OH, and...

[tencrush]

I know I've been saying this for ages, : JACK IS SO DEAD.

It's called the Immortality Gate, ffs.


ANYWAY: Contrary to what those crazy mousies at who_anon think, I am keeping calm about the PDF. I have no desire to blow up over it, it's Christmas. I will be saying one or two things about it soon, but not right now, I've got turkeys to baste.

Comments

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

BUT HE'S MPREGNANT WITH IANTO'S CHILD

[tencrush]

He's deader than dead. He's a dead man. When will people start listening to me? It's a festive threesome this year of Lucy, Wilf and Jack. Ho ho ho.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

What does this mean for Torchwood, we ask ourselves? Two words: Captain Andy. w000000

[tencrush]

I doubt it. I don't like being this cynical, but it does look like the batshit PDF-wielding Iantofen are right when they say that TW CoE was just a convenient way for RTD to ditch the entire premise of seasons one and two, do away with Jack and essentially pitch Excalibur again. I don't like to think that way, but it's very hard not to, given the circumstances.

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

Remind me about Excalibur. I seem to remember it, but only vaguely. It was the treatment before JB came into play, correct?

The only reason I could see him getting rid of Jack, and I don't think the BBC will let him, is because now that Moffat has taken over he knows he's fucked if he wants to abuse use the Whoverse again. No Jack means no need for the Doctor. Ever.

Still, I don't buy that the BBC would allow it. It's the "Jack Show" and they know it. It all comes down to money, and in money, JB wins.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I'd miss the characters, of course, but an RTD-driven Torchwood would be really something. Bring it on!

[jo02]

" I've got turkeys to baste. "
Sounds absolutely wonderful.

And on a completely unrelated topic, because I saw an advert for it today, are you still Zumba'ing?

[tencrush]

I was supposed to go last night, but for the first time, I skipped it because I thought it was too cold to go out. So yes, faithfully up to just now.

[caledonius72.livejournal.com]

I thought that too, after reading the immortal words "Immortality Gate" - I had a lightning flash and thought, who in the Whoinverse is immortal?

Bye bye Jack - we must have a wake for the coat.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Yes, "Immortality Gate" immediately made me think of a certain someone. I'm still hoping that maybe Jack will be stripped of his immortality and sent back to Torchwood as a mere mortal. They can't keep touting this "realistic drama" crap on the new and improved (ha!) Torchwood if Jack keeps having silly deaths without any repercussions IMO. Plus, wouldn't that turn the knife a bit more knowing that if Ianto had lived to series 4, he and newly mortal Jack could've had a shot at a real relationship?? Ah, drama!

Or it gives an easy explanation as to why the Doctor may have more lives coming to him than he should.

Or maybe it'll give The Master a permanent John Simm appearance with only an occasional change in hair color. I wouldn't have a problem with that!

Combination of the above?

[caledonius72.livejournal.com]

So jack get's the time vortex energy sucked out of him and the Doctor gets the benefit. How speshul ;-)

If Jack can't die and revive in nu-TW, then that stupid element in CoE of Jack being killed quite so much is redundant, and they'd have to come up with something that looks like a plot.

Oh the man!pain for Jack of knowing that he could have built something worthwhile with Ianto. Srs drama.

"O hai, Yan-toe, i iz back and i iz fixed. Wanna get married? o noes, u is still ded! WAAAAHHH!!!1!!"

TBH - who knows what crack!fic Uncle Rusty has come up with. But expect fridging and a wipe out of the cast like they had in Dynasty at the wedding in Moldavia (showing my age now).

"Mr Moffat? Here's that clean slate you wanted."

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Either that or it's a cunning way to waive the entire 13 Regenerations Only Clause forever... now THAT would make RTD immortal in the Whoniverse...

[tencrush]

There's a persistent rumour doing the rounds that Eleven is actually One, and will have 13 regenerations. Maybe he'll just have unlimited ones.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

That would be... weird...

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

I thought that was just a misunderstanding. It's season 1 because it's Moffat's season 1 as showrunner. New EP, new head of BBC Wales, and if I understand correctly, new funding source?

Then again, Moffat would be able to pull off the reset. RTD might get credit for it, but I guarantee that it was Moffat's idea on how to do it, and as a starting point. They do have to do something about the regeneration issue soon anyway. I'd just rather it be under Moffat's umbrella.

In case no one has guessed, yes, I'm a Moffat fantard. I loved his writing long before new Who. I feel completely confident in saying that whatever he produces will be miles better than the tripe we're being subjected to now.

[caledonius72.livejournal.com]

I was wondering how they were going to get around that Clause.

I love it - Jack is the fuel for the Doctors continued existence beyond his allotted allocation of regenerations. Oh the buckets of angst that will give the Doctor!

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

I don't want Jack dead :/ Plus, he's already the Face of Boe, so dying would be a bit too wibbly wobbly... not that I put it past RTD, even though he always claimed it was Moffat's decision what to do with jack

[tencrush]

It's a bit of a question, really. On the one hand, I know Moffat's had a say in what he wants from the specials, ie, what point RTD should be working towards, so Jack may well have been part of that. Moffat's never really sounded too enthused about keeping Jack on and that whole two-year thing has always been touted by Russell in quite a bitchy "That's MOFFAT'S STORY!" kind of way, that makes me suspect the character of Jack, and possibly where the character of Jack went in Torchwood, was a bone of contention between the two of them. He might have been told to axe Jack.

