Random fandom...

[tencrush]

• In defense of me... First of all, I love how when I post something about Barrowman, it never gets linked in the torchwood_three newsletter, because it'll usually be about me thinking he's a bit of a dick. The Barrowmafia is strong. Not that I give a rat's arse, it's just something I've noticed.


• Secondly, I've noticed that the extreme Barrowman love tends to come from Americans. I find that interesting from a sociological perspective, and I can understand where that comes from. A lot of American fans seem to find his out-and-out outness and happy-go-lucky lifestyle refreshingly different. As a European, I find it a mite tedious, and slightly overly perky and, indeed, American. I get outness on my telly and in my parliament and my newspapers and everywhere else on a daily basis, and as soon as you start going OTT with that outness, it strikes me as being a calculated exploitation of one's sexuality, which I associate with camp light entertainers and panto stars like Paul O'Grady and Julian Clary. But then, that's what Barrowman is. And the US doesn't really have Graham Nortons and Paul O'Gradys, and it certainly doesn't have that not-in-your-face outness of politicians and newspeople and actors and whoever that I take for granted over here, so I guess Barrowman is refreshing to a lot of Americans (As an aside, whatever happened to those uber-camp light entertainers I seem to recall the US having back in the seventies and eighties on things like Hollywood Squares and The Love Boat? Did they disappear into the woodwork out when AIDS hit? Did it cease being funny to be stereotypically gay? Were those guys ever really accepted as being gay by mainstream America, or were they just point-and-laugh funny because they acted gay? And why can't I remember any of their names?) But yeah, anyway, I can see why people think he's cool, and seriously, if you love the guy, go for it. There are far worse people on this earth to love, and apart from anything else, I don't think the man has a nasty bone in his body. Apart from the bone that would probably make a joke about the phrase "nasty bone", and that bone's just crude, but not nasty. And if he's got just one Torchwood fan who's never really been in contact with homosexuality and never known anyone who's gay and never really thought about it, to realise that it's okay to be gay and the world isn't going to end because two guys shack up and get a couple of gay dogs and move into your neighbourhood, then that's a great thing, because that's how it works. Go Barrowmanfans, go forth and be happy, I have nothing against you. I just think he's a bit of a dick. But that's just me.


• A specific defense of me, not that I've been named, but I can read between the lines, I never claimed that Barrowman has corrupted the virginal GDL and turned him into a waving-his-cock-in-your-face-type monster. Though I did say something along those lines here once that may have been construed that way. Gareth David-Lloyd is a 27-year-old man and I fully believe that he, like most 27-year-olds, will happily and drunkenly wave his cock in anyone's face, stick it down anyone's throat and possibly even try to stick things up it for a bet just like any healthy boy his age, without the need of ANY encouragement from anyone else. What I DID say was in conjunction with all the hullabaloo surrounding the Hub convention, and it was that I think Barrowman, who's been around a bit and is, let's face it a lot older and presumably wiser, has been a bad influence on convention n00bs like Gareth and Naoko, not in inciting bad behaviour, but in giving the impression that this sort of behaviour is perfectly acceptable. None of that would have been an issue for me were it not for the fact that after that particular convention, vibes were being spread around the interwebs that What Happened At The Hub Should Stay At The Hub, and the impression was given that the actors' behaviour at said convention somehow wasn't palatable for the general public. And in that respect I'm probably just too much of an old woman, and more forgiving of the youngsters, in as much as I think Barrowman really is old enough to know better, and the reason I singled out Barrowman specifically, is because those vibes I mentioned were reported to be coming from him solely, and not from anyone else, which I found hypocritical of someone who so eagerly encourages the crudeness in others. In retrospect, like I've said before, I may have misread the fact that JB specifically didn't want his behaviour getting out. Not being a huge fan of his, I kind of misinterpreted some of the uberBarrowmanettes' tone of "JOHN TALKED TO US OMG I TALKED TO JOHN!!" as "JOHN is the one, out of all of them, who specifically felt this way", simply because that first interpretation doesn't really impress me and therefore I kind of just read over it and went straight for the second. But yeah, that's why I went for John. Make of it what you will.


• Oh, and dudes, I've never claimed that Jack is a subby little bottom. I do, frequently claim Ianto is a dommy little top, which is a hangover from my glee at being proven right in my assertion, all that time ago, that Ianto was a manwhore who pulled the wool over Jack's eyes re. Lisa by distracting him with sex, but I've never once stated that that implies Jack is a subby little bottom. I really should stop reading the anonymeme, I know. I can't help myself.


