You all love my predictions, right?

[tencrush]

Has it occurred to anyone that, besides being completely empty rhetoric, all Russell's talk of a possible series 4 of Torchwood could just be yet another cynical ploy to get our hopes up for some sort of resolution re. Jack in the Who Christmas specials? When in fact, events in the Who Christmas specials will rule out a continuation of Torchwood alltogether? I'm angling there at Jack losing his immortality, dying or turning into the Face of Boe. Or something else. You see, I wouldn't put it past the manipulative little shit to play people this way, yet again, possibly in retaliation for the negative crit he got from the hysterical nine for Children of Earth. I think it's ALL bullshit. I don't think he's got a Torchwood Series 4 written or in the pipeline, and if he does, it's A DIFFERENT SHOW, WITH DIFFERENT PEOPLE, which he is still hoping to attach the Torchwood name to. Because there IS no future for the Torchwood we know, there's no Hub, no SUV, no Tosh, no Ianto, no Owen, no Myfanwy. Jack is gone, Gwen's having a baby, those are the two facts we're left with and frankly, that's not really an end you can start from.

I'm not a huge fan of the hysterical nine reaction to CoE, as you know. I don't want to campaign for a return of TW or Ianto to TW, because I'm fucking done with it, BUT...

I have to say, I love the fact that the hysterical nine refuse to get over their what-some-might-call butthurt over Children of Earth. Because if nothing else, that means that every time Russell opens his piehole about continuing Torchwood, there, STILL, follow the negative comments and the critique. And that HAS to be a thing that gets noticed by whoever's in charge of letting Russell take this show and do whatever the fuck he wants with it because he CAN. So good on you, hysterical women. Never get over it, you're doing the world a great service.

But yeah, as far as my prediction goes, it's pretty simple, Russell's mouthing off everywhere about TWS4 because he wants to break all the audience records for the regen specials. He wants you to think something significant will happen in those two shows regarding Jack. It won't, he knows it won't, but he's playing you anyway. Don't trust him. I mean, come on people, did you see Waters of Mars? Fucking emo-manpain-bullshit-death-destruction-breaking-the-toys-and-salting-the-earth AGAIN. He's petty like that, don't think for a moment that he's not.

Comments

[off_coloratura]

I don't know if I ascribe it to pettiness and spite, I think he really thinks it is awesome and groundbreaking and whatnot. That said, I think you're probably right about his hopes of hype stirring up a bigger audience for the finale, and also that we will not get anything even resembling satisfying closure regarding Jack. The last time I remember this series giving us what we wanted was Dalek.

[tencrush]

I think he's showing himself in interviews to be one of those people who's getting slightly miffed that not everyone touts him as the genius he thinks he is, and I do think that leads to a certain amount of pettiness on his part. I'm also convinced that the Davies-Moffat handover is way less chummy-chummy than the Beeb would like us to think it is.

(I'm attempting to write recap but I have lost the actual plot of what is going on. So confused. Also way busy.)

[as1mplegirl.livejournal.com]

I'm also convinced that the Davies-Moffat handover is way less chummy-chummy than the Beeb would like us to think it is.

I always think that. Not quite sure why. I always get the feeling that, certainly, since Moffat's takeover was decided, that there's been this kind of 'distance'.

[jo02]

Now that you've mentioned it, it might be a HUGE relief if the DW specials make it so that Jack 'dies'/loses his immortality/becomes the Face of Boe.
That would make any future Torchwood series fall completely off my radar (and they're hanging on the edge of my radar by their fingernails as it is atm anyhow.
I've seen a number of people jumping up and down with joy that a 4th series has been announced. As you say, it HASN'T. All Fuck-Face has done is put out there an excuse in advance, that the BBC is desperately short of funds, on the chance that Torchwood gets shelved. He's such a narcissistic Fuck that he's making sure in advance that nobody will blame HIM if Torchwood's not renewed.

[kelticbanshee]

Well, the first thing that came to mind when the Doctor went all "Time Lord victorious" on us at the end of Waters of Mars was "oh, right, now he's going to go back and try to fix everything he feels guilty for: Donna losing her memory, Jack's immortality, the Time Wars..."

