I have hidden depths...

[tencrush]

• Okay, first off, let me just say: Radio plays are SLOOOWWW. They always are, I've heard enough BBC radio productions to be more or less used to the pacing of radio plays. They're not action-packed. Having said that, this was REALLY SLOW. In as much as there was no action in the action scenes. Which was certainly odd.


• Problem the first, and boy, do I wish it wasn't problem the first because it makes me sound like a broken record, but there you go: Barrowman. I often complain about his KERAZEEACTINGFAYCE in Torchwood, but without the face the man has even less to go on, and delivers absolutely nothing. Most notably in the scenes after Gwen and Ianto end up in the tunnel and Martha ends up God knows where, there was just nothing there. There was no tension, no stress, no worry, he was just reading some lines, not a care in the world. No.


• Problem the second: Agyeman. Now, I watched that Ten/Martha cartoon thing that was on Totally Doctor Who, so I was prepared for some lacklustre delivery on Freema's part, and I got what I was expecting. The inevitable pairing off of Gwen/Ianto and Martha/Jack just made it that much worse. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am SO grateful that Freema's not going to be on Torchwood. She doesn't bring out anything in John and lord knows he needs beating with a stick into non-mediocrity by whomever he's playing off. It's why I like the Ianto/Jack pairing so much, I've said that before as well, Gareth brings out way more in the way of goodness in John than any of the rest of the cast do. Freema. Does not.


• Eve and Gareth were both pretty much great. I wasn't expecting to like Eve as much as I did, so I was pleasantly surprised. I've heard Gareth do readings and voice stuff, so I knew what to expect and I got it. The fact that they were paired off worked well for them, possibly not so well for us. Actingwise, John/Gareth and Eve/Freema(a pairing I didn't actually mind in Reset, I thought they worked reasonably well together) would have probably been a better idea, but so be it.


• Storywise: Bla bla... technobabble. What a load of tosh. And again with the religious overtones, what is it with Russell and company and religion? But yeah, neutrons? I'm pretty sure you'd just kind of not be if you lost your neutrons. Not that I'm any sort of nuclear physicist or anything... something Jack is, by the way. I hate exposition, and exposition about physics... by Jack? Oh, LOLOL.


• And so we come to Ianto. And not just any Ianto. Emo!Ianto. Oh, boy. I had quite a problem with Emo!Ianto, I have to say. I really thought we'd got past this whole woobie tummyrat thing by now, but apparently we haven't. And Lisa? Did we really have to bring in Lisa? See, the thing is, if this is Ianto's emotional state, if he is still this open to emotional manipulation on the Lisa front, and if he is still this fragile, I'm kind of back to square one on the whole Ianto front. It's like a whole season of character development on Ianto's part never happened and it brings me back to my initial reservations about Jack and Ianto and the whole sex thing. Jack's a far older, wiser guy and Ianto, according to Lost Souls, is still a very damaged young man. And whatever it is that's going on between them (and let's face it, Jack didn't seem particularly concerned that Ianto was disintegrating, but okay, I digress), really, Jack should know better and have more self-restraint than to go there. It's icky. So yeah, I'm not impressed with Emo!Ianto, I have to say. Ho hum on the Ianto front.


• BUT... but but but, then again... "Gwen... come in Gwen... my bike has a bell", the whole ambassador spiel and his glee at Jack being his assistant, "I have hidden depths" and "They have a big camera?" and such really do make up for a lot.


• Score out of ten? Ummm... 6??? Yeah. I'll say 6. But that is me being slightly nice.


• ETA: Oh yeah, and Martha/Jack? Sorry... doesn't work for me. On any level. Never has done, never will. There's nothing there, don't even TRY to make me believe there is.


• The Archers was on before Lost Souls and I do believe The Archers actually contained more smutty innuendo than Lost Souls did. I hate to say it, but Torchwood really doesn't work without a reasonable level of smutty innuendo. Not even a Big bang joke in sight. Shame on you, Lidster.

Comments

[ionlylurkhere.livejournal.com]

LOL, our opinions on the voice acting are almost completely opposite. But yeah, nothing much happened, did it? I suspect that aspect would have been worse in the context of the Special Event Day on Radio 4, as all the exposition about CERN that filled the first half was presumably there in the earlier documentaries without the nagging sense that maybe they made that bit up.

I think it's reasonable for Ianto to be past all the half-Cyber-converted-down-in-the-basement-hidden-from-Jack side of the Lisa thing while still being vulnerable to general grief for a person you loved who is now gone. Being a bit more together doesn't make it go away completely, and it's not like the Neutron Angels were threatening to tell Jack something he already knew or whatever. Also, everyone was being emo (except Martha, who was there to ask everyone about their emo), so it pinged me as Ianto's version of this week's moral rather than something specifically targeted at him.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

except Martha, who was there to ask everyone about their emo
Except for Ianto of course, we didn't get a 'Martha asks Ianto to unburden himself emotionally' scene.

[mbs-library.livejournal.com]

Sounds dull... very, very dull. So not a good thing, but we'll survive it, yes?