• Yeah? Ianto's dead, right? Ianto's going to die. I much preferred my voluntary retcon theory, but I'm thinking dead now. There's been... rumours. Oh, and Torchwood's dead. You heard that here first a while back and I stand by it. There will be no show called Torchwood after S3. I'm not ruling out a different show, or an American show, but I don't think there'll be a Torchwood. If there is a S4, which I don't think there will be, it will be a completely different thing than what you all are imagining, it will be six, maybe eight hour-long episodes on Beeb 1 and then Ianto'll die. Whichever way, Ianto will die. And the next person to tell me IT DOESN'T MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE to axe Torchwood as it is, just go away and check how the BBC works again for me, would you? It is a NON-PROFIT organisation, aimed at making QUALITY PROGRAMMING by ROYAL CHARTER with LICENCE FEE MONEY. Sheesh. Read it again, I know no other countries have tv stations that work that way, but the BBC does. End of, stop throwing the money argument into this debate, it's moot. And I LOVE Torchwood, don't get me wrong here, but I know death throes when I see them.


• Oh yes, and when Torchwood is axed, everyone will blame Moffat. Everyone from now on will blame Moffat for EVERYTHING. It's got nothing to do with Moffat, though I do believe Moffat wants nothing to do with Torchwood, but that in itself would not be an adequate reason for the BBC to axe the show. The hate for Moffat is strong, and it's completely unfounded, and it's only going to get worse and worse and worse. I weep for this fandom, I really do. I still love you, Steven.

As you were.

Comments

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

If Ianto is killed off, we're affectively left with the Jack, Gwen and Rhys show right, with every other episode being spent showing Jack and Rhys arguing over the welfare of super-special Gwen.

If this is true - if - I hope it's a dramatic and well acted death scene, resulting in Gareth getting a career boost. It's the only good thing that could come out of it.

And they could also use the reset button with Ianto, Owen and Tosh at some point in the future. It's sci-fi after all.

[tencrush]

Well, this latest rumour, if true, says to me O HAI WE ARE KILLING UR SHOW, and if it's true it seems to me that there is no way they're making a series 4.

[jo02]

Re the first paragraph - that is why I friended, so nobody could keep me away from the real news, reviews, and entertainment.

And re the predictions about Ianto dying - this is why I insist on being spoiled. If I watched the show next year and Ianto's death came out of the blue, I would be so devastated I would scream for hours like that guy out of 'Adrift'. At least with a few months warning I can prepare myself in some small way and contain my grief to sobbing under the desk and ranting in my journal. Or being pleasantly surprised if in fact he survives, gets engaged to Jack, and the (new) Doctor lends them the TARDIS for their honeymoon.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

But but but Ianto is the one people like. Kill... Ianto?

[tencrush]

Evol Moff made them do it.

[(Anonymous)]

Umm...can someone tell me where they heard this rumour? I can't understand how I've missed it??

[unfolded73.livejournal.com]

Everyone from now on will blame Moffat for EVERYTHING.

Truer words were never spoken. The armies have amassed against him, and by 2010 will have whipped themselves into such a fever pitch that it really won't matter what he puts on the screen, they will hateses it.

[wiley-nilly.livejournal.com]

Do you have any idea how giddy I get when I see you've posted something treatise-y? Keep 'em coming.

I am aware on something I call "Barrowman Lag". When he has something to sell, he's fricking everywhere on Brit TV. Every. Where. For the last two springs, I've been in the UK when he's had show or record to sell and he just shows up everywhere. My friends in Plymouth don't necessarily not like him, they're just sick of him. Sick unto dying.

I think he's pretty enough, at the right camera angle. Glad he didn't like the botox (he looked really scary with it). Glad he's in a stable loving relationship, and has a great family who loves him.

But, enough.

I'm all for self promotion; I do a lot of it myself. But, jeeze louise, we get it - you're gay, you're out. And you're out there.

Okay. Enough from me.

Thanks for posting.

[kelspots.livejournal.com]

I'm pouting, not because you're so cynical, but because you're so right. *pout*

[off_coloratura]

While there are ultra campy-camp types still out there (believe me, I work in opera, I've seen 'em all), I do think with the growing lobbying for gay rights in America it's less acceptable to be a screaming stereotype. Portrayal of gays is now more about "they're just like anyone else" because the more of the campy stuff there is, the more nervous Conservative America gets.

