. You look like a million bucks pounds.

[tencrush]

She's American, Gaz, she means trousers. As far as pants go, commando is very much de rigeur these days. Just sowing some seeds...

[dani_the_girl]

It is annoying how many of the questions in these polls have answers which are basically "Yes, but the writers are too lazy to do anything about it". They really need to get it together a bit more. I would like to join the petition for the sheet of A4 paper plan.

[tencrush]

Yeah, I keep wanting to NOT be sacrastic and cynical and put BECAUSE THE WRITING IS SHIT in as an option, but it keeps bubbling back up, because there really is no other explanation for a lot of things.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

RE: The Cyberwoman kiss-- I don't think that Ianto was dead, he was just unconscious. I'm willing to believe that Jack's kiss has some sort of mojo that can help bring a person back from unconsciousness faster (particularly if he has a prior sexual connection with them), but that he couldn't bring someone back from the dead.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

Cyberwoman kiss. Just watched Cyberwoman for the 1st time. I thought, based on Ep 2 - the sexual energy alien story, when he kissed the alien-infused girl - that Jack had some special reviving powers that he could pass on through a kiss, based on his immortality. Wasn't that why he kissed the girl in that ep? In Cyberwoman, Jack only kissed Ianto after trying to revive him with gentle slaps to the face - so I assumed the kiss was supposed to be the same thing, giving Ianto some sort of energy based on Jack's immortality = and it worked, he woke up. I was really disappointed that the commentary didn't explain any more about that kiss other than a wimpy "that's TW for you" - i.e. isn't it cute we've got 2 couples kissing at the same time, while Cyberwoman is hunting them down? Yes, it was fantastic, but... please explain more. Like, are we supposed to think Jack is attracted to Ianto at this point? Obviously in light of Fragments, they were attracted to each other, but in S1, we don't know any of that.

Along the same lines, the commentary to They Keep Killing Susie completely wimped out on explaining the stopwatch scene. All they said was, well so much has been said about this scene, we're not even going to touch this. Wah. Why was the scene put in at that point? Why a stopwatch, such a non-sexual object (other than the fact that Ianto loves stopwatches)? Why out of the blue, with (almost) no prior indication of Jack/Ianto (other than Jack thinks Ianto looks good in a suit and gave him the reviving kiss)? Is this just straight guys not wanting to talk about it? Annoying. Sorry to go on so.

[seres-mimosa.livejournal.com]

I love/hate that the one thing we can all agree on, across all three polls is our lack of faith in TW continuity and loose ends tend to stay that way :)

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Bwa -- you are absolutely right on that!

[gypsylady.livejournal.com]

Last comment, I promise. I PROMISE!!!!!

From "Fragments," we know that there is a metric buttload of file cabinets in the bowels of TW3. Who does the filing? Who seems to fucking HAUNT the Hub besides Jack? Who is the most likely to have come across Emily's lovely handwriting on a report listing "Captain Jack Harkness, Uncontracted Agent?" If Ianto hasn't figured out Jack's secret, something is seriously wrong with that boy.

I'm sure Jack made an effort to hide his immortality, especially after severing ties with TW1 but Alex knew about it and that was pre-severing. So someone in London surely knew something. (How Jack stayed out of Yvonne's clutches is both a mystery and a plot bunny.)

More polls would not be poorly received, btw. They're fun. And seed more story ideas. Damn plot bunnies! (I am working on a plot punny at the moment but am too sleepy still this morning to worry about it.)

[kakareen.livejournal.com]

He made her stay away the same way he gets Gwen to back off. He puts on a display of aggressive sexuality, the opposite of seduction. If he made it clear enough he would be more trouble than he was worth and would willfully ignore any and all sexual harrassment clauses, I think that would do it.

[nightspring.livejournal.com]

I voted Ianto knows only the basic stuff in Jack's Torchwood files, but the choice I would have liked is to vote for would be something like:
He knows he's been with Torchwood an inhuman amount of time, and has strong suspicions about both his immortality and his origins (and a lot of other things we the audience isn't aware of yet).

Also, about the date. I voted they haven't been on a date yet, but when Jack is running off to "weevil hunting with Ianto" in Adrift, it's clearly a date. My thinking is that, upon reflection, Ianto decided that a "dinner, movie" date just isn't them, and retroactively declared their first date to have been the weevil hunting in Fragments.

[antelope-writes.livejournal.com]

In Adam, when Jack sees the vision of Gray, he and Ianto were supposed to be going out weevil hunting together. Jack got spooked and said he'd take Ianto home. Ianto asked him if he were sure and said they "hadn't been hunting together in a while." That strikes me as something they did as a date-type thing...the two of them and the others weren't invited.

[totallytracy.livejournal.com]

Regarding the kiss of life, I thought is was explained that Carys was so weak from the alien that Jack used the kiss of life on her to strengthen her so she could recover.

