Journey's End

[tencrush]

Okay, slightly more ordered thoughts on Journey's End.

• First few minutes: SHIT. That's not cliffhanger resolution, Russell, that's just fucking copping out of a plot point you've blatantly inserted just to keep people watching and nothing more. The redirecting of the regeneration energy was a cheap and nasty stunt to pull, and the way it played out, the "Now... where were we?" "Regenerate? Moi?" blasé nature of the scene even made the actors involved cringe. And it's not often we see Barrowman cringe, let's face it, he normally just does whatever it says in the script and feels fabulous about it. And speaking of cringing... the Hub's in a time bubble, is it, Ianto? Again, Russell, pulling a sekrit weapon out of absolutely fucking nowhere does not constitute what the minions working you for seem to want us to label as "brilliant storytelling". Rubbish. Cheap, nasty, substandard writing. Plus, what you were really doing there was telling us "These two have served their purpose for now, let's put them in stasis because I'm too lazy to work out what else to do with them." Yuck. Just to annoy us, of course, to compensate for these two AWFUL resolutions, Russell gives us one example of a great cliffhanger resolution in the shape of unexpected-Mickey-and-Jackie. That's more like it.


• No, honestly, for some reason, once Ten started regenerating at the end of The Stolen Earth, I really let myself believe that there was going to be a regeneration. I'd heard all the rumours, I was spoiled about the two Doctors thing, and the fact that one of them goes off with Rose, and yet... I thought the whole thing was a brilliant ruse. I thought they'd really cleverly hidden the fact that Tennant was going to regenerate. Yeah, alright, so I'm a dickhead, but honestly, he was REGENERATING... you can't just cop out of a regeneration like that, Russell, it's a disgustingly dirty trick and it's made me glad you're fucking off. Good riddance.


• What's with the stereotypical old German woman, by the way? Did the Indigo thingy take Martha to a Germany filled with comedy 70's porn German landladies?


• Ummm... Rose crossed a bunch of parallel worlds just to find the Doctor?? Way to go on the characterisation there, Rusty. I always knew that the whole point of Rose is that her life is just absolute shit and not worth living without him. I mean, I fanwanked away that she learned something and that she was on a parallel world moving on with her life post Doomsday, but thank you for reminding me that it was just absolutely ridiculous of me to think that.


• Yes, so... 10.5. I'm trying to work out what the reason was for creating 10.5, and not having Donna just turn into the DoctorDonna due to the regeneration energy, and seriously, I'm afraid the only reason I can come up with is theat 10.5 exists purely so that he can go off and snog Rose later. That is so cheap and nasty. The one good thing to come out of the snogging, though? It's a scene that not only non-shippers like myself HATE with a passion, but look, the Ten/Rose shippers hate it too!! That's what comes from trying to please everyone with your fanwank, Russell, you end up pissing off THE ENTIRE WORLD.


• Yo... who's with me that Mickey and Jackie are an item? Come on. Young child and Alt!Pete notwithstanding, there was totally something going on there.


• Oh... some good things: The Doctor turning his companions into weapons thing was actually a reasonable and valid point and struck a chord, and Davros' maniacal evil laugh was hysterical.


• Having said that, the Dalek threat seemed simply nonexistent. The actual Dalek/Davros/Realitybomb storyline had no tension in it whatsoever. It was rubbish. And how exactly would 10.0 have solved the problem? Would he have let the Daleks live and rehomed them somewhere?


• YAY UNEXPECTED K9!!! Good Dog!


• DONNA WAS FUCKING BRILLIANT. DOCTORDONNA EVEN MORE SO. Condemning her to a life where all her character progression was for nothing is a fucking evil thing to have done to her. Seriously. It's fucking awful.


• Despite all this, there bits of this episode I quite enjoyed. Overall, though, no.