Part of me thinks making Jack mortal would be a blessing for him (I spent the last hour of CoE basically thinking "have some fucking mercy and let him die now, please", after all). But, if this were to be a story that kept some shred of continuity, making Jack die in early 21st Century would completely fuck up the timelines and events that have already happened to the Doctor, so that would have to be dealt with. But, since we've already seen that continuity can be sacrificed for the sake of "serious drama", it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

Having heard quite a few members of the cast say that yes, there are talks about Series 4 going on at the moment, I think that yes, the idea of a Series 4 is going round the BBC these days. But I'm afraid you may be right, and RTD may try to do the same thing he did on CoE, and just stick the TW logo to a story that has nothing to do with TW as we love it. Because, right now, it's either that, or a big, hug, red "RESET" button that brings us back to before CoE...

Hope that makes some kind of sense... brain still not working despite having drunk coffee...

[wiley-nilly.livejournal.com]

Frankly, when sad, pitiful anthropologists look back at this in years to come, they'll call it '2000-2010: The Years of RTD's Meglomania'. He's built a world and, by God, no one else will be allowed to play with it.

I'd call him a bitchy little girl, but that would give bitchy little girls a bad name.

Just sayin'.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

i really don't think he's ever going to allow jack to die (and yes, i mean allow b/c he needs his immortal to torture forever and ever in new and interesting horrible ways) but i also do not believe there is a TW s4 with either Jack or Gwen and i have been, in fact, saying that a whole new team is the only way to go - not sure how many ppl will watch it and i certainly intend to never get invested in any of the characters, but yeah, it's definitely the only workable possibilty i can see

[flohkatie.livejournal.com]

That's how I see it, too. I love your predictions.

After CoE aired EM and JB were running a teacher's pet competition of sucking up to RTD. EM seeing herself with hubby and baby as protagonists, JB promoting a setting in the past, both scenarios clearly contradicting each other. For me there is no way that Torchwood will continue with the events of CoE still in place, it's like a cancer ulcer in the whoverse. So I totally can see some kind of reset happen in the last episodes of Ten, but a reset that won't bring us Torchwood back, but will even manifest that there is no going back. I think RTD will play with the possibility of changing timelines to get a few hopes up, just to crush them in the last minute. What I'm certain of is that Tennant's finale will put the storylines of all of the companions introduced in the RTD era to rest, the only question is what perversity he has up his sleeves for the poor characters.

I think it's not a coincidence that every week now we can read about a probable renewal of Torchwood. I assume he uses his contacts to some journalists to sent out a trial balloon to test the reaction of the audience or to make sure to the BBC there won't be new Torchwood without him having a big say in it. I always thought an announcement would not happen till after Who, anyway.

I for one will never forget (and forgive) what a manipulative bastard he is. I sure can hold a grudge. He fooled me once but not again. And I really hope that there is some real misjudgement on his part going on of how you can insult a part of your audience and get away with it. Most showrunners, especially in the sci-fi genre, would be happy to attract a lot of female viewers, but that's maybe the difference of depending on ad revenues and not just license fees.

[kuroi-hemlock.livejournal.com]

EM seeing herself with hubby and baby as protagonists...

Yeah, because we all know how exciting a sci-fi show gets when you add a baby into it. Trying to change the baby's diaper in-between shooting an alien in the face. Gwen leaving Rhys at home to go and chase after aliens. The fights we get between her and Rhys, because she is neglecting him and the child. Then we get uncle Jack that visits at Christmas and odd holidays, or whenever the next apocalypse occurs.

