Torchwood - Fragments

[tencrush]

Fragmented because this one kind of killed me a little and I don't think I've quite recovered.

Okay, story by story, then:

Jack

• Again with the overacting, JB! Get a grip. You're dead, we get it.


• Yeah, okay, so maybe the Victorian steampunk lesbians were a bit over the top, but I do kind of like the implication that once you start working for Torchwood and associating with alien life forms, human categories of gender and race and such perhaps do start to seem terribly arbitrary. Even in Victorian times.


• I wish bustles were still in fashion. They're kind of hot.

Tosh

• I thought this one was kind off dull, I must admit. Though Tosh is a technical genius, it's always nice to see that on screen, they don't show enough of her l33t skills.


• And WTF happened to UNIT?? I've mentioned Guantanamo before in discussions about this season, but really. UNIT? I never thought they'd go there.

Ianto

• Jones, Ianto Jones. Wait... is that a l33t manwhorespy I see before me?? Remember when that was a funny thing I made up? I'm so glad they went with it. I really, really, really am.


• His background story is a plant, yes? Give me one good reason Yvonne Hartman's Torchwood would hire a 20-year-old average-student drifter from Wales... with a shoplifting conviction? NOPE, NO WAY. Also, the excerpts from his diary in Adam seem to imply he has some sort of engineering background, he seems highly skilled technologically, and he seems to know all sort of non-technical stuff as well. Basically, he seems to be REALLY CLEVER. See also "surviving Canary Wharf and getting his girlfriend out"


• HIS FAMILY ARE ALL DEAD, YES? I'm not going to say it again, peeps, pay attention. (Either that or he really is the Doctor's son, right? Ianto, John junior?)


• The Ianto Jones school of being a manwhorespy is a really thorough one, isn't it? The Dressing and looking and walking and talking like you're cruising the park for gay sex module is one where he paid a lot of attention, I noticed. Adjusting your wardrobe until you hit the right kink and then running with that as hard as you was can also a popular subject. And when all else fails, make coffee, catch a dinosaur, roll around the floor... in short, cheat. I like this school.


• Oh, and I'm usually the first to be annoyed when Ianto cries, as well you know, but that small bit there was the nicest bit of characterisation I've ever seen in this show and was absolutely fucking wonderfully done. I don't want this boy to EVER be off my screen AGAIN. I LOVE that he's attracted to Jack even while Lisa's still alive, I still maintain they were probably having no-strings sex right from when he was hired, or at least at whatever time Ianto felt the need to REALLY distract Jack from the cyberchick in the basement. And I love seeing how he feels about whoring himself out like that. Beautiful.


• I'm very tempted to say the "51st centrury pheromones" line is just a continuity error on the part of the writers that nobody picked up on. If not, it's HELLA INTERESTING.


• Can you tell this was my favourite bit?

Owen

• Nah. Don't try to make me care about him this late in the proceedings. It's not going to wash.


• Though: brain eating alien? Coooool.

Don't know what I made of Captain John. I'll wait and see.

Comments

[off_coloratura]

His background story is a plant, yes? Give me one good reason Yvonne Hartman's Torchwood would hire a 20-year-old average-student drifter from Wales... with a shoplifting conviction? NOPE, NO WAY.

She's a people person!

No, but seriously. Jack could just be exaggerating the negative. Or maybe Lisa brought some focus to Ianto's life and got him in with a recommendation, and he discovered his squandered potential. But either way, yeah, the thing Jack spiels does not resemble Our Ianto in any way.

Which is to say: manwhorespy. In every sense of the word. Well done, you.

Did you notice the tiny edges of desperation he let creep through, though? Not TOTALLY l33t yet. His nervousness at the coffee (which I like to think he'd brewed several cups of till he got it just right) and his desperation RIGHT AFTER he mentions TW3's looting of TW1 (and taking all the valuable Cyberequipment he needs to keep Lisa alive). Oh, brilliant and beautiful and god I love him.

However, the listing off of things he could do "Receptionist! Building services! Food and drink! Butler, I could be your butler!" made me cringe a little, as if he was trying to show Jack the depths to which he would stoop to join Torchwood. But then, after thinking about it a bit, I realized he wants to be under the radar, to paint himself as someone to whom all those ESSENTIAL PIECES OF CYBEREQUIPMENT wouldn't mean anything whatsoever. Nonthreatening. Safe to hire. Oh, Jones Ianto Jones, you're good.

I am also uncertain as to how much of the panting on top of Jack was calculated and then "oh, shit, what have I sunk to" and how much of it was attraction and shame. I MUST assume that Ianto has feelings for him now, of course, but the point at which the relationship (and I do believe there was one before CW) turned from show to actual feelings is still unclear for me.

The Owen we saw in the flashback bears abslutely no resemblance to any Owen we've seen up till now. But Burn Gorman is a terrific actor, so I was moved. A good actor can sell the crappiest of retcon.

We only see Ianto once, falling down, in the trailer. PLEASE TELL ME HE DOES NOT DIE NEXT EPISODE. He's the best damn thing on this show.

