Fandom questionnaire...
Jan. 24th, 2009 07:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Random questions that have been on my mind lately:
- Why do fanfic writers write to prompts and challenges and such? If you need a prompt, isn't that already a basic signal that there's something up with your creative juices? (I'm not being shitty here, I genuinely want to know why people do this.) Also, am I the only person who more or less assumes, upon reading the words "prompt table" that a fic will be on the mediocre-to-shite end of the spectrum? Also, why do people throw "plot bunnies" at each other? If you couldn't write it yourself, isn't that more or less a hint that the idea, in and of itself, doesn't have legs? And why are they called "plot bunnies" and am I the only peron who reads those two words and wants to kill?
- Who are the Jantomafia? Where do they hang out? I hear talk of them a lot. Are they like the Barrowmafia? I mean, I know I've met one or two people who are quite vehemently pro-Jack/Ianto (I can't even bring myself to write the smooshphrase more than once), but would those people automatically be in said mafia? Or is there like a membership thing? Am I on their shitlist for saying I think it would be a logical progression for the characters and make for more interesting telvision if they split up? Do they even have a shitlist? No, seriously, where do they hang out?
- I still think Ianto's going to DIE. As you were.
- Part of me kind of likes
theemptywriter, first of all because I think it's good that people get all this anti-Moffat sentiment out now, years before his episodes hit the screen, and I know the whole thing will run out of steam by then. Secondly because I love watching five people constantly telling each other how right they are to hate someone for no real reason. And also because they're all twelve. And love Rose. There's something really cute about them that makes me want to pinch their cheeks and punch them in the face in equal measure.
- I want to pimp
ninja_teaboy around the houses again, but I don't really have a legitimate reason for doing so. I'd issue a fic challenge if it weren't for point one up there. And, really, I'm wondering if perhaps less is more when it comes to membership. But on the other hand, I've read some good stuff that I'd love people to post there, but I've been too busy to comment and say "Hey! Bring this over to my pool, I like it." Am torn. Need quality input. Have no idea how to achieve it. Grrr.
- Shitty photomanips are shitty. Maybe I should take up making them myself? Just for luls? If I did, would people come into my journal and go "Whew! Hawt!!!" Because otherwise I'm not doing it.
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Date: 2009-01-24 07:24 am (UTC)If you need a prompt, isn't that already a basic signal that there's something up with your creative juices?
not necessarily. sometimes prompts can get your muse to take a step to the side, as it were - it's very easy to get stuck in a writing rut (say, you always write jack/ianto, or you only write het!fic), so a prompt can be one way to nudge your creativity out of its normal comfort zone.
of course, some prompts can also be utter shite, which i found out the hard way when i volunteered for one without knowing what the prompt would be first. for that reason and several others, i don't really do prompts anymore unless one really grabs my muse by the gonads and won't let go.
why do people throw "plot bunnies" at each other? If you couldn't write it yourself, isn't that more or less a hint that the idea, in and of itself, doesn't have legs?
definitely not. say you get a really good idea. you seriously want to write it...but you already have eighteen other stories waiting to be written, plus a doctor's appointment later this week, and then you have to go visit a friend who's having cramps and go buy groceries for the week so you won't starve and get a replacement chia pet because your cat ate your last one and and and...you get the idea. i suspect that's why they're called plot bunnies (aside from the fact that they breed like almighty fuck)...just because you don't have room in your life to care for a pet doesn't mean that that cute wriggly-nosed little ball of fluff won't make someone else deliriously happy.
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Date: 2009-01-24 07:35 am (UTC)Sorry, I see people running into communities sometimes going GREAT IDEA: IANTO HAS A BIONIC EYE!! and then just buggering off again and I think did you really need to share that with the world?