I'm not trying to bash Gwen, I just think that Eve Myles is a bit delusional if she expects a show with Gwen, Rhys and their baby as protagonists. John Barrowman's idea about Torchwood set in the past is at least more plausible.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'I just think that Eve Myles is a bit delusional if she expects a show with Gwen, Rhys and their baby as protagonists.'
Um... I think RTD is the one expecting that. Every time he talks up series four it's always 'I have ideas for Gwen, Rhys, the baby and Jack' (notice how Jack was last on the list). Unless he's planning on pulling a 4400 (the baby gets aged to an adult within a matter of days) I don't really see how that could work.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

I don't know. As Jo02 points out, I think he's covering his arse by mentioning budgets if the next series isn't made. Of course it would have to be a whole new team. Or hey, a Life on Mars ripoff theme set in the 70s. Hey now.

I LOVE Jack. I'm dying to see him in the Christmas specials and am fully aware I'm being manipulated. Jaaaaack!

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

I still think we'll get a series 4 of Torchwood but it'll be another mini-series staring Eve Myles with John Barrowman in a supporting role.

BTW - if you're interested, there's two long audio recordings of Gareth's q&a sessions over the weekend here - http://community.livejournal.com/garethdlloyd/

With so few convention reports over the last 12 months, these are great.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

Yes you are truly a sage. You are like the internet Delphic Oracle. As one of the hysterics i thank you.

I was shocked when I watched the footage of that comic con panel with RTD. The way he and Julie Gardner, but especially he, spoke, was very petulant, childlike and yes, petty and spiteful. Some of his interviews smack of it. I think that his ideal thing in the world would be a season 4 about Gwen running about Cardiff with other people, that then becomes popular.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'The way he and Julie Gardner, but especially he, spoke, was very petulant, childlike and yes, petty and spiteful.'
Maybe he's practicing for when he gets work in America; one of the writers on Heroes is EXACTLY like that to his fans.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Maybe following a writer from Heroes wouldn't be such a wise thing right now since that show is tanking big time.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

I'm not in the Heroes fandom but that's what I've heard. I've heard that A LOT of people stopped watching because the guy is such a dick (bad writing doesn't help either, I'm sure). Whenever someone accuses Heroes of having racist and misogynistic undertones he says that people are stupid for thinking that.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Hmm...interesting. I just thought they stopped watching because it's been SO BAD lately...and doesn't look to be getting any better. (This show has the opposite problem that Torchwood has in that it NEVER kills off anybody in the main cast to the point it's ridiculous.) I've watched Heroes from the start, but never followed the behind-the-scenes stuff.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'(This show has the opposite problem that Torchwood has in that it NEVER kills off anybody in the main cast to the point it's ridiculous.)'
That is interesting.

'I just thought they stopped watching because it's been SO BAD lately...and doesn't look to be getting any better.'
That too. I heard that in one episode two female character kiss and all I could thinks was, 'oh, bad attempt at a rating stunt'.

'I've watched Heroes from the start, but never followed the behind-the-scenes stuff.'
Me neither. The only reason I know is because someone a link.

[siege-ofcahoots.livejournal.com]

I think RTD either forgot or managed to misremember that the entertainment funding model of the balance of the world is not that of the BBC domestic variety. In an environment where corporations pay large amounts of money to put a branded can of tonic on a series' or movie's kitchen table, it is not wise to tell your historical viewership to stfu and go watch somebody else's pretty young things.

I think one of my favorite comments was that of a friend in the business: "He shit in his own bathtub and now he wants to be invited into our pool."

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

As always, you are right on the money. Since these are the last two DW's he'll be involved in his primary goal is to go out with a bang.

But I'm afraid you are also correct that he'll play a massive mind fuck with the audience and do horrible things to Donna and Martha, maybe Jack cause they're his toys and no one else can play with them. Rose will be exempt of course.

I'd love to know if he's got control of any new TW series - I keep reading conflicting reports on this. Regardless, a huge reset isn't going to work and Mommy Gwen and the Gwenettes will not get me watching.

I could possibly go with Jack in another era, but not with RTD in charge. I'd even entertain the possibility of Moran handling it but only because that would increase the possibility of GDL having a part in it.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'I'd even entertain the possibility of Moran handling it but only because that would increase the possibility of GDL having a part in it.'
I'd love that!