• TRAILERWATCH: Yeah, that was David Morrissey. The fact that he was in the trailer kind of tells me that he's not the new Doctor. He was however, standing in front of something to with a boat or indeed an airship, and those Cybermen were Cybus Industries Cybermen. From the alt!universe. Rose's alt!universe. Why doesn't someone just kill me now?


• ETA: LOL BTW, at Ten's insistence that Ten.5 was some sort of genocidal maniac. Was that just because Ten.0's own attempts at genocide were so shockingly unsuccessful?

TORCHWOOD THINGS:
Yeah, Gwen and Ianto may as well not have been in this episode and Jack was just some other guy. At least Sarah Jane got to be slightly worried and eager to get back to Luke. Jack just saunters off through the park with Martha (Yeah, Martha, the UNIT drone Martha, good Lord, why on earth would he offer her a job??). Maybe he'll go and check on what's left of his team in a day or two, yeah? It's not like he cares about them or anything.

I don't mind the idea of Mickey being in TW. Martha being in TW, however, may make me stop watching. Sorry Gareth, but not even your buttony nose can make that one better. She's a godawful actress, she's a badly written and inconsistent character, I can't stand her. They couldn't write a decent story for her in three episodes, what on earth makes them think they could do it for a series?

I'm so depressed right now.

Comments

[louiex.livejournal.com]

I love how you can put everything that made me mad about that into neat, well-put together bulleted points. <3

Seriously, this whole season was to appease Rose and her mighty need of the Tiemcock, wasn't it? Rusty's Mary-Sue Rose not only did what the Doctor told her not to do -which was to try to cross the universes again as that would make things collapse- but correct me if I'm wrong, she said she built it to find him and then oddly enough STRANGE SHIT STARTED HAPPENING. So... did big ol' Bad Wolf Rose perpetuate the universe ending... again? Then throw a bit snit-fit over 10.5 and 10.0 WHILE GETTING WHAT SHE WANTED? Seriously, no wonder the Doctor and Donna RAN back into the TARDIS! How terrible of her to just grab 10.5 like that IN FRONT OF THE DOCTOR to flaunt the happy ending he's giving her.

And Donna. What... What? I would have been okay with this if her losing everything was HER choice in order to save the universe. It was a sacrifice she'd have to make blah blah blah. But to just have him take it seems wrong. Why couldn't he scale back his awesomess on the speakers in her brain from 11 to I dunno, like an 8? I was chatting with a friend online while we were both watching it and half in jest she said it was like mindrape and I'm not sure if I want to start toeing that line but damn... pretty damn close to what it was!

Though Ianto/Office Furniture ought to make Jack happy with his happy office fetish~

[tencrush]

I'm sure Jack'll be too busy with the omnisexual sluttery he always seems to revert back to in Who. And seriously, I don't care if he's an omnisexual slut and with Ianto at the same time (in fact, I'd find it highly enjoyable if that was the case, as long as that case was clear to all concerned), I just wish his character was more consistent throughout the two shows.

[louiex.livejournal.com]

Considering Jack had what, about five-six lines in the whole thing,he did get in that three-doctors fantasy line~ That does lend to the omnisexuality hat he puts on in DW.

It would have been nice if he showed an iota of concern too. The Doctor was more concerned about the fate of the remainder of Jack's team than Jack himself. Long enough to giggle about Gwen's ancestry (which RTD said he'd not mention back in TW season 1, liar XD).

[meleth.livejournal.com]

Re: Donna. Seriously. Okay, so she can't handle the mighty Timebrain, I get that. But couldn't he just take the Timelore out of her head? Rather than doing a complete system wipe and removing everything she did for a year that proved that she was smarter, more compassionate, and overall better than she had ever thought? All that work, all that fantasticness, and all she gets is her mother being told to be a bit nicer to her? In addition to being a horrible ending for her, this is incompatible with the level of tech and ingenuity the Doctor manages to show the rest of the time. Clearly, the Doctor's competence is directly dependent on the need for clever plot points.

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes.

And yes.