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Date: 2009-01-24 07:49 am (UTC)if you really love the bunny, you will love it enough to let an abler (ie less busy) plot!mummy write it. ;)
i think there is a definite difference between occasionally having a really good idea you're too busy to write and taking a massive hyperbolic brain dump in the middle of an unsuspecting comm, though. posts like the ones you're describing are a big reason why i don't have much to do with fic these days...but i can more than relate to someone going, 'shit, i've worked on this idea and tried to finish it but other stuff keeps coming up...but damn, i'd still love to read that story.'
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Date: 2009-01-24 12:06 pm (UTC)Not necessarily. Just because somebody has the idea for a fic, doesn't mean that they'll be able to do it justice (just look at some of the crapfic out there and think of how those particular plots could have been handled in the hands of a more competent writer)
I've had ideas for fic before which I just know that I'd never be able to write either because my style of writing wouldn't suit the story, or I don't like the characters enough to invest my time in writing them. But I know that other writers might do a good job, so out goes the bunny.
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 07:26 am (UTC)He said something like 'ideas multiply like bunnies.' Maybe.The exact quote is: "Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen." And I'm not a bit surprised that fandom chose to go with 'bunnies' rather than 'rabbits.' It kinda fits the lowest common denominator.)J/I shippers have a mafia? (I probably owe them. Must hide.)
RE: TW spoiler: NO!
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Date: 2009-01-24 07:31 am (UTC)Also, I agree that Ianto might die. Since a death arc seems to be the easiest way to get a good storyline on TW, I think I'm OK with this.
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Date: 2009-01-24 07:42 am (UTC)Now, as to prompts. It's not just fanfic writers that use them as sparks to the creative process. Writing to someone else's prompt - especially with a time limit - is a good exercise. Now, sometimes that's all it is - an exercise. Some people don't realise that not every word that comes off their fingertips is necessarily fit for publication, even on their LJ.
One more cool thing about writing to prompts is having the chance to see how people approach the same prompt and come up with wildly disparate products. It's possible to learn a lot about your craft if you take some time to reflect and compare your work with that of others.
One more thing. If you post a manip, I will have to smack you. I am unanimous in that.
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Date: 2009-01-24 08:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 08:25 am (UTC)As for challenges/prompts? I like doing them every once in a while. Though to me, those are generally writing exercises to see where a word might take me. I could just as easily come up with the word(s) myself, but I have fun letting friends come up with them. A real prompt table I've only made use of once and that was for a drabble100 stint. Fun, but not something I'd do again anytime soon.
Plot bunnies are a different thing for me. I don't mind being inspired by friends when we talk about plot ideas, and ask if it's not my own idea, if I might use it as inspiration or if they intend to write it themselves. My own plotbunnies? Are mine! *laughs* If a plot idea isn't good enough for me to sit down and write it myself, then it's probably just as well. It's why I'm not very good at fic exchanges, such as secret santa projects. I'm good at writing what my recipient is interested in, but I stink at making my own request. I keep getting sidetracked by ideas for new fics *g*
Yes, people would do that if you made manips. Ages back, when in Smallville and friend and I did that, as an injoke and people... sent nice feedback. Sarcasm/irony/parody really doesn't work on some people.
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Date: 2009-01-24 08:26 am (UTC)Do the Jantomafia leave dinosaur or weevil heads in people's beds?
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Date: 2009-01-24 08:30 am (UTC)More specifically in regards to fanfic, it introduces authors to new readers/communities and vice versa.
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 09:17 am (UTC)That's all I'm going to say because, for a change, I disagree with a lot of what you say here, and I find that disconcerting so let's not make a habit of it.
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Date: 2009-01-24 09:43 am (UTC)I'm having issues at the moment with fic writers who write Jack and Ianto as being in a poly relationship, where both of them are having a happy time forming long-term aquanitances with people outside of Torchwood.
Apart from anything else, the reason why the producers have spent two whole series druming into us that Gwen is the only one with a life outside of Torchwood is because Jack, Ianto, Owen and Tosh DO NOT have a life outside of Torchwood. Jack is lonely and Ianto is lonely - this is partly why they turn to each other for their avante garde sex life. Torchwood is a 24/7 lifestyle, especially for Jack because he lives at the Hub and because he's immortal.
