Asylum thoughts, actual serious ones.

[tencrush]

I've heard a lot of complaints around about Jack's characterisation in Asylum. I'm intrigued as to why people think he was so enormously OOC.

First off, I'll explain one of the major problems I have with RTD's writing, and specifically his characterisation. The problem I see onscreen again and again is the major discrepancy between what we ARE TOLD about characters, either by the characters themselves or through the eyes of other characters, and how those characters ACTUALLY BEHAVE. Gwen is a prime example of this, and as it's one of themost obvious ones, it's one that grates on a lot of people, this discrepancy between Jack's SUPER COMPASSIONATE WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING opinion of Gwen, and Gwen's actual onscreen rather pushy, ditzy, sometimes downright stupid, cheating-on-her-boyfriend etc etc behaviour. RTD often seems to have trouble actually MAKING his characters wonderful, awesome, compassionate and so forth and resorts instead to the rather lazy tool of TELLING US that they are these things.

Torchwood itself, and Jack as head of Torchwood, is another example. We've been told that Jack has reshaped Torchwood, as a hommage to the Doctor, and has altered the focus of the organisation. But what actually has he done? Onscreen the one major difference between Jack's Torchwood and the Hartman Torchwood at Canary Wharf would appear to be a lack of organisation and professionalism, but that, really, is about it. You would think that this "reshaping" of the organisation would have, at the very least, involved a realisation on Jack's part that perhaps not everything that comes through the Rift is a threat, and that providing asylum (as they do for humans at Flat Holm and as they do for humans who are temporally displaced) for those beings that are trapped on Earth against their will should form a major part of their focus. A Weevil island sanctuary, perhaps? As opposed to indefinite incarceration of these alien beings who seemingly are just trying to survive. You'd think Jack would be on this somehow, but Asylum tells us that he isn't. And really, is that so out-of-character for the Jack that we've seen thus far? Look at the way he treats Beth in Sleeper, how he uses a Weevil to threaten people in whatever episode that was, how he erases Adam out of existence without really so much as a thought for the fact that this is just what this creature needs to do to live and, you know, maybe we could come up with a solution somehow. Even Lisa, really. This isn't exactly a guy who's open to the idea that perhaps a middle ground can be reached somehow. This is a guy who transports aliens into the heart of the sun without really blinking. In fact, the most compassion Jack's ever shown for any alien being is the space whale, let's face it. Maybe that's because it was a big fish?

I don't really know what I'm trying to say, but there's this fannish in-joke about Torchwood and Jack shooting aliens inna face, you know? In all seriousness, though, that joke didn't just fall out of the sky like a giant space whale.

Comments

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

I can't say anything about Asylum since I haven't listened to it yet, but you'll probably already know that I agree with everything you said about Jack: I may try to rationalise or explain his behaviour in all kinds of ways on a meta level, but as far as show canon itself is concerned, there's definitely a discrepancy, and the question of Jack's psychological make-up, e.g., what working for TW for a century did to him, has never been explicitly - or even semi-explicitly - addressed, unlike his death wish in S1. I do believe we were supposed to notice in S2 (more so than in S1) that Jack is a very complex and contradictory character, but it was all very vague, and after the brief exchange I had with James Moran over Sleeper I'm not entirely convinced they're always fully aware of what messages they do or don't send out...

[bandgeek01.livejournal.com]

You know I didn't think Jack was totally OOC in Asylum. As you pointed out with Sleeper, and other episodes.

Also how long is supposed to have passed between the end of S2 and these radio plays and S3? I would think that Jack maybe put up these walls because he doesn't want to lose anyone again. So he's made himself cold to other people besides Ianto and Gwen.


Nicole

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Jack's SUPER COMPASSIONATE WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING opinion of Gwen

Y'know, I'm not sure we really get that on screen. I think it actually comes from promotional soundbites.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Yah Rusty is kind of shit at actually showing that characters are great and awesome and worthy of all the attention they get. Sometimes so shit that he makes really ugly personalities that the other characters all adore. It is an odd weakness when he is supposed to be good with Characters And Stuff.

Jack is a bit of a bastard who doesn't care about aliens unless they are sexy whales. He certainly doesn't have much time for things like redemption and forgiveness and shit. Maybe professionalism is evil and that is why Torchwood Cardiff ase useless fuckwits. I don't hate the Jack, but I am not sure how his Torchwood is any different from Yvonne Hartman's apart from obvs BEING USELESS FUCKWITS. Ahem. Also he is creepy in terms of sexual harrassment.

[qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com]

RTD often seems to have trouble actually MAKING his characters wonderful, awesome, compassionate and so forth and resorts instead to the rather lazy tool of TELLING US that they are these things.

THIS. i have been saying this ever since rose tyler s2 and gwen cooper s1, and i am gratified beyond words that SOMEONE ELSE FINALLY SEES IT TOO.

*glomps you*

Gwen's actual onscreen rather pushy, ditzy, sometimes downright stupid, cheating-on-her-boyfriend etc etc behaviour

more than all that, it's her selfishness that i think really makes jack's opinion of her as 'the compassionate one' hard to understand...especially when she repeatedly puts the whole team in danger by refusing to follow jack's direct orders, throws tantrums to get her own way, and endangers her fiance's life by giving him what she damn well knows is a dangerous drug instead of confessing her infidelity and facing the consequences. and beyond just being lazy writing, it makes jack really look bad as a leader: he repeatedly allows his special pet employee (that he might or might not want to shag) to endanger the other team members and gives her preferential treatment.

anyway, rtd seems to admire selfishness in his female characters (insert any of the quotes he's made about rose tyler's selfishness making her a survivor, etc), and, just, wtf? selfish =/= compassionate.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

but there's this fannish in-joke about Torchwood and Jack shooting aliens inna face, you know? In all seriousness, though, that joke didn't just fall out of the sky like a giant space whale

this
i think... well i don't know, i'm going to say, wrong or not, that a lot of ppl feel it was OOC b/c that's not how they want to see jack, not so much to do with how he actually comes across in canon

and that whole aspect of jack's character is one of the biggest things i've disliked about him in torchwood - he should have thought about this and he, of all of them, should have been more sympathetic to the aliens that just happen to find themselves stranded on a strange planet with no way to get back home... i'm just saying

[satanassa.livejournal.com]

I must say Jack is completely useless as a leader! From S1 and S2, we see that he has no idea what his team members are up to behind his back, allows them to bully each other, has no clue if they have psychological problems, is willing to bend all rules for his pet employee, can't get his team to obey orders, etc etc. The pain it must cause Ianto to be involved with such an incompetent doofus!

Also this point about Gwen being the 'compassionate' one -- have you noticed that in the episode 'Greeks Bearing Gifts' it was actually Tosh who was the kind-hearted one, very much affected by the letters and things that come through the Rift?

[saharafic.livejournal.com]

This. This is exactly how I felt. I didn't realize people thought it was OOC. In fact, I felt like it was so totally in character that we got more about him than we have in a while.

Thought: he shows compassion for the emo space whale, and in his flashback, he shows some modicum of concern for the blowfish - but Mary, Adam, Beth...nada. And I feel like Weevils are pets for him - dumb animals that he can keep in a kennel. He seems to show the most contempt and animosity towards aliens that seem on the surface to be human. Could that have something to do with his love/hate thing with The Doctor?

Dunno, rambling