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

As usual, your meta totally vocalises what was making me angry. This episode left me with such a sour feeling.

I can add nothing, you've said it all ;__;

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

yep
*is sad to agree*

[quirky-kittens.livejournal.com]

Yeah there was a lot of nasty tricks in this, I particularly didn't like the regeneration but on no I don't want to so I shan't, that's not how it's supposed to work, surely he never really wants to. What happened to Donna was so mean, she was so amazing in this episode and I'm really going to miss her as a companion, she was definitely my favourite. DoctorDonna was so funny. I hope we at least get to see her go on and do something fantastic with her life. I thought the Daleks should have been a bigger threat but I loved the mad little treacherous one (dalek khan?). I really really hope that Martha and Mickey don't end up in Torchwood coz they're just unbearable. To be honest I was hoping for a job for Andy in Torchwood.

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

"Ummm... Rose crossed a bunch of parallel worlds just to find the Doctor?? "

Well, yeah. Who else are you gonna call when the stars start disappearing? The Doctor is pretty much Superman; he's the guy you call when the Universe is ending, and that has nothing to do with Rose's feelings.

[tencrush]

No. She built a machine. To cross dimensions. To find the Doctor. She did that way before the stars started disappearing, she said so.

[qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com]

i did rather wonder why no one else saw the connection there. okay rose, you start crossing the dimensions - not exactly a wise move in the best of circumstances - and all of a sudden, the stars start going out. it never even crossed your mind that the two might be related?

[ghira.livejournal.com]

well, one thing 10.5 is useful for is to get rid of the spare
hand.

[encyclops.livejournal.com]

You said it. The regeneration angle was particularly cheap, but I forgave it a little when it eventually became a key part of the story.

[mslauren2930.livejournal.com]

I admit it, I cheated and watched the end of the episode first (on Youtube) so I could see what became of Donna. I honestly only really cared about the fate of her character. I really wish (as others have said) that she could've made the choice about her future rather than having it foisted on her. I'm very much hopeful that she'll show up again because I love her dearly. I love how she was a true companion to the Doctor, who loved him but wasn't in love with him and had a fulfilled life with him on the TARDIS. that's the reason I've always (in the past) been leery of the show, because I really didn't want to watch a show with a guy traveling with a woman who spent her life pining for a guy who would never love her. I finally came to the show totally with Donna and now she's gone... this is not to say that I won't be sticking around, but she set the bar really high for me. I can't imagine someone will be able to fill those shoes in a way that will make me happy.

as for Mickey... someone else posted that they're looking forward to him and Ianto together. I have to agree. I adore Mickey, so I'm not as annoyed at his addition to Torchwood. but that's just me. maybe also a little part of my liking Mickey so much now is the shipping of him with Jackie and their big guns. :)

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

My brother's just helpfully pointed something out, which might just stop Martha from joining Torchwood as anything other than a guest character -

BBC policy regarding the 9pm watershed
Television Standards
The fact that Martha has appeared on a 'Cyberman helmet' down the children's isle at his local Tesco.

Because Jack was only ever a guest character on Doctor Who - as were Gwen and Ianto - the same rules don't apply. He mentioned this the other day when he heard that Freema had appeared on 'Blue Peter' to advertise Journey's End. As a guest character only in Torchwood, she wouldn't be promoted as heavily as the main cast.

[tencrush]

Yeah, my kid just got a load of Who toys and she's on a lot of the merchandise aimed at 6 year olds, they might not be able to get away with putting her in such an adult show full time. It'd be like them trying to show a Tracy Beaker, the college years, starring the same girl, but at 9 and with sex.

[off_coloratura]

Unless the other rumor is also true, that they'll be taking the adult sexiness out of TW to better adapt to its new castmembers. In which case, ACK. Why watch at all?

[qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com]

donna's mind-rape at the end was almost unforgivable. but the safeguard against her ever remembering the doctor and who she was/is is so dodgy that it'd be very easy to handwave it if she ever wants to come back, and that's where i'm pinning my hopes.

also, i hate rose's guts, and i was still outraged at what rtd did to her. so we were right all along, her life really IS meaningless without her man...and ffs, rose is supposed to be one of his favorite characters! if that's how rtd treats his special favorites? MOFF TIEM NAO.

[meleth.livejournal.com]

See, because true love is about being with David Tennant the man you want no matter what, even if he's just a clone, even if you don't ever move on with your life, and even if you have to almost destroy reality to get him. Because self-actualization is for people who can't manage to find love and wholeness in another person. But hey, she gets to snog David Tennant awkwardly on a beach (and he had a better kiss with Reinette the first time they saw each other since she was EIGHT, ffs), and that's what counts< right?

[bbluejenn117.livejournal.com]

Before you get too depressed, although I fear I might be too late....remember the awesomeness of Tosh beyond the grave. She saved their asses again with her awesome genius, how Mickey (because I'm assuming Martha would be a replacement for Owen) could ever replace her I don't know

My idea for martha and mickey highjinks is for Gwen to play a good joke on them; direct them to the hothouse during nekid hide and seek time *nods head* yup yup.

I actually thought Donna's ending was good, not a happy ending cop out, although yes, very very sad and depressing, but does leave the potential for her to come back at some point which is good. She's my favorite companion by far of the 'New Who'

Completely agree with you about Rose, I spent the greater part of my reviews of this two parter ranting about her ;P

[descrime.livejournal.com]

Word. You left T3 knowing that Daleks were attacking and you aren't even slightly concerned if they lived or not? What if they were still stuck in the time bubble and the air was running out and they needed Jack to come undo it with his wristwatch? Wouldn't he feel like a dick when he finally moseyed back to the home-front.

Martha is such a badly written character. They're like, she needs to be perfect, but she can't be in love with the Doctor and how do you write a female character who doesn't mindless adore the male lead? By making her have absolutely no personality so that you can't tell if it's a clone or real Martha!

I'm planning to write more about Rose later, but I did write down my thoughts on the episode here:
http://descrime.livejournal.com/46331.html

Mostly, it's all the logical inconsistencies of the story which make everyone look like idiots or jerks. And my theory that the reason the Doctor made a clone was really a clever plan on his part to make sure Rose went back to her parallel universe and stayed there.

[cirrocumulus.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit opposite to you about the Martha/Mickey thing; I could deal with Martha being on the team, if I had to, but I absolutely HATE Mickey. I don't know why but something about him just bores me to death and annoys the hell out of me and I just really, really do NOT want him in TW. Buhh. Plus I was interested in getting some actually NEW characters in the show for a change.

So yeah, that finale kind of sucked overall. And the whole Rose/Faux!Doctor thing made me roll my eyes.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. I don't mind Martha; I don't want Mickey. But I can see why they want pre-existing characters for TW S3, so they don't have to waste time on character development. Pretty disappointed to see Martha and Mickey walking off with Jack wherever they were supposed to be (not Cardiff, right?); clearly they're both going to be on TW S3. Neither gives off any sexual-type vibe that might make things interesting in the Hub. I was looking forward to new characters, so..bleh. Didn't particularly like the finale overall, although liked Doctor/Donna and was amused by the 2 Doctors while it lasted. I sure hope they never bring back the Daleks.

[tigress35.livejournal.com]

SHIT. That's not cliffhanger resolution, Russell, that's just fucking copping out of a plot point you've blatantly inserted just to keep people watching and nothing more.

*sigh* Yes.

Plus, what you were really doing there was telling us "These two have served their purpose for now, let's put them in stasis because I'm too lazy to work out what else to do with them."

YES. I'd much rather Gwen and Ianto not been included at all, they really were there only to serve the purpose of, "Look how many guest stars we can get into this episode and blow our budget!"