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

gwen was the best part about that
and i'm not wholly a gwen fan
martha, even though i have liked her in the past, was... meh
jack was just... he made me laugh, but not in a good way
and ianto was... slightly bi-polar, as always

I blame the script mostly.......

[(Anonymous)]

......well, about 80% Lidster's script (which was not good), and 20% John B. With a better script JB's lack of voice talent could have been overlooked.

And I say this as someone who thinks that, at times, John can be really subtle and good on-screen. Come to think of it, mostly in his scenes with GDL, so your theory on been dragged out of mediocrity may be correct.

Glad this Lidster guy isn't writing anything for Series 3.

Still enjoyed this bit of audio pulp fiction, though!

[louiex.livejournal.com]

Most notably in the scenes after Gwen and Ianto end up in the tunnel and Martha ends up God knows where, there was just nothing there. There was no tension, no stress, no worry, he was just reading some lines, not a care in the world. No.

Yeah that bothered me. I already have issues with Jack showing little concern for Ianto on a general basis (ie: Meat when he was nearly shot/got pummeled or Fragments where the lad didn't even get more than a pat on the chest after being crushed by a building). Is it in the quest to not show favoritism? Or... what?

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

I think that Jack's concern for Ianto shows more than it sounds. That is, I think that scene would have played better if we could have seen Jack's face rather than just hearing him.

[louiex.livejournal.com]

I was hoping that as well~ But, it does bring me some consolation that Gwen seems quite happy to remind Ianto to think of coffee and Jack as things to hold onto to fight the death-angels. She really trumped herself in my opinion in this (If anything maybe she'll put her own stop to the gwack) :D

Re: Favoritism

[(Anonymous)]

Apparently...especially now that it's Jack/Gwen/Ianto. Not only did Jack show no real emotion for the fact that Ianto was glowing (and not in a good way), Jack was very careful to always address Gwen and Ianto (in that order), no matter the situation. I think once, he actually decided to act a bit and stress their names differently...but all the rest of the time? EQUAL. This seems to be the latest trend...

(Well, didn't Jack pat Ianto on the back in Fragments? Right around the area of his newly relocated shoulder? Maybe Comfort!Jack isn't a good idea. ;) )

I would've thought JB would be good at this voice stuff. He just gave me the impression that he wasn't too thrilled with the script. But, hey, he really got into that "We're having a baby!" line. The hell? LOL

The problem with Emo!Ianto here for me is End of Days. If I recall correctly, he didn't join the mutiny to be reunited with Lisa, but because he thought it would save lives. (Then, Adam shows he's basically moved on.) Now, he wants to be with Lisa and Tosh...and Owen?!? His resolve didn't last too long. Even Jack and coffee couldn't convince him to fight?? OK, so Ianto was in a vulnerable state; Martha didn't give him a chance to talk out his issues. I'll give him a pass this time.

And for the love of GOD, can Ianto not be associated with coffee in every frickin' "episode"? (Sorry, that's just my pet peeve. Probably because I've read too much fanfic lately, but here Gwen is using it to sway Ianto back to the land of the living??? So sad. LOL)

I completely agree about Martha/Jack. (Why, just...why? She might actually try to kiss him again now. *shudder*) And I think a 6 was awfully nice; I would've given it a 5.

[nobleroman1.livejournal.com]

Well, I have to agree about Freema and JB. If possible, JB was consistently worse than Freema (but he has a nice singing voice, though. Just trying to keep it positive).

The above notwithstanding, I found that I really liked the play. I was not bothered by Emo!Ianto, at all. He is suffering survivor's guilt. Though he may have been well on the way to healing, with Jack's help, Tosh and Owen's deaths put him back at square one, I would think. I don't believe the point of the scenes was about him not being over Lisa per se', but rather about allowing the audience to see how his teammates' deaths truly effected him. How he's suffering because of their loss. To equate the pain and loss of losing Lisa to that of losing Tosh/Owen is allowing the audience to gauge Ianto's regard/true feeling for them in the way that Exit Wounds did not. Tosh's death scene, and the final log out scene was very much about Jack /Gwen’s pain; Ianto was the stoic one. He's the one that barely showed any emotion (because as someone stated, Gwen needed Jack as rock, and Jack need Ianto as a bolder, which of course meant by extension, he was a bolder for them both, with no one to support him). Yes, we *assumed* that Ianto felt the loss, but the play established it and its degree into canon.

As for Jack, yeah, he’s still just as screwed up as Ianto. I wasn’t disturbed by his lack of concern, at all. Heck he was just as detached with Gwen on the Bluetooth. As he said to Martha, he can’t run the risk of losing either of them; as a result, he must be the strong one, the one in control, Captain Jack Harkness, Torchwood. Maintain control and hopefully he’ll be able to hold on to them that much longer. Hence his words to Gwen, just get out of there, no time to coddle, that won’t solve the problem, that won't save you and Ianto.

[cirrocumulus.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm listening to it now and though I still have about 15 minutes left, this really sucks. So much that I kind of don't want to consider it canon. Could I do that reasonably? Does a radio play fit into the canon with as much veracity as the actual episodes?