As for Ianto being killed off, I'm still 50/50 on whether that will happen or not. But if Ianto IS killed off, then Rhys has to go too, otherwise Miss Cooper is still getting everything her own way.
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Date: 2009-01-24 09:55 am (UTC)Doesn't that end up at Jack/Gwen comfort-each-other-while-grieving, though?
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Date: 2009-01-24 10:07 am (UTC)My biggest issue with Jack/Gwen has always been the idea that Ianto is second best to Gwen, whereas the idea of Captain John being second best to Gwen or any other character wouldn't bother me as much.
But there are several reasons why I don't think Ianto's death in series 3 is a certainty, so we don't need to worry about it yet. Would the producers really be brutal enough to put Jack through another major death so close to Owen and Tosh?
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Date: 2009-01-24 03:57 pm (UTC)I'm not so sure about that. People were convinced that they wouldn't kill off TWO members of the cast.
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Date: 2009-01-24 04:50 pm (UTC)It all boils down to whether RTD thinks that Gareth is too big an asset to the show to left go of him anytime soon. And since he clearly didn't think that about Burn Gorman - :(
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Date: 2009-01-24 05:14 pm (UTC)Yeah, poor Burn. I've been waiting for them to kill off Ianto since the start of series 2.
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Date: 2009-02-03 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 09:49 am (UTC)For me, the thing about prompt tables isn't the prompts in and of themselves as the sheer volume of them, such that they encourage quantity over quality.
I think Ianto's going to die
and then Jack will give up his immortality to bring him back to life in a million bad fanfics written immediately afterwards.no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 10:04 am (UTC)Throwing plot bunnies at each other - well, I don't really do this because if I ever have a badass idea, lord knows I want to be the one to not write it myself. But I guess there's an element of, oh I'd like to see this but I can't be arsed. Or even, though I acknowledge this is very rare in fandom, the odd moment of humble - ie, this writer would be able to pull this off so much better.
Plus, it's like sandwiches. You know how sandwiches are nicer if other people make them, and they're cut triangularly? Same with fic.
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 10:46 am (UTC)As to plot bunnies - well, not everyone can write so I can see people who want to see something written and throw the idea to people who actually can write. Or I can see people who can write but would rather see the thing written by someone else, because maybe they enjoy reading more or just it's that they are curious what would someone else do with their idea.
But why does anyone willingly go and look for plot bunnies to write will stay a mistery for me. Also, the phrase is silly.
WTF is Jantomafia? ;O
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Date: 2009-01-24 10:58 am (UTC)I don't know about Ianto, it depends on whether they want to go the DW, X-files - a man/woman duo only kind of thing for S4 (or there is no S4 - your belief I think).
I can barely open up manips. If I do, I'm usually squinting at them from underneath the table, I find them really embarrassing. So I probably won't be looking at your manips, sorry.
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Date: 2009-01-24 12:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 02:10 pm (UTC)No, seriously. I really have that mental picture. It's really disconcerting.
Prompts are used in any creative writing course/workshop and are actually a fun and useful device to exercise your writing mojo. So, I'm not sure why you want to kill, but you can't kill the bunny. It's very dead already. :P
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:18 pm (UTC)I like writing to prompts mainly because it lets me explore parts of the characters I wouldn't necessarily think to explore.
Try reading the fic I've done to prompts at
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:40 pm (UTC)Although if everyone who likes Jack/Ianto is part of the mafia I think we need to start working on our code names, organisational structure and natty suits.
I'm kind of with you on the prompt table concept - as soon as I see one I run a mile.
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:54 pm (UTC)And also, I don't write my prompts to a table, I just get them from communities and write them like...without tables. Or something. Whatever.
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Date: 2009-01-24 02:59 pm (UTC)Prompts are fine - prompt tables concern me as I feel people just desperately throw out some sort of drabble or dodgy ficlet so that they can cross off a box in the table - not necessarily conducive to quality fic.