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

To be fair, they did get more screentime in The Stolen Earth than most people were expecting. And considering that RTD still needs to keep Torchwood and Doctor Who fairly seperate - note that Jack didn't blatantly ask Martha and Mickey to join Torchwood because of the kiddies - Gwen and Ianto did very well.

Still don't think Martha will be perminant. Unlike Jack, Gwen and Ianto, she's promoted as a children's character who's face appears on cybermen helmets. Guest character only.

Trying to be optimistic

[(Anonymous)]

I am having faith at the moment in the fact that GDL is so positive about the next series. (As is EM, but Gwen drives me so crazy I don't care) I agree about Martha, her shocking line delivery is painful and makes me cringe. However there are other comments in the reaction thread about how much fans love her and think she is great in TW. (I don't quite get how they can overlook the awful acting, maybe if you are used to a lot of soaps or something, but the others are so much better it is very obvious)

Apart from the big fears about TW, I agree with everything you have said about Saturday's ep.

I do think the week before was good, and it was actually more an aknowledgement of Jack/Ianto, and even a little bit of insight into them, than I think anyone expected.

[halfspokenwords.livejournal.com]

To be honest, this finale ruined Rose for me. I liked her in S1, got tired of her in S2, and was glad to have a new companion when she left. But still, I probably would have been happy to see her again if it weren't for the hagiography that went on during S3. But now...

I mean, come on. We were told that crossing the universes was dangerous. Very dangerous. Tearing reality apart dangerous. When Torchwood One opened a rift between universes, they were condemned for it. Yvonne Hartman was an evil imperialist dictator, almost everyone died, etc etc. But when Rose does it, it's cute, right?

It just paints her as stupid and immature. She couldn't have spent the last two years on Pete's World, you know, growing up? Maybe meeting a nice boy her age, becoming focused on her career (that's something they did right with Martha, imo-- she left the Doctor and went hardcore UNIT)... Or, ooh, ooh, how about learning to appreciate Mickey?! But no, of course not!

... also Rose/10.5 is just icky, for so many reasons. I like to forget that the Bad Wolf Bay scenes happened, personally. It reads like bad fanfic, and isn't a happy ending at all-- in fact, Rose aside, I bet 10.5. will be miserable. (Remember in The Sonataran Strategem, when the Sontarans take the TARDIS and the Doctor is all ":O I'm stuck here!!! Like a... human." Yeah, like that.)

But, on the bright (?) side, Rose gets a genocidal Doctor is who half Donna. HA!

... and oh, speaking of Donna, HOW AWFUL WAS HER ENDING? I mean, it was beautiful and tragic and she is so, so, so brilliant, but...

I see Rose as a prime example of what a companion shouldn't be. I see no evidence that she's changed for the better, especially not after this episode. She didn't use her time with the Doctor as a prelude to a brilliant life; she used it as a yardstick by which to measure everything else unsuitable. (This also happened to Sarah Jane and Jack, but at least they have their own shows. And also Jack had his immortality to get sorted.)

Donna, on the other hand. Donna is brilliant. Donna has changed so incredibly much this season. I think she's changed more than any other NuWHo companion (Mickey and Martha also have. Mickey remains AWESOME is my mind, but Martha was shortchanged by being written inconsistently.) RTD finally did something right with a companion... and then completely undid it ALL in a few seconds. So while it's painful and tragic and all that, it's also completely sadistic and unfair. Instead of "travelling with the Doctor makes you better," I'm getting the message that travelling with the Doctor ruins your life.

I'm a little torn, though, because on the other hand, I'm a bit annoyed at the way Donna's 'real' life has been characterized. When in Doctor Who mythology has being an ordinary human been bad? Quite the opposite, really; we're told that ordinary humans are spectacular. Rose, Martha, Donna. Gwen, too. So while I understand that Donna's trip on the TARDIS changed her for the better, and I know I'm supposed to understand that before it she was shallow and without confidence... I feel like it just shouldn't be 'tragic' for her to go back to being ordinary, even though I understand that it is.

