Random Torchwood thoughts and questions

[tencrush]

• It's Gareth David-Lloyd's birthday today. Happy Birthday, GDL. Don't eat too much cake, now. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, RIGHT? Don't go there, dude.


• On that note, I've had a rather bizarre fannish obsession for a while now in as much as I keep squinting and trying to figure out what watch Ianto wears. Anyone know of any caps where I might be able to find out? See my header picture? See how it's just poking out from underneath the cuff there? Mocking me with its mysteriousness? Am I going to have to write the BBC wardrobe/props people? Because I hate having to do random obsessive things like that and I don't even know why I care, it just looks like a nice watch, sometimes, and sometimes I really like watches and I really want to know what it is. I'm so fucking sad.


• sage_theory wrote some TW meta here about Jack's managerial skillz, or lack thereof. Go read and come back to me. That's an order. I have a some personal fanon about Ianto, and that whole "Jack needs me" spiel he has going, I actually do believe Ianto does quite a lot on the logistic front, and I've also always been convinced that Ianto does the finances. As to why nobody ever thought to give that Rift victim holding unit a nice paintjob, I believe Ianto's still trying to appropriate the funds from somewhere, and I like to think he and Jack have after hours arguments about the frankly CRAZY money involved in having utility vehicles EMBOSSED and sports equipment branded with the logo of your top secret organisation, money which, to Ianto's mind, could be better spent doing up the cells and fixing the various leaks around the Hub. I think it's funny Ianto hasn't yet thought of getting a shedload of builders into that Top Secret island base to do it up and then retconning them before they can send an invoice. They retcon everybody else.


• On a more serious note, I do think Jack needs Ianto. The main reason I liked Adrift was the whole interaction between them. Ianto going behind Jack's back to pretty much speed up the inevitable so Jack can concentrate on the important stuff, I think that sort of thing probably happens a lot. I've seen a lot of comments on my earlier posts saying that people think Ianto reads and understands Jack pretty well, and I do think that's true. Ianto, unlike Gwen, knows when to push him and when to back off, he anticipates what Jack needs, to a certain extent before Jack even realises it, and he's perfectly willing to go behind Jack's back if he feels it's right FOR JACK OR THE TEAM AS A WHOLE. Unlike Gwen, who'll go behind Jack's back if she thinks it's right FOR HER.


• And since I've started thinking about Adrift, I'd like to bring up THAT SCENE again. I find it fascinating what happens when Gwen walks in on them. See, Jack is Gwen's boss, Ianto is just Gwen's coworker. If anyone should be chasing after Gwen, straightening himself out and telling her not to worry about interrupting, it's Jack, because that's his job AS HER BOSS. But it's not, it's Ianto doing the chasing and essentially defusing the situation. I think that's very telling and it shows how much Ianto, to a certain extent, is in charge in this relationship, and how, again, he anticipates that Jack is just not really the best guy when it comes to dealing with people on this level, he just doesn't do the work/private life switch thing that well. And so Ianto takes over that aspect of JACK'S JOB, just for that moment. Just an observation, perhaps not a valid one, but still, I found it interesting.

You realise I'm just going to keep spamming about TW until the finale's on, right?

Comments

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

I have nothing at all to contribute, but I ♥ your TW meta.

[tencrush]

Thank you. It's amazing what pours out of my overstuffed brain when I sit in front of my computer for five minutes.

[off_coloratura]

Everything you have said here is UTTER TRUTH. I completely agree that Jack is crap at managing things, and that Ianto picks up the slack for him in terms of what's best for the team.

And of course, the show itself will never deal with anything so mundane as who allocates the funds. All we have to go on is Jack's instability and diva managerial style, and Ianto's utter competence and subtle behind-his-back machinations.

Is it any wonder we love Ianto's character so much? Is there any aspect of him that is not just VASTLY cooler than anyone else on the show?

[off_coloratura]

Oh, also, what do yu want to bet Ianto was responsible for the redesigned conference room?

[tencrush]

TRUFAX.

[tencrush]

I like to think Ianto was COMPLETELY BEHIND Gwen's takeover in Jack's absence, in a Yes, Minister style. Praising her competence and leadership whilst subtly smoothing her path and rectifying her mistakes left right and centre, kind of like switching coffee cups around when somone inept has messed up your order. That's just how Ianto operates.

