The Ballad of Russell T. Davies

[tencrush]

I said yesterday how much this guy has ruined Who for me, and now Torchwood as well, and the thing is, I'm sure he didn't MEAN TO. But he did. How did he do that, though? Well, I've been thinking about that, and the thing is, that Russell and I just don't see eye to eye on relationships, and here's why.

There's two relationships that Russell has touted or described using the words "love" and/or "romance" and they are Doctor/Rose and Jack/Ianto. The thing about Jack/Ianto is that Russell didn't really have a very firm hand in the development and depiction of that relationship in Series One and Two of Torchwood, which makes it very interesting to see what happens to that relationship the moment that Russell DOES start to stir that particular pot in Series Three, and it's a very telling thing that happens. The relationship that we so desperately tried to fanwank away as having something of an equal footing about it, as being something of a partnership in S1 and 2 immediately, in Day One of S3, is very clearly depicted as a relationship between a STRONG and a WEAK partner. Ianto suddenly becomes Rose in S2 of Who, unsure of their position in the affections of the other, not even sure enough and confident enough to OUTRIGHT ASK what their position is, and reduced to slightly underhanded nagging about mortgages or the word "couple" in order to try and gauge what the other partner is thinking and how the other partner sees them. The dominant partner is dismissive, cold even, and the questioning party is left to shrug off that coldness and accept what's on offer because this is pretty much it, so take it or leave it. And they take it. Like a bitch.

We know how both of those relationships ended because they ended in exactly the same way, with tears and an unrequited "I love you" on the side of the weaker party. Now the thing about both of these relationships is, and I think that's what many people fail to understand, that Russell really - genuinely - finds this type of interaction romantic. This interaction between the doting, devoted (we as an audience might say "foolish") underdog and an uncommunicative, closed off stronger half, Russell really digs that shit. And when we, as an audience, say to Russell that we find what we see on screen unsatisfying, maybe because we like our romances to be between equals and not so weirdly skewed, Russell really doesn't get why. And so when we say we were missing something in Jack/Ianto, Russell assumes, because he thinks it was fucking romantic, that we think they didn't have enough sex, when that's precisely the opposite of what we were missing. He's not being dismissive, he just doesn't understand our point of view. At all. And he never will. This is IT for him, this is the epitome of romance. Look at Doctor/Jack, the exact mirror of Jack/Ianto, the relationship where Jack is the foolish devoted one and the Doctor is the one being cold and unappreciative and closed. We feel for Jack in that relationship and we hate the Doctor in that moment for brushing his devotion off so casually. (Not as much as I hate Jack for brushing off Ianto, but that's only because the Doctor at least has the decency not to fuck those he keeps at arm's length.) Hell, look at Gwen/Rhys even, again, a relationship where we side with the underdog Rhys and really, when we look at the relationship objectively, think Rhys deserves better than what Gwen gives him (her superhuman rewrite in S3 notwithstanding). I won't go so far as to psychoanalyse RTD, dudes, but let's face it, the lovestruck puppy and the strong silent type, that really is Rusty's bag, baby. It ain't mine. Unfortunately.

Yes, I am angry at RTD for what he gave us in S3 of Torchwood, but mostly, I'm angry at myself for getting my hopes up that Russell would ever be able to step away from this default relationship template and give me something that would satisfy me. He can't. This is the formula that Russell writes to and it's a formula that I, personally, don't like, because I like my romance with a smidgeon of equality. And so, inevitably, I will never like anything that Russell writes. It's never going to work between me and Russell and I've now resigned myself to that. So, yeah. That's me and Russell done. Forever.

On a side note, I believe the reason RTD is so adamant that Ianto is DEAD DEAD DEAD NEVER COMING BACK NO WAY NO HOW, and not toeing the standard keep-em-hooked sci-fi line of "anything can happen, folks!" is twofold. First, I think these are the protests of a man who has been defending this decision for a while now. This isn't the first time it's been questioned, I reckon it's been questioned internally, probably reasonably vehemently, because these are the words of a man who has been digging his big gay heels in for quite some time now, shouting his way out of a corner he's been pushed into once too often. And secondly, he's so adamant about this BECAUSE JACK IS NOT COMING BACK. Jack will exit the narrative in Who, and John's not telling us this because he's still contractually obligated to toe a party line, but mark my words, Jack will leave the story or turn into the face of Boe in Who, leaving us with ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to bring Ianto back. Because Ianto's function in the narrative has only ever been to be Jack's lover and tell us as an audience more about Jack as a person. Ianto's never really been upgraded to his-own-man status in Rusty's eyes, and with the exit of Jack, Ianto will cease to have a purpose in the story, whatever it may be. Those are my thoughts on that Ianto is dead as a doornail thing. Yeah, of course, Rusty's also saying it because he loves to piss off the fanbase, that's like a masochistic thing he's really into, but apart from that, those are my reasonings as to why he's saying that.