[satanassa.livejournal.com]

I am as suspicious of Moran as I am of RTD actually, I do not trust Moran to write a good portrayal of Ianto.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

For some reasons, RTD has other opinions about 'great' finales. I just don't get them.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Never get over it, you're doing the world a great service.'
I know I won't. When someone tells meto get over something, I make it a point NOT to. If he thinks he can pull that kind of crap in America, where show live and die by ratings, he's sadly mistaken.

'He's petty like that, don't think for a moment that he's not.'
I know! He's one pretty man. Jack doesn't stand a chance. Not only did he talk up Jack/Ianto and then give us something completely different (kissing a corpse is not developing a relationship), but then he made Ianto out to be lying about EVERYTHING. I always thought that might have been a TAKE THAT at the people who liked Ianto more than Gwen.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

...a take that..you think?

While Mommy Gwen is a Goddess so we can just forget about her confessing her infidelity to Rhys and then retconning him. Cause they do't count as lies when they're done by Gwen.

Ok, this is mean and snarky and way off topic but ever since someone on this site said he was living in Venice, CA, all I can picture is his tubby white body in a speedo laying on the sand looking like a beached whale. A beached whale with glasses.

And for the record, I'd look much the same - but then I wouldn't choose to live in Venice, the land of the tall, thin, young, cosmetically enhanced, boy and girl toys.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Cause they do't count as lies when they're done by Gwen.'
Of course it's not lying, Gwen's the heart of Torchwood. *Ianto style eye roll*

I think that's one of the reasons I don't care about Gwen at all; she never has to deal with the consequences of ANYTHING and no matter what happens not only does she come out untouch, she comes out BETTER OFF than she was before. Oh I forgot about the time Rhys died... and than came back to life. Dead means dead, my butt!

[flohkatie.livejournal.com]

The thing is, and it made it for me much easier to get over it, that Torchwood was never more than a tease regarding a relationship between Jack and Ianto. How many minutes were actually devoted to them doing anything "couply" and I use the term very loosely. Most stuff was ad-libs by GDL and because there was no show runner, who actually gave a shit about Torchwood, they went for it for a while, but no one had ever the intention to take the opportunity to portray a realistic relationship, whatever that would have been. They got a lot of credit for pretty much nothing. All they did was taking advantage of its popularity to make some money with some tie-in media and on conventions.

And then came RTD spoiling all the fun.

[ella-caramella.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with that, it was a massive manipulation right from the start. Which is not that bad in itself - commercial tv *must* be manipulative to some extent - but the way the Torchwood big (dick)heads did it was the worst kind of dishonest I've ever witnessed. It was nothing but a big fat lie, the only way they managed to get to a season 3 was because they had good actors who managed to pull good performances out of obscenely derivative scripts.

Then they decided to bomb every single thing that made the show watchable, just to, wait... to fuc@#ing improve it??? LOL! I mean, SOB!

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'The thing is, and it made it for me much easier to get over it, that Torchwood was never more than a tease regarding a relationship between Jack and Ianto.'
Tease is right, but then I've never really thought Torchwood was as groundbreaking as the writers seemed to think that it was. Having the first m/m relationship on a sci-fi show was good, but I kept waiting for them to DO something with it. They spent more time on Gwen/Rhys (or even Gwen/Jack) than they ever did on Jack/Ianto. All that wasted potential with Jack/Ianto and Ianto in general is what makes me really sad.

'They got a lot of credit for pretty much nothing. All they did was taking advantage of its popularity to make some money with some tie-in media and on conventions.'
Pretty much. I always got the feeling that Jack/Ianto was just a way to get more viewers and when they didn't need them anymore, bye bye Jack/Ianto.

[geekchick1013.livejournal.com]

Thanks :)

And don't worry, we're not giving up. Hell, we've barely even started...

[alba17.livejournal.com]

I srsly doubt Jack will get any real character development in the Dr. Who specials. He never does, does he? (Well, he got to be tortured for a year, I guess, and get all dirty.) Yeah, I don't believe a single thing RTD says any more. And you're making me sad about TW all over again, whah, he killed our show.