There is even now a bit of a stigma in America against actors coming out, especially romantic lead types like Barrowman, and that's part of what's refreshing about him. I find the casual, "so what" attitude towards homosexuality in England also incredibly mature and enlightened.

As indeed the fact that being intelligent and educated is admired there.

[takenatwork.livejournal.com]

I'm probably way off topic here, sorry, but I think what annoys me most about JB is the belief that they have created something in Torchwood that is an example to everybody about gay attitudes. But I think it was more to do with luck, then design. Originally Gwen was Jack's love. Ianto was to be killed off early and Owen was straight, so the gay was more implied then actual. And I still think if Gareth had been one of those sniffy actors who maintained it's only acting and refused to talk about it, they probably couldn't have moved as far forward as they have done. And I know JB can't help luck and I think it's great the show has done what it has done, and it should be pleased with itself, and JB is a happy person, and I'm probably rambling nonsense, but on this particular point I have issues with JB.

I'm not sure what the latest spoilers are, but if it is that Jack does something to cause Ianto's death, I hope it's for a real reason. My worst fear is that he tries to make sure Ianto doesn't find out about his 'dark' past. This trying to keep Jack's secrets secret is really tedious and uninspiring, and would be a dreadful way for Ianto to die. I agree that if they kill off any more characters then there is no S4.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

**nods about Torchwood**

I assume you're referring to my posts the last couple of days.

Hence why I am stocking the fallout shelter now. If it comes to pass as I've been told, I grudgingly and bitterly admit that it will kill the fandom.

(Who, me? Still bitter and cynical over Owen's death? Nah...)

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Hence why I am stocking the fallout shelter now. If it comes to pass as I've been told, I grudgingly and bitterly admit that it will kill the fandom.'
You mean it's not dead already? I was on torch_wood (after not going there for a few months) today and I was shocked by how little fic there was. I guess most people have moved on to Supernatural and Merlin.

'(Who, me? Still bitter and cynical over Owen's death? Nah...)'
I know how you feel. *weeps for Tosh*

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'or an American show, but I don't think there'll be a Torchwood.'
That makes sense. They have done an American version of Life on Mars. I doubt I'll watch an American Torchwood.

'IT DOESN'T MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE to axe Torchwood as it is...'
I'm guessing someone from outside the UK, who doesn't know how the BBC works, said that.

'# And I LOVE Torchwood, don't get me wrong here, but I know death throes when I see them.'
Yeah, even if they don't cancel Torchwood after series 3 (which is looking less and less likely), if they kill off Ianto I'm just going to pretend they did cancel it. I have no desire to watch the Jack/Gwen/Rhys show.

[louiex.livejournal.com]

I'm relatively excited to see Moffat's take on the new DW series, as a new POV on shows like this are always fun (look at the boom going from the 8th Doctor movie to RTD's revisioning with CE as the 9th Doctor). However, I was always under the assumption that RTD's sticky fingers were all over TW and Moffat wasn't going to have anything really to do with it.

As for what these predictions are about death of the snarkiest boy from the Valleys, well.... look what RTD did to Donna. I'd like to believe that he actually cared about the characters beyond shock/emo value (as really, if you think about things for longer than a few seconds, Donna's situation could have been easily handled ala a fob watch, no?) but considering the near rabid fan-draw that Ianto does have, it seems like it would be series suicide to an extent. Is that what happens to sensible people who match up to main characters in RTD's mind? No, I don't want Ianto to die if for any other reason than I weep for Rhys probably getting jilted so Gwen and Jack can have their 'star-crossed lovers' plot.

Though, after losing Tosh and Owen (which ow, still tender there as I was rather enamored with Owen), it certainly makes the realistic threat of death at a crap job like TW a lot more likely. Thanks RTD D:

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

Though, after losing Tosh and Owen (which ow, still tender there as I was rather enamored with Owen), it certainly makes the realistic threat of death at a crap job like TW a lot more likely.

Join the club....we have jackets and cool name tags. LOL

I keep hearing people say that theres NO WAY they'll kill him off. You know what, the show has consistently done things everyone has sworn that they would never do. They won't kill off two main characters in one season, it would be crazy? They did it. They won't kill off another main character so close to killing off the first 2? Yeah, don't bet on that.