[tencrush]

She's a people person!

Or, of course, my personal fanon, he fucked her. Perhaps again with an agenda, maybe his family aren't dead but were abducted by aliens and he needed access to TW to find out what happened to them?
*handwaves crazy-style*

[off_coloratura]

That is indeed crazy. Infiltrating TWO DIFFERENT Torchwoods, successfully, for reasons of Personal Spyage? I think the slight desperateness of his attempts with Jack indicates someone not QUITE as pulled together as that.

And YET, knowing Torchwood, not out of the realm of possibility.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Well. I'm not sure about the fucking but I could believe that Ianto's family was wiped out or kidnapped or something by aliens and that prompted him joining TW. Maybe he has a long lost little sister. If he finds her, maybe she can date Grey.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Yes, it came off to me as if this was his FIRST manwhorespy attempt. He let some desperation come through as well as some impatience with Jack at various points. He couldn't quite conceal Ianto entirely under the personae he was trying to create to lure Jack. And ultimately, Jack was ensnared when he got a glimpse of the real Ianto, not the facades. I almost imagined Ianto sitting down with pen, paper, and some books writing up various ways to approach Jack.

I also cringed at the list (and the desperation underneath it all) but perhaps you're right and he wanted to get into a position where he was underestimated.

I just hope he wasn't offering his sexual services to Jack in the subtext. That does bother me a bit. I think the panting may be unplanned. They were having a great time and laughing at first, then I think the adrenaline led them into the sexual situation. I think Ianto may have actually been caught up in it himself genuinely, forgot what he was doing, felt the attraction himself, then freaked out because he couldn't bring himself to use it to his advantage. Jumping up wasn't Ianto trying to tease Jack, I think it was Ianto realizing that he himself was swept up in a moment and that also he wasn't able to actually go quite that far to whore himself out.

I mean, could Jack have WANTED to be kissed any more than what we saw? I mean, he was actually sort of moving his head around as if imagining they WERE kissing. I guess it could be that Ianto was being calculated enough to think he'd better further his objective by withholding the kiss from Jack and teasing him with the UST, but I just don't see Ianto as being quite that sophisticated in his manwhorespying at that point in time.

[off_coloratura]

I totally agree with you, it looked unplanned to me too, and that he was caught up in it. I was only wondering whether he actually did feel an attraction for Jack at that moment, or whether he recognized the opportunity and just wasn't able to go there.

His tears would suggest the former, but I'm still not sure.

[tencrush]

I really got the impression it was the former, I must admit. And I didn't think it was planned either.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not sure we're going to be able to find any evidence either way because the evidence for either scenario likely looks the same and it comes down to interpretation. That's frustrating because I'd like to know, too. I think unless they tell us outright, we'll likely never know.

I agree that the tears suggest the former. But the tears could also just be sheer relief that he achieved his objective and was going to be able to help Lisa. He was under so much strain at that point that it's probably really hard to figure out what's causing all of it. One of the reasons I could never go along with the 'Ianto should have been fired and retconned' line of thinking was because I really think he was suffering from PTSD. It's amazing to me that he was even functional given what had happened at Canary Wharf and what he was trying to accomplish with Lisa.

My guess is that given that Ianto was laughing in a rather carefree, artless way right before that moment with Jack, I think Ianto felt the
attraction too. It seemed like a moment where all of the feelings were entirely shared between them and they were sort of swept up in the moment and then Ianto's brain kicked in.

I've always thought given how angry Ianto got at Jack during CW and how he denied that Jack was his last kiss in CC that Ianto was genuinely attracted to Jack while Lisa was still alive and those feelings of guilt were part of what was making Ianto act so irrationally. If he was genuinely attracted to Jack (and not just stringing him along to blind him to what Ianto was doing) then his guilt over betraying Lisa like that might have made him even more determined to save her when otherwise he might have come to his senses.

All of this backstory is making my brain explode.

[off_coloratura]

We won't be able to find evidence either way, because "ambiguity" is this show's middle name and is the primary way it keeps people watching. By making things deliberately vague they draw us into guessing what might be going on, discussing much like we're doing now.

Not to mention vagueness covers up a multitude of bad-writing sins. And then when they DO get specific, like in tonight's episode, it uncovers holes in the world and the characterizations big enough to drive an SUV through.

But of course, that just gives us more fuel to wanwank with.

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

a big yes to all of what's been said here. And I do believe that was genuine emotion with Jack, and his reaction was part of the shock of realizing a real attraction despite his devotion to Lisa. It just makes the whole first part of the first season so much more heartbreaking. He was betraying both of them, in a way.

Except, while I can absolutely believe this was Ianto's first attempt at manwhorespying, I don't think that this was his first con job. I don't know. Just an impression.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I think they did an excellent job showing us some of Ianto's story but raising lots of interesting questions for the future.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Yes, fragmented describes how the audience feels after having to reconcile all this backstory with two series worth of episodes. My head is still reeling and I'm not sure what I think.