The thing for me with the kiss of life, is that I want to know the rules, etc. because obviously he can't use it on everyone all the time, otherwise he could have used it on Tosh or even Owen, there has to be some other extenuating circumstance that makes it work.

Or maybe it was just reserved for Gareth and his girlfriend, lol, I bet that led to some late night conversation....since they have both kissed Captain Jack. hee hee

[ironedpolyester.livejournal.com]

The thing for me with the kiss of life, is that I want to know the rules, etc.

Rules? What are these Torchwood rules you speak of? Gah... sometimes the writers of this show frustrate me with their character and plot inconsistencies...

I wish I knew the rules for the kiss of life too.

[dragonkal.livejournal.com]

I still have a theory that Jack or Ianto is a Timelord, and Ianto or Jack is the companion, and there's a Chameleon Arch in play. In which case the whole "how much did Ianto know at the time of Cyberwoman" question/answer gets a lot more complicated.

And where does it say Ianto speaks Japanese, dude???

[astuta.livejournal.com]

I love this, it's so much fun! Of course I just found out I'm some mindless sheep that believes the same things as the majority. Talk about brainwash *just kidding*

Thank God you asked the "REALLY IMPORTANT FANON QUESTION YOU KEEP FORGETTING TO ASK.". It's one of the most interesting ones. I'm glad that so far "A bit? Maybe?" It's winning. I have my own not-so-crazy theory that his kiss transfers energy, not his life force. That way he woke Ianto (while coping a feel) and that's why sex maniac chick from episode 2 got al glowie when he kissed her.

[csikat.livejournal.com]

About Jack's pregnancy, lol technically it has been mentioned again in the past, but in the future in the doctor who ep when they first go to sat 5, there is a quick news shot thats about the Face of Boe being pregnant with Boemina, lol! Only Jack could get pregnant when he is only a head!

Also I think that the date happened btw KKBB and sleeper because Ianto was VERY chipper in sleeper, something happened btw the eps either way, lol!

[sarcasticchick.livejournal.com]

re: 1 - It's hard fanon for me since it was hinted on the website in s1 (a letter from Tosh to her grandma/from her grandma?).

re: 2 - Yes, I think Jack's been pregnant before, but I think it had more to do with accidental alien device contact than him actually having a medical process. With the way he cavalierly threw it aside, I think it was an alien baby with tentacles that gave him really bad acne for a while.

re: 3 - Yes, Ianto had psychic training, he was at TW1. Obviously, they're aware of psychic ability at TW1 so it's not inconceivable that he has some measure of psychic ability. I do so love mindfuck Janto fics. ;)

re: 4 - Totally hard fanon for me that Ianto was just mostly dead and was brought back by Jack to blave and everyone knows that to blave is to blame!

re: 6 - Ianto knows everything, this hasn't changed drastically from s1 to s2. He plays along with the guessing pre-CW cause it's fun to be the only one who knows anything/everything. And he has fun stoking the flames re: the wacky rumors and theories re: Jack. But he's not a person to brag about what he knows, so he just sits back and smirks.

re: 7 - I think the date happened between KKBB and TtLM - and probably closer to KKBB, allowing for another date or at least more time before TtLM. The convo in TtLM seemed too intimate? for not actually having gone on the date, or doing anything remotely less-fuckbuddy and more....dabbling.

[bbluejenn117.livejournal.com]

For the date question I answered that they hadn't been on a date, but then after 'Adrift' I joked that weevil hunting was Jack's ided of a super fantastic date. I just have a hard time picturing those two having a "proper" date/\.

[caladria.livejournal.com]

Jack did the glowly thing with the girl in Day One, didn't he? Said something about having lots of life to spare, and then kissed her. And then did the same to Ianto in Cyberwoman.

My personal theory on that is that neither Cerys nor Ianto had anything physically wrong with them - so just giving them life helped them. Owen and Tosh had dirty great big holes in them, and so giving them the kiss of life would bring them back to let them bleed out again (which translates to me thinking that Jack can transfer Life but not the super-healing. I think).

And the date itself I don't think is that important - just the symbolism of "I want something more than we had". But I think they're too comfortable in Sleeper to not have communicated (knowing them, in eyebrow raises, groping, surprised hand-flapping and anything but those damn words) in some way to have got on the same page. Ish.

And that Ianto may have had a bog-standard psych training, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he did particularly well on it. (Also, Japanese? I'm new to the TW fandom bit, and I only remember the greeting the doctor in Cyberwoman, which I took to be Ianto being, well, Ianto. Polite.)

[nightspring.livejournal.com]

Just had a thought with regard to Ianto's psychic ability -- does anyone think it's significant that Jack and Ianto both didn't exhibit major personality changes (Tosh & Owen) and/or significant memory loss (Gwen) in Adam? In fact, considering that Jack had long-supressed childhood memories falling out all over the place, Ianto may have been the least affected by Adam's memory tampering until Adam purposefully planted the "bad stuff" into Ianto. So is it just coincidence that Adam's memory tampering didn't affect Ianto, or does he have some kind of psychic imperviousness greater than regular people?