[off_coloratura]

Yes, yes yes yes.

Note how, in Fragments, after his disolated shoulder is taken care of, he's all about getting the status report on everyone else. He's also the one who reminds Gwen that Owen's fragile.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Jack is the strategy guy. He just loudly pronounces the end goal. Ianto is the tactics guy. He controls where they go, how they do it, when they do it, and writes the history afterwards. Owen and Tosh are the geniuses who are too busy building and dissecting things to pay attention. Gwen is the heart which apparently involves butting into things and pitching fits.

[holdingoff.livejournal.com]

for what its worth, i'm pretty sure his watch is a bulova, they make several square/dark blue faced watches. my partner has one- i stick with cheap watches because i'm too scared of losing an expensive one.

[tencrush]

Yeah, join the club, I don't want my watches getting covered in baby sick, so I tend to stick to none or cheap, but my guy has a thing for watches and especially square faced ones and my eye keeps getting drawn to this one because it looks vaguely 70's and sexy. I think you might be right about it being a Bulova, yeah.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Of course Ianto's actually in charge. We're just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Have we ever discussed how stupid/brilliant Jack was to hire Ianto? What does Ianto control? It's quite a list.

1. Teaboy -- He has access to all of their food. Even after he hid a cyberwoman in the basement. HE COULD KILL OR DRUG THEM ALL.

2. Computer & Archive Admin -- If he doesn't have access to every piece of information, every piece of equipment, and every alien artifact in TW, it's only a matter of time given his computer hacking, memory, and research skills. We've even seen this happen this series. HE KNOWS EVERYTHING. Or at least suspects everything. And has a pretty damn good idea how to find out everything.

3. Butler -- HE HAS ACCESS TO JACK'S HOLE. And all his personal belongings. 'Nuff said.

4. Chauffeur -- He maintains and drives the SUV. Please see above re: HE CAN KILL THEM ALL.

Add to this the fact that he's obviously pretty damned intelligent, capable of reading others, and very adept at becoming what others want to see...and you've got the power behind the throne.

Fortunately, it seems he may be a beneficent ruler.

[tencrush]

Bonus points for mentioning Jack's hole there.

I used to think that Ianto being the sekrit brains behind everything was a fannish delusion of mine, it's kind of what I based the whole l33t manwhorespy thing on. But I really do think we're starting to get shown canon evidence that this is, in fact, the case. I always assumed that given his background at TW1 and the obvious shambles that is TW3, Ianto had some sort of project going on involving at least bringing some sort of order to their archives and procedures and I figured that made him more of a pivotal figure than the rest of the team realised. Given his interactions with Jack in recent episodes, I now think he's more of a pivotal figure than even HE realises.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

And since I've started thinking about Adrift, I'd like to bring up THAT SCENE again.

I think the Hub has undergone a bit of a transformation this series. Despite the fact that Jack has always lived there, it's pretty much been a workplace and he beds down in the back of the shop. But now that Jack's in a relationship, it's starting to feel much more like Jack and Ianto's home. They are there together alone at night, they appear to be having sex in every room, Ianto never seems to go home, etc. So the Hubbies need to get used to the fact that if they walk into the Hub at night, they might actually interrupt something private. This doesn't seem to even occur to Gwen despite the fact that the alarm is set, the lights are low, no one answers her call, etc.

So when Ianto runs after her, I agree that it's because Ianto understands that Jack is not going to handle this very well at all and that he might do something really crazy like let Little Jack hang out and meet Gwen. Ianto attempts to make this transition from the Hub as workplace to the Hub as Jack's home easier for Gwen by re-establishing the workplace element so that Gwen doesn't feel awkward or reluctant to come to the Hub at night again. Although if she's got any red blood in her veins, she should show up the next time with a video camera. Anyway, it's as if he's sort of saying that the home life isn't going to get in the way of the work life. Ianto almost has to do this to maintain a decent working relationship with the team when he's the one sleeping with the boss.

[holdingoff.livejournal.com]

without running back through every s2 episode, have we seen jack come up from the manhole this season?

we've never seen where ianto lives...

just a little synapse misfire maybe, but still.

[etharei.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with your points :D But then, I've been a fervent Ianto fangirl since S1.

