Torchwood

[tencrush]

If life is going to exist in a universe of this size,
then the one thing it cannot afford to have
is a sense of proportion.

There is yet another Children of Earth denialist Torchwood fan community out there and it is here:

tw_hysterical9

I am pimping it here on this journal for a few reasons. The first being that they've kindly linked to my PONY APPEAL, which is very nice of them. Secondly because they sort of asked me to a little bit because of my status as Torchwood BMF (that's not BNF, but BMF, which stands for BAMF!, otherwise known as BIGMOTHERFUCKINGFAN, and as such carries no implications of status or fame or indeed likeability.) And lastly because it finally seems like a place that doesn't take itself TOO seriously. I know there's lots of post-CoE-save-Ianto-hate-Russell-won't-watch-again type communities out there, but to be totally honest, we could do with one that isn't quite such serious business.

I never joined savecoffeeboy. I can understand why LOADS of people did join Save Coffee Boy, but I personally never got the point. I started the pony appeal because I wanted to show appreciation for what Ianto was without actually pushing a bring-Ianto-back agenda into anybody's face. I fully appreciate that lots of people want Ianto back, but I'm also a realist. I didn't like Children of Earth, but Ianto's death only played a very small part in the reasons why I didn't like Children of Earth. I won't be watching Torchwood again, but not just because Ianto's not in it, thought that's a big part of it. The thing is, though, I understand that in the scheme of things, nobody in any position to give a shit gives a shit that I didn't like CoE, that I want Ianto back, or that I won't be watching Torchwood again. Torchwood, as a franchise, doesn't NEED ME, any more than it needs you, dear reader, to approve of its direction. It got the viewing figures it wanted, and that, quite simply, is the end of the story. I LOVE the fact that there's so many people out there campaigning for Ianto's return, that they're raising money, sending coffee and making shrines, but I just don't have the optimism required to actually join them. Ianto's not coming back. Myfanwy's not coming back because ha, she must have asploded or something. They killed Torchwood, and that is the state of things. The state of things is not going to change. Now don't get me wrong, I am INCREDIBLY UPSET about the state of things. But what are you going to do?

So anyway, yes, the hysterical 9 community. I've already been reading a few things on there, and it makes me happy that people are now, calmly and rationally, talking about what happened. I'm seeing more and more of that around, actual meta and thoughts about why we're so upset, why we can't just get over it, why we're hurt and grieving, and I'm enjoying reading it.

Speaking of which, solitary_summer wrote some long but very interesting meta here about CoE and what it was about. I wish I could subscribe to this point of view, but the fact of the matter is that I feel that if this was how we were meant to view Jack's arc over the three series, I think it was executed badly. Jack's characterisation is, for me, quite simply too inconsistent to see him as having this progression and development. I'd love to just take this as read and ignore any bits of Jack that contradict it, but I'm terrible at ignoring bits I've seen. Damn. Having said that, remember back when I said I thought I'd found some beauty in CoE and something to like, but then I lost it? The things written in this essay, that's the thing I was grasping at but couldn't see anymore for all the ugliness. I can sort of see it now, but not clearly enough to change my opinion on the series. But I'm happy I read this.

Comments

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

You know the more I think about it, the more I don't want Ianto back on the show if all he's ever going to be is Jack's love interest. At least he belongs to fanfic now.

[off_coloratura]

Off topic, following those links led me to ask_aboutcoffee. Good god! Another RPG even more byzantine than ours!

It reminded me a lot of the early Game, actually. The recaps were INSANE.

[vylomy.livejournal.com]

You know, i totaly agree with you there's no point at such comunities and compains. I never believed that it will help, so I never sent cofe to BBC, cause I knew there would be no reply... or as disappointing reply as "9 histerical women". But I'm actually happy that there are such communities and all, it makes me feel a bit better that people care.
Still I'll never believe that BBC or producers or... who else responsible for this shi... will ever understand (or care) what we want or what we so upset about. Even actors... even GDL,as he said in his recent interview "trust writers and see where it goes... blah blah blah..." - yeah sure, trust writers and see how are they are going to shit on you once again. Er... no thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, you gotta wonder why at this point GDL keeps pimping the show. Dude, you're off it, people will follow you elsewhere so get some work! Preferably stuff that might eventually view (or at least be available on DVD) in the US. No pressure.

Anyway, speaking of shrines, don't know if everyone's seen this yet... http://peterblack.blogspot.com/2009/08/tribute-to-ianto.html

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Probably because he doesn't want to piss anyone off. The reason I didn't participate in any of the coffee mailing/birthday card sending is that I was (and still am) concerned that it could hurt GDL's career.

No business including the BBC wants to get highly publicized grief from their customers. CoE got the high viewership they were counting on and that's what they are pitching. From their point of view, all of us are just a bunch of crackpot whiners, and this negative publicity could affect the value of future productions.
And there is no way that they are going to acknowledge that it has any flaws.

But blame for their aggravation has to be displaced somewhere and that could easily be on GDL's head. So I think he's very smart to put on his Ianto veneer of tranquility and at least nominally support the show and the writers. Cause you can't be made the scapegoat if you are part of the team, right?