I'd kind of settled into this happy-bubble of Janto-love because I'd forgotten how much they love to fuck up their relationship back to square one every other episode. I hope season 3 is more coherent. A LOT more coherent.

[louisema.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I was really looking forward to this - it's been so long since we had a proper Torchwood episode to over-analyse! - and I was distinctly underwhelmed. I actually ran home after work to get to listen to it sooner and I really wish I hadn't. I have to agree with you on pretty much everything you've said, even down to giving the thing 6/10 when a friend asked before I read this!

Much though I love JB, I do often feel like he's got a scarily long way in acting with a seriously limited range of facial expressions which he uses to convey emotion without really doing much else. Also I just couldn't buy the whole "Jack knows more about particle physics than the particle physicists at CERN" thing.

My other major major complaint? "I have to be strong for Gwen...........and Ianto." MUST YOU?! This completely undid all the good work Eve was doing in terms of getting me to like Gwen for the first time ever.

Also sorry for long and seemingly random post - I've been following your LJ for a while but only just got it myself.

[nobleroman1.livejournal.com]

You found it odd that Jack was suddenly brilliant, and I found it odd that Gwen knew about Owen's X-ray invention. Much like the writing of Gwen in Exit Wounds, I felt the writer in this play was trying to give her techno knowledge than was believable. It felt false. Gwen inspiring someone to stand fight the enemy, I buy, but Gwen understanding Owen's invention? Just, no.

Yeah, Jack knows he has to stay strong for Gwen, because otherwise she *can't go on (reference to final scene in EW).* Ianto on the other hand, perhaps Jack's sigh/pause was due to the fact that he realizes that it's actually Ianto who stays strong for him, not the other way around.

[louisema.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I think I'm a bad person because I tend to miss stuff because I'm so desperately looking for some hint that maybe, just maybe, Capt. Jack does not JUST see Ianto as some sort of sex slave, so I didn't really notice the Gwen-knows-about-Owen's-medical-stuff so much, although now you mention it, yes, that was a bit odd. Unless she's been digging around in his stuff since he died?!

It was more a reaction to the vast difference between the "I have to stay strong for Gwen........." and the "I came back for you......all of you." in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. The second one PLEASED ME, because it implied that Jack at least has some feelings, perhaps, for Ianto. The one from Lost Souls? Not so much. Although I would like to believe that Lidster meant us to read from it what you read. I'm going to try that :)

Having said that, from an interview I read with Lidster, I'm not sure how much he actually knows about what happened in the last series and his comment that it was "fun" to "play around with" the Jack/Gwen/Ianto dynamic sends shivers down my spine in a BAD WAY.

[nobleroman1.livejournal.com]

If Lidster had written KKBB, then I'd buy the comparison, but he didn't. CC wrote KKBB. I think the delivery in the play may fall down to JB's delivery, and god only knows what he was attempting to convey. Based on some of his alleged ad-libs, the man really should just stick to script (but he has a nice sing voice though. Trying end on a positive not when it comes to JB :-) ).

Honestly, you can interpret the line as either pro Gwen or pro Ianto. It all depends on how you choose to dissect the sigh. I mean it could imply he views his concern for Ianto as a burden, or as more emotionally overwhelming.

[louisema.livejournal.com]

*sniff* either way, it's ALL SPECULATION again and please please please won't the script writers just TELL US one way or the other?!

And yes, most of it IS in the actors' delivery, both here and in every single episode of the TV series, and a lot of the Jack/Ianto relationship and how we perceive it is based not so much on what the lines are but on how the actors deliver them and how they act the part - and so we have no idea if that's Barrowman and GDL deciding or if it's actually part of some overall master plan somewhere. *frustration* It's all interpretation, and it leads to confusion and long discussion like this one!

I'm with you on the singing voice, though. Torchwood: the Musical. I'd go see that.

[(Anonymous)]

Based on Lidster's "A Day in the Death," I think he sees Jack as more detached, more Commander-in-Chief, not so conspicuously attached to anyone in particular. The way in which he wrote Jack in the play is very much reminiscent of the way he characterized him in the above mentioned episode.

As for his putting a new twist on the Jack/Ianto/Gwen dynamic, I suspect that’s what the Ambassador/Wife/Assistant shtick was all about.

[(Anonymous)]

Oops, sorry, forgot to log-in. The above comment is by Nobleroman1.

[louisema.livejournal.com]

Ooh! I hadn't really registered that similarity and wouldn't have known off the top of my head that it was the same writer if I had. Shall we put it down as more proof that tencrush's piece of A4 is needed for the sake of our sanity?

I quite enjoyed that, if only because the idea of putting Ianto so obviously in POWER over Jack pleases me.

[jenny-b79.livejournal.com]

Hello, sorry this is days late but have only just stumbled across this thread. Is Ianto taking on more of Tosh's technical stuff while Gwen is doing more medical stuff? It seemed that Ianto was doing the computer hacking, while Gwen was just reading from the list (plus he understood the program in Stolen Earth/Journey's End) - so I suppose that leaves Gwen to try to pick up some of the medical slack.