I wish I could stop thinking about fucking Torchwood already.

Comments

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

And secondly, he's so adamant about this BECAUSE JACK IS NOT COMING BACK.

Your words fill me with a deep sense of dooooom!!!

But then again. AFAIK, RTD tried to sell the 'policewoman investigating strange crap' to the BBC before as Excalibur, and they only bought it when he plugged in the Doctor Who/Captain Jack connection. Do you really think that 2.5 seasons of Gwen has been enough to sell the Beeb on the idea of doing it now?
I would be very surprized indeed if they agreed to a 4th season without JB, considering he seems to be flavour of the month right now. And JB always seems so enthuasiastic when talking about playing the role, it'd be hard to see him turning it down.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I won't go so far as to psychoanalyse RTD, dudes, but let's face it, the lovestruck puppy and the strong silent type, that really is Rusty's bag, baby.

I have totally wondered on occasion whether he sees himself as the lovesick fool who will do anything for his man, or as the partner who need not entirely return that love because he is Just That Awesome that nobody could ever not want him no matter what he does emotionally.


First, I think these are the protests of a man who has been defending this decision for a while now. This isn't the first time it's been questioned, I reckon it's been questioned internally, probably reasonably vehemently

I could see that, when you put it like that. He is indeed coming across as someone who's already defended himself a lot and has reduced to short proclamations because he's tired of justifications.


Because Ianto's function in the narrative has only ever been to be Jack's lover and tell us as an audience more about Jack as a person. Ianto's never really been upgraded to his-own-man status in Rusty's eyes, and with the exit of Jack, Ianto will cease to have a purpose in the story, whatever it may be.

Wow, he really is the Rose of Torchwood :o

[louiex.livejournal.com]

Dude, the nail has been struck perfectly on the head. You're a hundred-billion percent right here! Also, throw the Rose/Mickey relationship in there too with that same dynamic as well. He only got on equal footing with another person in the form of Jake, his AU!self's bf who loved him but -again- was the casually dismissed partner until Mickey warmed up to him.

[timberwolfoz.livejournal.com]

First, I think these are the protests of a man who has been defending this decision for a while now. This isn't the first time it's been questioned, I reckon it's been questioned internally, probably reasonably vehemently...

Yes, there does seem to be a certain amount of stubbornness in the decision, doesn't it? And I'm sure someone pointed out to him just how popular a) Ianto b) the Jack/Ianto relationship was.

And secondly, he's so adamant about this BECAUSE JACK IS NOT COMING BACK.

You've got me actually looking forward to the next Who, now. And for the most part, my interest ended with Eccleston.

And y'know, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

I wish I could stop thinking about fucking Torchwood already.

I know! I walked away from it to avoid spoilers, and now I'm drawn deeply into it when the show, for all intents and purposes, is gone.

[urnssadomen.livejournal.com]

Wow, spot on.
And because of your insightful analysis, I am actually look forward to Moffat's DW. He isa guy actually knows about romance and semi-healthy relationship (equal but still somewhat heartbreaking).

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

I wish I could stop thinking about fucking Torchwood already.

Me too. In fact, I had for several months and then COE happened and ate my brain. And not in an awesome zombie movie way.

I don't know what RTD thinks or believes, but what he writes speaks for itself. I don't know how anyone could look at Jack and Ianto's relationship in Series 3 and think, "wow, isn't that romantic?" Not even tragically romantic. It was just pathetic.

[tencrush]

And yet I really think he saw S3 Jack/Ianto as a "romance", in the same way he saw S2Who Doctor/Rose as a romance. We saw squicky one-sided puppy love, he saw "soulmates", who complete each other (but can't talk about anything. At all.)

[tencrush]

I think Russell desperately wants to be the strong one who just is that awesome, but in practice he's the doting puppy. That's why, when people accuse Russell of Mary Sueing, they can never quite make up their minds as to whether the Mary Sue is the Doctor or Rose,

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

That's a very interesting observation, and it makes SENSE which is a balm to my poor little traumatized psyche.

In watching COE and reading/watching interviews with RTD, my armchair psychologist impression is that he doesn't like himself or homosexuals (his own orientation notwithstanding). Now you've got me wondering what his relationship with his partner is like. (Aaaaannnnndddd...that would be in a completely academic, non-squicky way because otherwise, just, ew. Do NOT want visuals of Rusty with *anybody*.)


the protests of a man who has been defending this decision for a while now.

That's my impression, too. His protests have felt a bit tantrummy-child to me.

BECAUSE JACK IS NOT COMING BACK. Jack will exit the narrative in Who, and John's not telling us this because he's still contractually obligated to toe a party line.