Wouldn't you love to have Tosh's pendant so you could hear what he REALLY thinks?

[vylomy.livejournal.com]

I think it's sweet that people do such things. GDL may sat it's creepy (man, did you see yourself in the mirror? you're creepy!), but I think it is a good way to show respect and affection to the character (nothing creepy, Gareth!)...

Thanks for the link, I was looking for the photos of flowers beneath the doors of Tourist Centre :)

[eandh99.livejournal.com]

Follow the link to peter black's blog, he's got some nice pics posted and some nice things to say. And he's a member of the Welsh Assembly, not a hysterical woman LOL. I wonder when the penny will drop for Cardiff folks that the show which made a star out of their city isn't coming back.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

""Yeah, you gotta wonder why at this point GDL keeps pimping the show. Dude, you're off it, people will follow you elsewhere so get some work""

Because if Gareth wants to work for the BBC again, he's got to remain polite about his past employers. And Gareth is returning to America for pilot season early next year. He's said that he's wiser about where to go etc this time round but whether this is true or not, only time will tell. 2010 feels quite far away.

I reckon the only way Ianto MIGHT return is if Jack becomes mortal again and he's now able to have a normal relationship without sulking about it.

[vylomy.livejournal.com]

"I reckon the only way Ianto MIGHT return is if Jack becomes mortal again and he's now able to have a normal relationship without sulking about it."

Oh no-no-no... 'Cause it will cheapen his death scene! Guh...
I just don't get it... like the death of Stephen didn't cheapen it enough. Whose death will Jack be more upset about: his own grandchild or the man we didn't even know if he loved?

And yeah, I totaly agree with tencrush. Even if he's back it all will always be about Jack, and Ianto will be only his love inerest nothing more.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

You must of missed the epic love story that was being told that put Jack in the position to be so broken hearted he could willingly sacrifice his own grandson. I missed it, too. ;)

That's why I vote for Rift!Ianto. This Ianto doesn't give a piss about Jack and let's him know it. Make Jack love's bitch for a change.

[vylomy.livejournal.com]

Yep... you're right, missed it! :)
How only could I?! This love story was so obvious in the series! XD

[(Anonymous)]

Speaking of cheapening anything, I wonder if RTD realizes that, as the entire point of CoE was to set up the Gwen show get Jack off earth (and into the Doctor Who specials where CoE wont be acknowledged), having him return in season 4 will cheapen the entire miniseries?

I mean, the entire thing was leading up to Jack running and he's what? Going to run for a few days and then get over it? RTD really needs a lesson in story planning.

[(Anonymous)]

He can be respectful about the show and his time there without being a constant hocker of the product. Obviously, he doesn't want to burn his bridges, but to me he just seems to go a tad overboard with all the 'keep watching!' stuff and there's a reason, stay tuned, blah blah blah. Of course, what else is he going to say when he's being interviewed for Torchwood magazine, but still, it just seems to me to plant the seed more for people who want a Ianto return than for letting them move on (not from the show, but from wanting Ianto back). That could also tick off TPTB who don't want to continue dwelling on Iantogate and "the actor who left the show".

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

IMO GDL should've come to America at the end of July and been here in August so he could get some guest spots on the shows in major production now for the fall season. He had all the press from COE (it would've been perfect timing) and if he wants a better chance at landing a pilot, a few guest spots in American TV could help pad his resume. But then he didn't consult with me...

"I reckon the only way Ianto MIGHT return is if Jack becomes mortal again and he's now able to have a normal relationship without sulking about it."

Wouldn't that be nice? But alas...not holding my breath.

[eandh99.livejournal.com]

I wasn't going to do this, but my typing just got away from me - I went over to that Meta on Jack as Greek tragic hero and disagreed, strongly. And hey, I'm a dyke so I'm allowed to criticize RTD's take on gay relationships, lucky me. I don't see CoE as anything but RTD's bid for mainstream success, his claim to be as good as the writers of Spooks or 24, his show reel for American TV.

I understand why GDL's still being a good little cheerleader, though, the BBC is a big employer and he'll get nowhere dissing them. Times are tough and money's tight.

[(Anonymous)]

I in no way meant he should start dissing the show or anyone connected to it. I just think from reading his comments lately that he has spent more time and energy promoting the show than most people who have left a show. That's all. He can continue to say nice things about the show, everyone involved, and the BBC, but he seems to go above and beyond IMO. Apparently, it's just me.

[eandh99.livejournal.com]

Maybe he's got more work coming or hopes to have - audiobooks, that kind of thing.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Oh, that they would keep Ianto alive in the audiobooks, radio plays, short stories...basically everything but the show. Who wants to read/hear post-COE stories about Gwen and Lois Habiba? *yawn* So, yeah, here's hoping he still gets some more Who-universe gigs...and not just conventions.

JCB Ianto action figure with removable hard hat anyone?

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

Yes exactly. Also if JB gets his way and future episodes are set in the past for TW then there is a lot of potential for Ianto to be back. He would be daft to burn any bridges.