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Date: 2009-01-24 03:02 pm (UTC)I don't think I've *ever* written to prompt table conventions. Like..I'm doing
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Date: 2009-01-24 03:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 03:10 pm (UTC)Personally I write to prompts because I have all these random fic parts running through my head. If there is a prompt or something I can streamline all the little bits into something organized.
And so what if something is up with your creative juices, a prompt can get that creativeness flowing again. After I did NaNo this year I had a bit of writers block but I found a good J/I prompt that got me just writing something again. Now all I want to do is write and not just J/I all types of stuff. So I count that as a success, a little prompt got me out of my writing funk. There is nothing wrong with that at all.
Also, am I the only person who more or less assumes, upon reading the words "prompt table" that a fic will be on the mediocre-to-shite end of the spectrum?
I haven't checked out the other comments here before replying to this, but possibly. In my mind I give all fic a start on an level playing field. I don't assume anything, cause I'm sure you know the phrase about assuming.
Also, why do people throw "plot bunnies" at each other? If you couldn't write it yourself, isn't that more or less a hint that the idea, in and of itself, doesn't have legs?
Not at all. Sometimes I have an idea, that I just know is above my writing ability. Instead of just saying oh because I can't do that, I'm going to throw that idea away I see if someone out there would be able to write something with it.
And why are they called "plot bunnies" and am I the only peron who reads those two words and wants to kill?
I have no idea why they are called plot bunnies, but the phrase has been around and not just in fan fic.
Go pimp your comm again. And just say I've read some quality fic that I think would be great on our comm, come check it out.
Nicole
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Date: 2009-01-24 03:19 pm (UTC)As an English major I found that it was easy to write the stories/plots/prompts/etc. that I WANTED to write and do a fantastic job at them because I was inspired and self-motivated to do so, and since only I knew where I wanted the story to go no-one was the wiser when things shifted/changed. The true challenge is attempting to write to a specific idea or within a certain guideline and still reaching that same level of quality/satisfaction. IMHO.
If I did, would people come into my journal and go "Whew! Hawt!!!"
OH GOD YES!!!
Ahem.
I mean of course I would feel obligated to respond in a positive and encouraging manner. ;-p
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Date: 2009-01-24 03:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 03:55 pm (UTC)a) I don't take prompts or challenges because I can't write something on my own. I take it to see if I can do it. If I can stretch myself. Because fanfic is all about taking a pre-built base and making something new out of it, as opposed to professionally written fiction which almost always makes things out of whole cloth.
It's like if you're an athlete who runs an obstacle course. You run the same course after a while, you get good at it, and it's not all that exciting. Someone gives you a challenge, a request, throws another obstacle in your way it means you have to flex your muscles.
As for plot bunnies? You can give someone your idea, but the story they come back with is never going to be anything like what you had in mind. It's fun to see what other direction someone else will go in when you both start from the same point.
If you couldn't write it yourself, isn't that more or less a hint that the idea, in and of itself, doesn't have legs?
Not necessarily. The idea could be good, but the problem could come with a) you not having enough time to write it or b) you being stuck on the execution of a story at a certain place.
I mean, say someone said they had a plot bunny about Suzie and Gwen meeting up long before Torchwood, and you were stuck on how to make this work, given what went down in the first episode and how Suzie and Gwen seemed complete strangers to each other.
But then someone could come up with a plotline concerning Retcon and Suzie and Gwen's secret lesbian relationship and whatnot that you hadn't thought of - because you were stuck.
Or maybe you got that far, but you're stuck on exactly why anyone would do that and what their motives would be, but then another writer clearly sees that maybe the Retcon was part of a bigger plotline, and kind of explains why Jack picked Gwen even though she's not actually that good at her job or something.
But, the fact that you're stuck is not because the idea of Suzie and Gwen having something together pre-Torchwood was a bad idea on it's face.
That's just my take.
I think your reaction to prompt tables and plot bunnies come from the fact that they're most enthusiastically used by writers who haven't quite developed yet.