I do think that this is absolutely one of my favorite episodes. I also think that those who think GDL can't act should watch this episode because this is what happens when GDL actually gets some decently written material. Adam would be another example of that (although not the crying in the rain, that was odious). I also think that I'd like a few less Gwen-centric episodes next series, please. While I like her, I don't really like how she dominates so many episodes. More balance, please. More Ianto, please.

One of the things I absolutely loved about the manwhorespying was how Ianto did try to apply intellect to the problem. As you say, he tried various costumes and approaches and scenarios to try to lure Jack. What I loved about it was that you could sort of feel how artificial it was on some level because it all did seem to be a bit out of a textbook course on how to seduce a man but at the same time, Ianto's natural intelligence and humor kept peeking out, as well as his desperation. I rather imagined Ianto out on the internet looking things up to try out on Jack while at the same time going through whatever materials he managed to sneak out of TW1. GDL gave that performance a lot of layers, I thought. It helped me get over the fact that with GDL having really aged a bit (and the pies, the pies!) it was a little hard to accept him as a younger Ianto when I can so clearly see the baby-faced Ianto of S1. I love S2 Ianto, but he doesn't look like a kid anymore to me as he did last series.

What I thought was rather brilliant was the Myfanwy scene because that was the moment when the costume and the act was sort of stripped away and we had just Ianto and Jack, having fun capturing her and then having that adrenaline rush end up transforming into a jolt of sexual desire. I think Jack hired Ianto not just because he wanted to get in his pants but because he had a moment of connection with the real Ianto that made him want him on the team. And on Ianto's part, the moment was real, too, hence the breakdown. He has what he wanted and it's a relief because he can help Lisa but at the same time Jack is now a person to him not just an objective and he's a person towards whom Ianto may actually have feelings of some type. And I've not doubt they were both sexually aroused which probably triggered all sorts of guilt and shame on Ianto's part because it means he's betraying both Lisa and Jack.

Awesome stuff there. I'm still on the fence as to whether there was sex before the stopwatch. Although I'm very much in agreement that Jack's surprise in that scene means something relevant and can't be attributed just to JB's bad acting choices. I'm just not sure if it means that Jack never thought he'd have Ianto AGAIN after CW or if he had always thought it was a matter of time that he'd GET Ianto but realized he'd been had after CW and had given up on him. Okay, that's a rather convoluted way of expressing myself but I'm still all discombobulated after the episode.

I totally agree with you that Ianto's family is dead, dead, dead. I'm wondering, though, if Ianto would have been able to manwhorespy his way into TW1 and to what purpose? Jack isn't exactly the most competent leader on the block and certainly he was easier to manipulate than the folks running TW1. I'm wondering if Ianto was helped (either with or without his knowledge) for some reason that we (or even Ianto) don't know about yet. Someone needed a man at TW1, so to speak.

Let me congratulate you on MANWHORESPY -- you are brilliant indeed!

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

What I thought was rather brilliant was the Myfanwy scene because that was the moment when the costume and the act was sort of stripped away and we had just Ianto and Jack, having fun capturing her and then having that adrenaline rush end up transforming into a jolt of sexual desire. I think Jack hired Ianto not just because he wanted to get in his pants but because he had a moment of connection with the real Ianto that made him want him on the team. And on Ianto's part, the moment was real, too, hence the breakdown.

If you expand on their first meeting - hunting weevils - and then their first attraction - catching Myfanwy - it makes Jack's scene in Adrift so much more meaningful.

Jack has these new pants and he's getting ready to go out. He's really excited and that's clear when he tells Gwen he's going weevil hunting with Ianto. We could easily figure out that was some sort of date, and that they liked to this together from that scene in Adam. But then add that this was the way they met, and it makes it sort of sentimental. Perversely romantic even. More than just guy bonding. It's relationship building. They are sooo in love. Hee.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

Perversely romantic may be the key phrase for this relationship. Jack and Ianto are perversely romantic! :-)

One of the comments that Gwen threw at everyone in Meat was that she is the only one with a relationship outside TW. That is certainly true because TW makes relationships almost impossible and also because most of them seem to either have no family or be estranged from that family.

But Ianto and Jack have found a way to forget a relationship inside TW. They go on missions together. They presumably 'christen' every room in the Hub. They spend time together in the Hub after everyone goes home. We're starting to be able to tell that they discuss things that the others don't know about because they get referenced in episodes. Ianto is, I think, pretty much the perfect companion for Jack in a lot of ways because he's willing to fashion himself to what Jack needs to a certain extent by allowing the relationship to flourish within the confines of what TW will allow. Now whether Ianto will continue to find that fulfilling or whether Ianto will want something more traditional, who knows.

Whereas Gwen built her relationship with Jack through talking, Ianto built his relationship with Jack through actions. And Ianto is good at ferreting out things that Jack might not want everyone to know. :-)

I'm still unsure exactly what Jack feels for Ianto. I really want to see a big ILY on screen because I'm a soppy romantic that way. Just once. :-)