Also as to America, the guy may have wanted some time at home! He seems so much more relaxed and happy now than he did a few months ago. He has family, dogs, a band, a fiancee. I really don't see why he should have rushed off to the US, he probably needed a bit of support. He just seemed in meltdown when he came back from the stint in LA earlier this year. Of course personally it makes me cross that actors feel pressured to go to Hollywood at all, it's such a shame that the British industry can't support everyone who wants to live and work in their own country. GDL has talked about getting homesick when away, and he is very into being Welsh, and his ponies of course.

[nobleroman1.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. It boggles my mind how some seem to think that he should express - what they presume to be - his outrage toward the BBC & RTD. Even if this outrage does exist, he'd be a fool to bite the hand that could possibly feed him in the future. He does not have the star power of DT (and to a lesser extent, JB). He's a young man trying to establish a career during a time in which steady jobs in the industry, both here in the US and across the pond, are extremely hard to find.

As someone whose previous job was eliminated a few months ago, I understand why GD-L would maintain a professional demeanor. Yes, my previous job was eliminated, but because I did not rail against the company and (to use a British expression) flounce off when the decision was announced, I was able to obtain another position with the company. Those who (directly or indirectly) assert belittlingly that he's kissing the collective butt of the BBC/RTD, should try to remember that for us (the fen) it's entertainment, but for the actors not only is it an artistic outlet, but it's also a means of keeping a roof over their heads and food in their mouths.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Who is saying he should express outrage? Who is belittling anything? I think some of the responses have blown things out of proportion.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Well, I can't blame him for trying earlier this year. He was let go from his regular gig and he was encouraged by a couple of BBC big-wigs to try America. Pilot season is tough, though. I think a few guest spots would've been easier to land in comparison, but it's not easy for anyone right now. He doesn't seem stressed about his career, though, so I won't be either.

[lorelei-chase.livejournal.com]

You know, having had quite a while to mull this over now, I'd certainly prefer RTD to never get his hands on the character of Ianto again. Preferably to never go near Torchwood again, but unfortunately it sounds like a fourth series will happen at some point. As much as I lament the destruction of my favourite show, I think it's beyond repair unless RTD is well and truly out of the picture. He's so determined to create an edgy, serious drama that he's admitted he changed (re: slaughtered) TW because previously it was too sci-fi and comedic (hmm, funny. I thought TW was supposed to be a sci-fi show ...).

But the problem is, he can't write serious and edgy drama. It comes out as clichéd, clumsy, like a child playing at being grown up. He had no vested interest in the characters so any new series is going to have that same attitude and it just isn't for me. I either want a sci-fi show that's a bit of fun, deals with a few issues but is generally enjoyable to watch, or I want a serious drama which is well acted, well written and most of all consistent and gripping. Children of Earth didn't grip me. I got bored. I'm still of the opinion that they only killed Ianto because they got to the end of Day Four and nothing had actually happened! CoE went through the motions of drama, but lacked the substance which was a huge shame.

But oh well, I bought State of Play this week so I'm looking forward to watching something thrilling!

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad it made you more happy than not. :)

[takenatwork.livejournal.com]

I've tried to use S1 and 2 to make sense of the characterisation in CoE, but I can't make it happen. There's just this big void between the end of S2 and CoE. CoE really was it's own story, it's own characters and it's own motivation, and I wish it hadn't ruined Torchwood.

I won't watch any new Torchwood. Partly because of a lack of trust in RTD, but mainly because I like sci-fi. If the millions of new viewers really liked sci-fi, it wouldn't be the poor relation it is, but they are the only viewers who matter now.

[vylomy.livejournal.com]

Oh god, you are so right! The only real characterizations we got were the characterizations of new charecters! As for old ones... yeah they can call it "development". But I call it OOC. Maybe I could say that the only character that was developed was Gwen due to whole her MOTHERFUCKINGness. But as I don't care about her character much... well, I just don't care about her.

[coffee-kris.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks for pimping tw_hysterical9! We are really chuffed that you (and your viewers) might find out little comm fun and interesting. I know I read this LJ because it makes me laugh and cry and think, but I love how you don't take any of this too seriously. Which is kinda our goal at tw_hysterical9 - we want to have serious discussions but we also want to keep it somewhat light and we *really* want to avoid the PC crap about who's allowed to use certain words or talk about certain issues.

So, come on over, post your fic, meta, rants and raves. We welcome all - men, women, poodles, etc. I know RTD thinks there are only 9 of us but as we all know, his view of reality is highly distorted.

Oh, and Ianto wants - no he NEEDS - a pony, so give! :-) Kristin (one of the Hysterical mods)

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for the pimp. I agree with everything you say here. I love the fact that savecoffeeboy exists and I think the saveianto people are ever so sweet but our comm is meant for everyone unhappy about Ianto and or CoE, we don't mind what perspective, just wanted a place for everyone to get along and not take it all so seriously as you say.

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

I hadn't joined any of the CoE-denial comms, myself, but that one looked promising - until today.

Apparently, they're OK with the blatant Gwen-Bashing. ("It's just so easy!") I didn't even read what was linked to, I'm guessing it's not necessary. *leaves comm* :/