I'd actually take it one step further and propose that the spatial-temporal wellbeing of Cardiff rests on Ianto Jones' hands. Because, after all, the others may stop things from going pear-shaped and KABOOM, but for a city to function and people to live relatively normal lives, you need a guy who can keep things running smoothly in-between the saving-the-world escapades, keep up the coffee, and keep track of the Retcon.

[tencrush]

I've been a fervent Ianto fangirl since S1.

Same here, and that's the problem really, in my head, he's ALWAYS been a ninja manwhorespy (but then I turned out to be RIGHT about that), AND he's always secretly run the place. I'm just trying to find actual canon evidence now to back up my assertion that he absolutely runs the place in a Sir Humphrey style.

I flew over here from torchwoodcoffee...

[stopwatch-plz.livejournal.com]

and I'm about to fly out my door, but I wanted to say that yes, I agree with a lot of what you say, especially the last bit... The fact that Ianto chased after her and not Jack I thought showed that Jack just really wasn't all that bothered about her, really. DO feel a bit sorry for Ianto being caught in the middle so much though, but hey, he's the one shagging the hot boss so it's all ok ;)

Gonna read the meta post when I'm back from going out (Dr Who exhibition, yay! *lol*)

Re: I flew over here from torchwoodcoffee...

[tencrush]

... showed that Jack just really wasn't all that bothered about her, really.
Which just goes to show that his people skills aren't all that great. On a personal level, he can be as not bothered as he likes, but AS HER BOSS, he should be bothered, because it's his job. All too often at the moment, Jack seems to be just that little bit childish when it comes to being in charge, leaving Ianto trailing after (or ahead of) him to pick up the pieces or keep the peace.

[cayendi.livejournal.com]

I really need to re-read this at leasure, at some point, but I don't really have the time right now.
I wanted to make one point though.
Yes, I do think Ianto manages a lot of Torchwood behind the scenes, but ...
I really don't think Jack is crap at managing the place.
a) he's worked for Torchwood for over a century on a free-lance basis. He knows how Torchwood worked then, and what he wants to turn it into. Ianto may know everything, but Jack knows Torchwood 3 like the back of his hand.
b) Ianto wasn't hired until 2005 (I say 2005, since it's 2007 in the Torchwood timeline and he was hired almost 2 years before Fragments). That means that Jack ran the place for 5 years before Ianto took over some of the tasks.
So, while I think he shipped off a lot of the hassle to Ianto, I really don't think it's fair to say Jack has poor managerial skills. I also don't think that having been a conman implies he's bad with money. There is absolutely no evidence to support that theory.

As for the SUV. Jack was NOT the one ordering it, or having it fitted out. Alex Hopkins did, on 7 october 1999 (as mentioned in the episode files on BBC's Torchwood site - it's not on http://community.livejournal.com/iantos_desktop yet, but I have no doubt it will be soon)

And as for Flat Holme (spelling?). Jack said HE set the place up. I don't think it has anything to do with Torchwood money. I think Jack financed it personally. If it was a Torchwood venture, I think the rest would know about it.

[tencrush]

I'm not really talking about Jack managing Torchwood, as such, I'm talking about Jack not being a very good manager when it comes to people. He seems to want to be everyone's friend/father/lover/mentor/buddy whenever the mood arises, and he's the sort of guy who will walk out on a staff meeting because he's put his foot down and he doesn't want anymore arguments. He's not the greatest BOSS, his ability to manage PEOPLE leaves a lot to be desired, look what happened to Suzie, look what happened with Ianto right beneath his nose, he just doesn't pay enough attention, or only pays attention when it suits him. Besides that, I can't imagine he's got the best organisational skills, he just doesn't come across that way.