It seems like writers who have gotten pretty good at the fanfic game don't generate as many wild ideas because they have more filters, more things that make them reject an idea as bad when it actually is bad. They have more reservations about just writing any crazy old thing that pops in their head.
Furthermore, I think that they tend to have a more holistic view of canon, which means that even though they're willing to write around it, they do it more carefully. They don't just put on, say, ship goggles or whatever and see only the bits of the show they want to see.
Whereas writers who maybe haven't gotten there yet just generate idea after idea after idea, and they haven't really figured out how to sort through them and realize that 99% of the ideas that ANY writer comes up with are complete crap. And they only see, for instance in the Whoniverse, only those bits of canon that relate to Jack/Ianto, and any other parts of the show might as well have not happened for them.
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Date: 2009-01-24 04:03 pm (UTC)isn't it possible that someone who can't write could still come up with ideas that could lead to interesting well-written stories? maybe not, though. although I've given out prompts to people and almost always been really pleased with the results. then again I only give out short prompts (I don't believe in throwing out full fledged ideas, I just like to set out a short prompt to let the writer have something to run with) to really good writers so that I'm not disappointed. when I write, it all just sounds clunky and childish compared to the folks that I read.
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Date: 2009-01-24 04:15 pm (UTC)If Ianto dies I will cry and/or throw up on myself. Actually, that's what I hope will happen if he dies. If they kill him and it doesn't even make me cry I'll be pretty pissed off.
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Date: 2009-01-24 04:57 pm (UTC)Me too. :(
You know what irritates me the most with those smooshnames? When people use them in summaries, like, "in this story Janto go to the store!" or "Janto have a baby!" Oooo, that just makes my hair stand on end, in the bad way.
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Date: 2009-01-24 05:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-02-03 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 05:58 pm (UTC)Of course not. It could be that of course, but that's like saying that if you're walking down the street and see something interesting that sparks you into writing a story, that you aren't creative enough to think of an idea on your own. Prompts and challenges are just ways to challenge yourself, basically. And it isn't just fanfic writers. Prompts are valuable to writers in general. Sometimes they develop into fully fledged stories, sometimes they're just ways to get the creative juices flowing in the first place.
Also, am I the only person who more or less assumes, upon reading the words "prompt table" that a fic will be on the mediocre-to-shite end of the spectrum?
I assume that most of anything I read, be it a fanfic or a novel, will be on the mediocre to shite end of the spectrum because, honestly, most of it is. As I said above, prompts are nothing to do with the ability of the writer.
Also, why do people throw "plot bunnies" at each other? If you couldn't write it yourself, isn't that more or less a hint that the idea, in and of itself, doesn't have legs?
Of course not. Sometimes you think of something that you know you wouldn't be able to do justice to yourself. Sometimes you think of something that could be complicated and you don't want to take time away from other projects but someone else might be able to do. Etc.
And why are they called "plot bunnies" and am I the only peron who reads those two words and wants to kill?
Can't help you on that one, and no, you're not.
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Date: 2009-01-25 04:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-24 06:35 pm (UTC)2) should i be scared?
3) i didn't see that *eyes closed*
4) *is confused* rose is GONE, finally
5) pimp it pimp it! i'll pimp it
6) shitty, yes - one time, ianto had no thumbs. NO THUMBS! (i had to look, i couldn't stop myself, like a horrible car crash)
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Date: 2009-02-03 10:04 pm (UTC)I think the best way to get people to post the type of fic you have in mind for ninjateaboy WOULD be to comment on the ones you like and ask them to post it there, but if you don't have time, why NOT just make another invitation on the bigger comms?
I think everything's been said about prompts that could possibly be said. I'd just like to point out that invisible_lift has a prompt table and he's one of the best TW fic writers. Don't know about anyone else. I feel neutral about it.
NO, IANTO'S NOT GOING TO BE KILLED OFF in S3!!! I refuse to believe that. Maybe S4, if there is one.