On the other hand, I know Moffat doesn't want to go with this whole angst thing too much, thank fuck, and sacrificing Jack for the sake of the Doctor's longevity might not be a popular choice in that regard. Though I wouldn't put it past Russell to do it for precisely that reason.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

What happened to the Good Old 'Oh, we'll just never mention her/him ever again'? I MISS THAT, now it's all biting nails if a character survives or not. Well, however it turns out, the wankstorm will be even more fantastic than the Ianto campaigns

[tencrush]

I don't actually think it will be that fantastic. If Jack gets killed off, Torchwood fandom will just roll over and die, there's not enough Gwen fans to sustain it. I think all the guff about a series 4 is just misdirection to distract us from the fact that Jack's going to die. On the plus side the no-S4-without-Ianto campaign will at least die a death.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

I don't think Jack's dead. At least not in any meaningful way that would affect his tenure on Torchwood. I can't imagine JB touting a S4 for Torchwood, even an imagined one, if the result of past and upcoming events is that he's basically been ousted from the show that was supposed to be his star vehicle. He doesn't strike me as the type to be that discrete if that were the case so he probably would have let something leak by now. I can see them possibly limiting JB's screentime in s4 and seeing how the season fares like that before phasing him out, but if there's a s4 I can't imagine him not being a part of it no matter what RTD's secret desires may be.

Plus I don't see his appearance in these specials being much more than a cameo so how significant can he really be?

[erinnthered.livejournal.com]

IKR? I can't wait to get back to the days of someone leaving the show...and just leaving the damn show!

Never to be seen or heard from again...until the next anniversary special or one off multi-Doctor story. You know, special occasions. *sigh*

[lukita.livejournal.com]

Yup, at least we had months to get ourselves ready for it.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

I agree. Personally I consider it a mercy killing; RTD basically killed Torchwood!Jack for me. A flawed hero is complex and interesting, but a incompetent hero (who's stupid plan gets his lover killed) is something else entirely.

[flohkatie.livejournal.com]

I totally agree, CoE!Jack is absolutely unredeemable for me. And not only because he got his lover killed but because I expect from a hero to come up with a plan that doesn't involve killing a child especially if your past actions or in his case non-action in the 60s is the reason it actually came to that. And losing your lover and killing your grandson doesn't change the fact that he was heavily involved in sacrificing those children in the past.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'I expect from a hero to come up with a plan that doesn't involve killing a child especially if your past actions or in his case non-action in the 60s is the reason it actually came to that.'
Yep. You would think that because Jack was so broken up over accidentally letting Gray's hand go when they were children (it was the story arch for an entire series) that he would have at least found a way not to kill his grandson, if not all those children. I'm guessing that IF Jack does come back to Torchwood, CoE won't be mentioned again; just like Jack's torture during The Year That Never Was or how Jack was buried alive for 2000 years.

[flohkatie.livejournal.com]

I guess it's a lose lose situation anyway. So I really hope he isn't coming back, I really can't think of a scenario with Jack involved that would work for me. My suspension of disbelief only goes this far, now that they have decided to go all srs on me.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'So I really hope he isn't coming back, I really can't think of a scenario with Jack involved that would work for me. My suspension of disbelief only goes this far, now that they have decided to go all srs on me.'
I know. When Torchwood was cracky fun, I could over look the HUGE plotholes and OOC characters, but now that they want it to be considered 'serous drama' not so much.

'I really can't think of a scenario with Jack involved that would work for me.'
Yeah, the writer really wrote Jack into a corner. Even if the other characters forget about it and it's never mentioned again, the audience will still remember.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it's a casual audience so they won't care. Give Jack enough time out in space before swinging back in to save the day and apparently that'll be good enough. Toss in the revelation of more relatives and loved ones Jack can sacrifice in a pinch and it's gold! Show practically writes itself.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Yes, but it's a casual audience so they won't care.'
So true. RTD has made it very clear that he doesn't need or want the main fanbase.

'Give Jack enough time out in space before swinging back in to save the day and apparently that'll be good enough. Toss in the revelation of more relatives and loved ones Jack can sacrifice in a pinch and it's gold! Show practically writes itself.'
Haha... it does write itself.

[eandh99.livejournal.com]

because the REAL fans aren't fans of TW or Jack or Ianto, they're fans of RTD! they love WHATEVER he does, they follow him everywhere, they worship him like a god because he BROUGHT BACK DOCTOR WHO. So yeah, to RTD this is just clearing the decks of those annoying popular characters so he can do what HE wants with TW.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'because the REAL fans aren't fans of TW or Jack or Ianto, they're fans of RTD! they love WHATEVER he does, they follow him everywhere, they worship him like a god because he BROUGHT BACK DOCTOR WHO.'
Of course. I guess I'm not a REAL fan. I've never understood what the big deal about RTD is. Yes, he's good at coming up with concepts (I loved the IDEA of Torchwood) but he really needs to leave the writing to someone else.

[stuffphile.livejournal.com]

I've thought so too, but when you predict a thing it seems almost certain to happen. STOP PREDICTING THINGS!

If that happens I will laugh--no, I'll probably cry my little fangirl eyes out, but I will think it extremely ironic.

Considering how much Jack's suffered, being immortal, fans probably ought to be happy for him if he dies. I'm imagining all the schmoopy TRULOVE fics sure to spring up where Jack joins Ianto in the afterlife (and trying not to vomit. Hey guys, remember how "no afterlife" is canon in the Whoniverse??)

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Hey and dif they do it right they can have a big sobby scene where Gwen gets to show she is the heart of TW - or at least the only left beating.

[kuroi-hemlock.livejournal.com]

JACK IS SO DEAD

Why do I not feel bad when I hear that?

[tencrush]

IKR? Weird.

[travellingone.livejournal.com]

I'm ok with Jack being dead. It works for me since I've already started checking out another fandom.


Bye TW, you were fun, never great, but you were cracky fun when you weren't trying to be all srs dramaz.