[mslauren2930.livejournal.com]

Yeah? Ianto's dead, right? Ianto's going to die. I much preferred my voluntary retcon theory, but I'm thinking dead now.

well I suppose if you're going to kill a show, why not kill the character that would cause so much of the fanbase to leave anyway?

but if it means Gareth comes to the States and gets work... well, then I can't say I'll be terribly disappointed (depending on the show, that is). maybe he'll show up as a recurring character/demon on SPN, which would be all kinds of awesome... but that's just me. ;)

I figured the show was being left for dead when they decided on the 5-part season 3. I hope it airs while SAG is on strike here in the US, because a girl can watch only so much college basketball before she needs a break for something different.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'maybe he'll show up as a recurring character/demon on SPN, which would be all kinds of awesome... but that's just me. ;)'
I don't even watch SPN, but I would tune in for that. It wouldn't be the first time someone from Torchwood showed up on SPN.

[cirrocumulus.livejournal.com]

1) On the Barrowman: as an American myself I find some of his behavior just as tedious at times as you do. Of course he does frequently make me laugh hysterically but I don't see his behavior as refreshing, really.

2) IF IANTO DIES IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME THAT I HAVE EVER CRIED OVER A TV SHOW, I just know it. Oh, god. I'd be a wreck. For a long long time. And then Torchwood getting axed alongside it... I do not know how the hell else I would spend my time. I can't go through that!

How corroborated are these rumors?

Although, I must say, I am also a wee bit excited about having my emotions thoroughly thrashed by a tragic Ianto!death. It's not often that I am strongly emotionally effected by TV, and even movies have a tough time on me, so if it does really get to me I'll at least be appreciative enough of that fact to let it go, maybe. What will piss me off most is if they kill him and it doesn't effect me because it's done poorly and all I'll be left with is a dead Ianto and nothing to show for it.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'What will piss me off most is if they kill him and it doesn't effect me because it's done poorly and all I'll be left with is a dead Ianto and nothing to show for it.'
I worry about that too. Know the Torchwood writers, I've always been afraid that they'll kill him off JUST SO they can put Jack/Gwen together.

[kurthummel.livejournal.com]

Point One: I think that's the #1 difference: culture. Doesn't make one person wrong and the other person right, it's just that we don't get much Barrowman over here. I'll be the first to admit he's over the top. But I guess I just enjoy that enough of the time. Anyway, I didn't want it to turn into a big deal.

Point Two: As far as Gareth, John, and whoever else getting their cocks out goes, I'm not really concerned, but I don't think John is necessarily the ringleader, so to speak. I think they all spark a flame whenever they're together that's prone to being quite naughty. Considering John has now had to apologize to the Beeb for getting his nuts out in a small room with just DJs present (but oh, because it was getting broadcast, that was the thing; sorry, I don't see the big deal), he's a sex maniac. Maybe he is. Maybe he's totally addicted to sex or even has a problem. Either way, it doesn't keep me up at night, thankfully.

Ran a tangent there. My frustrations are high not because of this but because PayPal and my bank, Wells Fargo, have royally fucked up my credit.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I hate Wells Fargo....my car loan is through them, they keep charging me late fees in error, and everytime I think we have things straightened out, it takes them calling me 20 times (and me telling off every single one of their agents that calls me) to fix it and stop calling me.

[louisema.livejournal.com]

nooooooooo not Ianto! Ianto-less Torchwood would just be a Gwack/Gwys fest, and we don't need that on our screens.

Are we sure about the there-will-be-no-more-Torchwood-after-S3 thing? They did just get in new characters to replace Tosh and Owen...and New Doctor, at least, is pretty easy on the eye...

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

"New Doctor" is not confirmed as actually joining the cast permanently. Julie Gardner has even stated we're given red herrings in regards to new or returning cast.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

Heh....**facepalm**
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081201/ten-barrowman-sorry-for-show-exposure-5f8abb3.html

[tencrush]

Lol.

[fujiko-2708.livejournal.com]

Arrrgh! I can't be this stressed over a bloody TV show. Bloody Torchwood indeed!

Pessimistic, aren't you? I've got the vague feeling you're just trying to exorcise your/ours "fears" about Ianto. Why should it be Ianto the one to die, anyway? From what we know, or don't know, it could be all sorts of different scenarios. Wait, I've got several.