Also, in Geeks... what Toshiko picks up from Ianto is general emotion (pain), but not really specific thoughts. I mean, both Gwen and Owen have thoughts about Toshiko, in addition to whatever else they are thinking about, because they are interacting with Toshiko, so it's kind of natural to have thoughts about the people you are speaking to. Ianto looks at Toshiko, asks her if she wants coffee, waits for her answer, and all that time... nothing.

And yes, I'm thinking about this way too harder than any of the writers ever would...

[kuroi-hemlock.livejournal.com]

Just had a thought with regard to Ianto's psychic ability -- does anyone think it's significant that Jack and Ianto both didn't exhibit major personality changes (Tosh & Owen) and/or significant memory loss (Gwen) in Adam?

I don't know, but I'm not sure if the writers were going in that direction with Ianto or Jack. I did think that the major personality changes between Toshiko and Owen had mainly to do with Adam liking Tosh. He gave her more confidence and as he was reading her memories, he realized that she was attracted to Owen. He saw the way Owen treated her and wanted to kind of treat him the way how Tosh was treated (as a lesson).

As for Gwen, she wasn't tampered with much either and I'm sure if the others had people they knew outside of the hub, they would find they had forgotten them too. Adam was not a very smart and assumed Gwen didn't have much contact with people like the others.

In Ianto's case, he probably did not find him a threat. Which is why he didn't tamper much with him and probably was saving his memories for later. In doing that he underestimated him, but as I said before Adam wasn't very smart.

The reason why Jack wasn't changed either was because, if Adam did influence his memories, he risks erasing Jack's real ones. Jack was his main source and to destroy his memories so quickly would not be a good thing.

I don't know if I made much sense, but I'm in a bit of a rush.

[kuroi-hemlock.livejournal.com]

Can Ianto speak Japanese? I have no idea, but until I hear more then a "Konnochi wa Tanazaki-san." I will have to say no. I know a bit of Japanese and it doesn't take a huge knowledge of the language to say what Ianto said. Actually he could of just read a phrase book to learn what he did. One thing I did notice, was that he bowed lower then Tanizaki did. Which shows that he does know a thing or two about proper Japanese social customs. It's proper manners to bow lower when greeting someone of a higher status.

I do have a question. Is there anyone else that doesn't believe that the kiss in Cyberwoman was a 'kiss of life'? I just need to know this, because I find that fandom supports this theory way too much.

[tencrush]

I personally don't think so, either, but then I've always been of the opinion they were sexually involved from the outset.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

Nice poll. It really drives home the point that the writers have no clue what they're doing. Don't get me started on Jack/Gwen vs. Jack/Ianto. Who's brilliant idea was it NOT to have a show bible, anyway? You know it's bad when the actors put more thought into the back-story than the writers. *waves at Gareth*

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Did you hear EM's comment about how Gwen feels? She loves Rhys from the top of her head to the tips of her toes. Jack is a big, handsome, charismatic American so a girl is going to take a second look, but Gwen loves Rhys. I'm paraphrasing regarding Gwen's Jack feelings, but the Rhys bit is almost an exact quote.

EM has come quite a ways from talking about the love that Gwen and Jack share, hasn't she?

[eandh99.livejournal.com]

One thing that you might've asked about -- how much does Ianto know about the Doctor and when did he find it out? Because I was very struck by Ianto's "Are you going back to him?" in KKBB, which was pretty much the first thing he asked Jack.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Yes, that question sounded a bit as if it was backed up by at least some knowledge of who 'he' was and what 'he' has been doing.

[flowright.livejournal.com]

Has Jack, up until the point we know him at today, ever REALLY been pregnant?
I voted no but who knows with Jack.... mpreg isn't my cup of tea, I hope that TPTB will never ever go that way in the tv show. Plus it makes me sad to know there's a little baby Jack somewhere without his/her father.


DOES Ianto know about Jack?
IMHO, Season1/part-time-shag!Ianto knows a lot of things, but without Jack being there to confirm them, it's just hypothesis. Ianto could have deduce the fast healing side of Jack but he was genuily upset by Jack's death so he didn't know for sure if Jack was coming back or not.
Season2-sort-of-officially-jack's-boyfriend!Ianto probably manipulate Jack to have answers (I love that Gareth said at the rift that he thinks Ianto still manipulate Jack's sexually to get whatever he wants... it gives them a nice power balance. I like My Ianto like my coffee : dark but not bitter)

The date, when do you think it took place?
I think there's more than one date as in opposition of "They just have hot and wild sex in the hub" state.
In the books (which aren't canon but...) Ianto says that Jack takes him on roof as his place of predilection for a date while Ianto would have like better something less thrilling like a amusement park.