Torchwood - Fragments, thoughts about THAT scene

[tencrush]

kateorman had a really out-there theory that there were erections involved in this encounter. (No! Surely not! I JEST, KATE.)



The theory suprised me because it hadn't yet occurred to me that there might be people out there who thought there were NO erections involved in this encounter. Though it does seem the jury's still out on who was most excitable, Jack or Ianto.

But yeah, my theory is that there was MUTUAL trouser stirring going on here. And it's what's finally punched Ianto in the face as to what he's willing to do and what that ACTUALLY means. In theory, with the jeans and the cruising and all the rest of it, sex has always been a part of the plan, but here's where it hits him what he might actually have to do. And, to really bring on the tears: THAT HE MIGHT ACTUALLY ENJOY IT. How much of a betrayal is that?

I think there's a whole other level to this scene which isn't even really about sex at all, and it's about enjoyment and fun. I don't know if you've noticed, but Ianto's having fun with Jack, catching Myfanwy, it's all adrenaline and running around and laughing, and this is a guy who, one would assume, has a cybergirlfriend IN HIS SHED as we speak. One that he's been looking after and is obviously desperate to fix since Canary Wharf happened, and since Canary Wharf happened, I can't imagine this guy's been having much fun. At all. You see, I think it's not just the fact that there's attraction and arousal going on that worries Ianto, it's the fact that he is actually having fun. His whole objective is to save Lisa, the girl he can't live without, and in saving her, or keeping her safe in any case, he may well end up proving that he CAN live without her. Which defeats the object of the exercise. Not only, I think, do his tears signify his own disgust at the levels to which he'll stoop and the fact that he might even enjoy stooping to them, but also every single one of his doubts and fears about whether saving her was actually the right thing to do. Did he do it for her or did he do it for himself? Should he have just let her go? I think this moment of doubt and tears also shows us the point at which saving Lisa to Ianto, who presumably has since Canary Wharf, been running on adrenaline and single bloody-mindedness, starts to become less of a love thing, and more of an obsession. He HAS TO save her now, in order to prove to himself that he did the right thing saving her in the first place and that he's doing the right thing in stooping to the levels he'll stoop to to save her now. He's effectively trapped himself.


That's my take, anyway. Well, part of it. I've had trouble talking about this episode because GDL really, really blew me away with this one, more or less leaving me dribbling on the sofa for a few days. He conveys SO MUCH IN SO LITTLE TIME, again, as always. Awe-inspiring. I think I could discuss this one for MONTHS.

Comments

[tencrush]

Yeah, I find it really funny, reading back now, I knew, going into series 2, that Ianto was attracted to Jack, but back at the time of Cyberwoman, I knew no such thing, I even wrote that there was attraction on Jack's part but I JUST DIDN'T KNOW if it was seriously reciprocated, or if it was all just sex being used as a distraction. My personal belief is that payback sex took place between Lisa's death and Ianto's return to the Hub at the end of the episode. A kind of wiping clean of the slate, as it were. (I think sex as distraction took place before then, because I do believe they were having sex all along) I think Jack's surprise in TKKS is down to the fact that he thought they were even on the sex front. I think he's genuinely surprised and even happy to find out that the sex wasn't all about Ianto trying to pull the wool over his eyes, but there was genuine attraction involved. And boy, does Jack's reaction in Cyberwoman make more sense now, eh? I love when they retcon something purely to explain JB's overacting.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'My personal belief is that payback sex took place between Lisa's death and Ianto's return to the Hub at the end of the episode. I think Jack's surprise in TKKS is down to the fact that he thought they were even on the sex front.' I never thought about that, but it makes SO much sense :D

'I love when they retcon something purely to explain JB's overacting.' *snickers*

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I started watching this series with KKBB so from my perspective, I was introduced to a Jack and Ianto who were attracted to each other. When I first went back to S1, I only watched the Jack/Ianto scenes first and so I was all 'OF COURSE they were attracted to each other before CW that's what is causing all the crying and the screaming and the punching and the gun porn and the get on your knees and the monster accusations. So when I realized that part of fandom was wondering how we got from Jack/Team killing Lisa to Jack/Ianto dabbling, I was surprised because I assumed all along that Ianto was attracted to Jack and eaten alive with guilt about it and that Jack felt betrayed because he thought he had the inside track on getting into Ianto's pants. So once all that got out of the way and Jack was willing to forgive Ianto, then Ianto would eventually come back to life enough to feel he wanted to dabble and perhaps to make good on his implicit promise to Jack re: sexual favors. Or maybe explicit promise if you think he was sleeping with Jack all along.

I can go either way about the sex. I think there's enough here to make the dynamics in CW work without a sexual relationship because I suspect Ianto would torment himself just as much over mental infidelity as physical infidelity. And I think Jack is possessive enough that just thinking Ianto is his is enough for him to go psycho even if Ianto isn't actually his in a sexual sense. I suspect Jack would feel betrayed by just Ianto's flirting even if there was no sex. However, I agree with your point about the stopwatch scene (if I'm doing you justice here in how I'm recollecting it) that it comes off as a tad strange that Ianto would initiate a sexual relationship by suggesting something that signifies kink in TV lingo. That seems like something strange to come right out of nowhere without some prior sexual history. So if they were having sex before TKKS, it wouldn't bother me and it would fit; I just think it can fit without that so I'm not much fussed either way at this point.

It's interesting to see how much roleplaying their current sex life includes because of course Ianto has been playing a role with Jack since he met him. I'm not 100% sure I know what it means.

But just as we have to factor in JB's acting choices, we also have to factor in that the writers may just have been rather clueless. GDL just commented again that Ianto was meant to die in S1 and it seems that other than CW, the writers hadn't much story planned for him. So they might just have said, 'let's add this subtextual kinky sex thing with Jack' without considering that the viewers might need more foundation. So maybe the writers don't even know when Ianto started sexxin sexie Jak (if I may be so bold as to quote the hilarious sam_storyteller).

But as retcon, Ianto's backstory is rather brilliant so I wonder if they read your LJ and stole it all from you. :-) Doesn't think make you want to rewatch all of S1? When the team is gossiping about Jack's background over Chinese food and Ianto shares his theory that Jack is CIA, is Ianto deliberately trying to mislead the team? When I first saw S1 I thought Ianto might know a bit more about Jack than the rest of the team because he has access to the archives but now I think he knew ALOT about Jack because of the manwhorespying as well as the comments Jack dropped during the sexy stalking so it makes the comments seem deliberating misleading.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Jack is a bad man seeking forgiveness. I wonder if this is the reason for his tendency to forgive his team when they screw up, kill him, etc.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Ianto's prim "And I don't care [whether Jack is gay]" takes on a whooooolllllle new meaning.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

...because I'm shagging him blind."

:-)

[off_coloratura]

My personal belief is that payback sex took place between Lisa's death and Ianto's return to the Hub at the end of the episode.

Now that's what I'd like to see. How Ianto made it up to Jack.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

I second that :D