Gwen dies. And Jack sends Ianto away/retcons him because he can't stand to lose him.

Ianto dies. And Jack goes and put his neck on the railway track finally becoming the Face of Boe.

Both Eve and Gareth resign from Torchwood because they can't deal with the Barrowman anymore (bless him me loves the guy :))

Seriously, what is this big spoiler on the DW forum? I can't go there and check for myself at the moment.

[tencrush]

Well, the rumour pertains to Ianto, specifically. And it's not from DWF, it's been hinted at around LJ.

[hel-bee.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... well if the TW theory turns out to be true, then I really am the Black Widom for any fandom I'm involved.

For Harry Potter I liked Snape - dead
For ST:Enterprise it was Tucker... dead
Torchwood, Ianto's my boy.... bugger!

The guys from Top Gear better hope this affliction only extends to fictional characters.

Oh, congrats on your nano performance - we did ourselves proud!

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

You would not be alone: HP, check (I liked Sirius Black too, double check); ST:ENT, check; TW, check(ish?); and I love Spock, ST:OS check (but he, at least, came back).

It seems it was always a fan favorite being abused to ensure that the viewers had an unforgettable emotional tie to the series in question. IOW: cheap.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

I feel speshul for musing about Ianto dying as 'a big change for Jack' for months, even though everybody ignored me...

[travellingone.livejournal.com]

Thank god i'm not the only one who finds Barrowman's routine tired and overdone. I cringe when I see him on tv.

[cs-whitewolf.livejournal.com]

I cannot speak on behalf of other Torchwood_Three editors, and looking only at this Barrowman-related post, I personally would not have linked it as it isn't Torchwood related and I endeavour to make sure, when I'm coding, that any posts about the actors are Torchwood centric before adding them in.

That said, because you do have a part/opinion about Torchwood in regards to S3 I'd be inclined to add it to the newsletter, but only in the sense that I'd be saying you were talking about the TW spoilers and not mentiong JB at all.

So basically, I'm replying to check that you want your post linked, knowing that I'm only going to be linking for the TW Spoilers? I'll be posting the newsletter around 11pm, so if I don't hear from you before then and you did want it linked, I'll make sure the next editor includes it in their post.

Thanks,
CS WhiteWolf

[tencrush]

Normally I'm not particularly bothered, but yes, I would like this post linked.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

I am wondering if this is one of those wild rumours that fly about between seasons and turn out to have no basis. I know GDL is going to the US to film a pilot, but with most pilots not turning into shows, I would be very surprised if he has left TW for that. Anyhow even if he did, they would be daft to kill him off.

The other thing is the death cliffhanger which leaves you hanging and gets fixed next season. I live in the UK and watch very little US telly, I really don't want GDL to go all hollywood, yuk.

The BBC do make a lot of money out of selling TW all over the world, and off the DVD's and any other merchandise. They really won't want to kill it, not at all. It actually doesn't make sense. They think about money a lot, I know people who work there, or have done so, and had a friend whose job was selling the programmes abroad.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

As sad as Tosh/Owen's deaths were, Torchwood is the Jack Harkness show.

Ianto and Gwen are probably expendable as cast members. Look what happened to the team before theirs. Dead. Before that. Dead. Suzie. Dead.

If Barrowman leaves, that's when the show jumps shark.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

Contary to popular belief, Torchwood could easily survive without JB because it's only fangirls who'd complain or stop watching as a result. The general public either don't mind JB or hate him full-stop. Torchwood has attracted half the number of viewers that programmes like Life on Mars and Spooks have got, so he's not THAT big a pull.

They said that Star Trek could never survive with Kirk and Spock back in the 1980's.

[boji.livejournal.com]

Oh, and Torchwood's dead. You heard that here first a while back and I stand by it. There will be no show called Torchwood after S3.

Personally I'm still stunned that Torchwood got a second series, let alone the third that's coming. From the moment RTD said he was leaving, way, way, way back when specials were announced I thought that he'd tie TW off to end with his run of DW.

TW has been wildly inconsistent in terms of quality - where episodic drama is concerned - and it never really managed to be the dark/grown-up sibling of Who that it claimed it wanted to be. So, yeah...

I've long figured its days are numbered.

ETA: But then a great deal of the time I love the show for what it could be, rather than what it is. *g*

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

But RTD is not leaving TW....he only stepped down from DW.