When it comes to finances, there's a few points, really. It's been shown that, about 21 months ago, Canafy Wharf happened, it's been implied on the website and in the timeline that Ianto was hired very quickly afterwards (the Canary Wharf episode was indeed on TV 21 months ago, and TW seems to be heading into a real time thing, judging from their emails). Jack told the Doctor TW1 was pretty much defunct afterwards and he was rebuilding it, and he told Ianto he severed all ties with TW1. Now I have every reason to believe, having seen the place, that TW1 served as headquarters for the entire Torchwood Institute. Remember, the Institute had front companies, owned all sorts of property, and all sorts of bizarre things going on. It had hundreds of employees and one would assume that the London office had some sort of administrative department, taking care of things like investments, property, staff etc. I think it's therefore reasonably plausible to assume that until Canary Wharf happened and Jack severed all ties, financially he was probably just working under TW1, and not as a separate financial unit. There is no, and has never been any, administrative staff at TW3, so I would assume wages and things like buying SUVs were things that TW1 took care of by allocating funds to the various departments and branches of the organisation. So as far as organising and running a separate financial unit, I don't think Jack has ever done so until just before he hired Ianto, and given the tasks and skills of the other members of the team, it would be most plausible that Ianto would have been the one to help him administrate it. I'm not saying Jack's bad with money, I have no evidence to back that up, I'm saying Jack doesn't strike me as the most organised financial manager in the alien hunting business.

You bring up an interesting point re. Flat Holm, though Ianto DID know about it, so that argument's not quite so valid. But then Ianto is sleeping with Jack, so he would know a lot about a lot of things. It's possible Jack did fund it himself. I find myself actually wondering what Jack means, exactly, when he says he severed all ties. I actually think it might well be the case that Torchwood as it stands now, since the fall of the London Office, is funded for a large part by Jack himself. One has to wonder what he means when he says he's "rebuilding" it, and under whose auspices exactly he's doing that. Jack told the Doctor there were only 7 people left in Torchwood, and at the time he said that, 5 of them were in Cardiff. Maybe Jack just IS Torchwood now. You can't exactly "sever ties" as a branch of a quasi-governmental organisation. Unless you're willing to fund yourself.

The thing about the SUV, that just sucks, I hate it when canon interferes with fanon. Embossing a car is just SO JACK. It's the car equivalent of wearing a billowy greatcoat. Damn the BBC.

[xel1980.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah... Ianto is like Jack's wife and the team's Mom... x°D
Ok, it seems like a joke but it's quite true... Wives/moms do that stuff everyday...

[sufferingfool.livejournal.com]

Hehe! I get what you mean...

I think Ianto's a better wife than Hart was ;) Must be!

[sufferingfool.livejournal.com]

Before the episode Fragments, I suspected that Ianto Jones had come up the civil servant route. Why? Because he is so organised. He's not that old, after all. He's 24, and yet he has a lot of skills and experiences is various fields. He knows how to hack computers. Not as well as Toshiko, but well enough to have wiped Gwen's computer. He deals with where bodies resurfaces, as mentioned early in the series. He takes care of the car (remember how pissed off he gets whenever they endanger *his* SUV?) and most likely, as the post mentioned, the finances. Jack has no head for numbers, not really, and 21st Century accounting would be too boring for Jack to stomach. Ianto, however, has a natural head for numbers (Remember when he was at the supermarket and managed to keep track of how much money the girl was spending?) as well as for general knowledge. He knows Cardiff very well, and it seems quite a leap for a young man (he'd be 20 when he joined Torchwood London) to have travelled to London without any real qualifications and get picked up by Torchwood.

He also survived Canary Wharf. With a Cyberwoman to drag with him. Somehow, Ianto Jones managed to do all that, get her to Cardiff without anyone knowing, clearly researching Jack Harkness (learning his likes and dislikes. Most likely discovered that Jack liked men in suits) and managing to manipulate a situation and Jack into letting him become a member of Torchwood. Ianto Jones is resourceful and clearly intelligent. So it seems only natural that he takes care of everything, everything! that the others can't do.

Oh, and he makes a mean cup of coffee...

[tildathebuilder.livejournal.com]

Hello!

I have been perusing your lj this evening. I like your humour and your meta, so I'm friending you if that's ok.

I like your theories about Ianto's role in TW and his relation ship with Jack, very interesting (It's a pity I don't have anything useful to add!)

[virginhuntress.livejournal.com]

I know that I'm coming into this UBER late, but I just had to say....thank GOD that Ianto was the one to come in and diffuse the situation.

For Christsake, Jack strolled out onto the walkway half shirtless and with his undies SHOWING. I love that it that JB was cool with it, since it really fits Jack to the letter, but yeah. Ianto actually bothered with getting dressed before really talking to Gwen.

I'm reading all your AWESOME metas and am going to friend you, if that's ok. :D