This wouldn't surprise me at all, especially in light of John's comment in a recent interview (paraphrased) that he would be happy if Jack were the only part he could play for the next ten years. That comment caught my attention when I read it because it didn't quite sound like happy, normal, "I'm a well-rounded entertainer" John.

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

No, I agree, I think he saw it that way. I think they all saw it that way, or were smart enough to spout the party line. It is pretty amazing that Euros, John, Gareth, Julie Gardner, etc as well as RTD all were selling this as a love story. Not because of the tragedy, because, well, tragic love stories are some of the best-selling shit around. Just because of the way the two characters interacted.

I believe Jack did love Ianto, even if the writers didn't let that through a lot, but that's mostly because I am told he did and I have amazing fanwank handwaving skillz.

[lukita.livejournal.com]

between the doting, devoted (we as an audience might say "foolish") underdog and an uncommunicative, closed off stronger half

I hate you, I just got bunnied.

But yes, that makes an amazing amount sense. RTD's sense of romance is what I read and believed in when I was sixteen, now I'm more than likely to kick my other half's ass for being an ass.

he's so adamant about this BECAUSE JACK IS NOT COMING BACK

Oh noes~ Yes, I think Jack is going to exit as well, especially with what JB has been saying in interviews lately. I'm still extremely upset that Ianto didn't get to grow into his own man in RTD's eyes.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for his as it's reminded me that Stuart/Vince also had the EXACT SAME relationship in QAF UK - Nice, quiet Vince had to wait around for 16 years before awesome-as-fuck Stuart rode off with him into the sunset.

Although in that (a series set in the 'real' world) they got the sci-fi ending what with the Tardis!Jeep, whereas Ianto *had* to die in the sci-fi show to make to more 'real'?!

Did anybody watch Bob & Rose?

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

Wow! Having never seen any of RTD's other shows, I had no idea. I like equal relationships too so I doubt I'll enjoy any of his other shows. But than I've never been one to kiss his ass JUST BECAUSE he's RTD. Asses are for sitting, not kissing.

'Because Ianto's function in the narrative has only ever been to be Jack's lover and tell us as an audience more about Jack as a person.'
If Ianto ever gets mentioned again, even if Jack comes back, I'll be shocked.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'especially with what JB has been saying in interviews lately.'
What has he said?

[tencrush]

He won't. And yet we're meant to take this as a love story. It's fucked up.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

He barely got a mention six months later, so I highly doubt his name will come up next season. Although Gwen might put up a memorial wall in the new digs 'cause that's so her.

[stlscape.livejournal.com]

Off the top of my head, there's been an emphasis on I love playing Capt. Jack; I love the character; If you told me I could only play Jack for the next ten years, I'd be happy. That type of thing, which I'm translating as Puh-leaze give me more Jack to play.

[lukita.livejournal.com]

Things along the line of if someone told him he'll only be playing Jack for the rest of his career, he'll be happy.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Well, then, JB should pitch an idea to BBC for a spin-off where Jack has adventures in space (and maybe resurrects a certain Ninja Teaboy because, afer all, he was in LOVE!). That way RTD can be free to do whatever he wants with Torchwood and Gwen and JB can still play Jack. RTD's already given us permission to watch something else...

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

Yeah, maybe Gwen will name her baby Ianto.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

By golly, I think you've explained Russel's mindset perfectly.

We were doomed from the off. :(

[tencrush]

Pretty much, yeah. It's quite sad, really.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they can keep selling it as a love story (just like they can keep selling Gwen as the heart of Torchwood) but that doesn't mean I buy it.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

This makes sooo much sense. I think Jack will be around as a "cameo/voice over." He can make a guest appearance in the first episode and then leave and check in once in a while. So he won't really be part of the new TW, so no need for him to have a relationship. It really is going to be Torchwood Angels.

As for the relationship - again you are spot on. I can't think of one healthy, balanced, romantic relationship RTD has written. Gwen & Rhys probably comes the closest, but I'm sure as AWESOME-GWEN increases her awesomeness, Rhys will get wimpier. How Rose finally got a "happy' ending was totally contrived. As for Mickey, he's the reason I could never warm up to Rose. When discussing him with friends, we always have to reference whether we are speaking about 'pussy Mickey' (Rose's boytoy) or 'tough Mickey' (from the alternative universe).

Actually, I would be thrilled if JB had an extremely limited/no role in TW4. Cause that would take away the tiny bit of temptation to watch that would remain with JB's presence.

And as for a new show - The Amazing Adventures of the Captain and his Coffee-Man - YES PLEASE.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

I can't see Rhys lasting much longer. He and Gwen are too much of a solid couple now, well as solid as a couple can be with Gwen being one-half of it.