...sorry, I rambled on a bit.

Depressed

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

The DW finale just left me depressed for a lot of reasons. First, I just can't reconcile myself to what was done to Donna. I may never forgive Ten for it.

I also don't like Rose's ending. She gets a copy of Ten? And she's supposed to ride off into the sunset content with a copy of the man she loves? WTF??? It's disgusting, frankly.

I've decided that I absolutely can't stand Martha. I suspect she's only on board for the transitional 'miniseries' season but I'm not sure I'll be able to stand her. She's just a big Mary Sue IMHO.

Jack acted like an absolute jerk about the TW team but I put that down to sloppy writing. Ianto and Gwen had served their purpose.

I am almost reconciled to the fact that I will never get what I want from Janto. The relationship appears to exist only as justification for Ianto getting over Lisa and to be played for laughs and it isn't going to develop in any substantive way. They are friends with benefits and that's it. So much of my reason for watching TW evaporates unless they break them up and give Ianto a storyline but I'm not particularly optimistic about that as I suspect Captain John and the newbies will eat up what little time there is in the next series.

I came into TW2 with such high hopes but feel as if they are draining away little by little...

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

I suspect Captain John and the newbies will eat up what little time there is in the next series.

In my darker moments I suspect this will be the case.

Please, please, please let Ianto get the storyline and screen time he so richly deserves. Gareth has worked his ass off to make something great out of a minor role. Please, O Writers, give him something to really sink his teeth into.

Ain't too proud to beg.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

From your lips to TPTB's ears...it just seems to me that they went from no plan for Ianto to 'hey, he's a fan favorite so we'll make him sort-of Jack's boyfriend and use him for comic relief'. It reminds me a lot of Spike on BtVS. There was no plan for him in S4 -- just 'hey JM is a great actor and a fan favorite so let's make him the wacky neutered vampire next door neighbor.'

Maybe they'll come up with a plan, but I doubt it will happen in the mini-series.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

JB has stated several times in recent interviews that Jack, Gwen and Ianto are now "the core threesome" on Torchwood from the radio play onwards and that he's looking forward to seeing where the writers take that core threesome in the future. This could be a positive thing, as JB will know more than any other Torchwood actor about what the future possibly holds. And now that Gareth is known to 8-10 million Doctor Who viewers, if S3 gets unknown actors who are looking for their first big break, Gareth may well get priority for a chance.

Noel's left a message to his fans on his official website, which makes it sound like Mickey's NOT joining the team for series 3 and beyond. It's basically a thank you note to both the fans for years of support and to RTD for bringing WHO back. He finishes with "let's hope all we move on to bigger and better things" If Noel's not joining Torchwood, then Freema's future on the show is also in doubt.

[(Anonymous)]

I really think he is unlikely to with his recent success as a director. I think he is more likely to pursue writing and directing. Of course a guest appearance may happen. To be honest I don't mind if he does, I mind more about Martha and her dreadful acting. He is OK and I can see potential snark between him and Ianto.

[tencrush]

SHE IS SUCH AN AWFUL ACTRESS. Why is no-one allowed to just come out and say this? She's AWFUL.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

I want to know why there wasn't a twenty second scene in Journey's End where Jack says to Martha and Mickey "by the way, there's some vaccancies going at Torchwood, wanna join?" I can only think that RTD doesn't want the kiddies knowing but having M&M in the first place would bring more kiddies over.

The 2 things clash.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, they must realise. All her rhythms are wrong, and it is so basically wrong that the other actors and the directors have to notice. All my friends who watch have commented on it, and I've noticed it is a fairly common opinion on other forums as well. She does have her fans, and I don't get how they can't notice. Sometimes it is so bad I just cringe. That scene where Ianto gives her the contact lenses was classic, he is just so good, and she really messed it up. The worst was season 3 of DW, especially the finale, which was painful. I expect it's why they dumped her, but for some reason keep using her, I wondered about contracts.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

JB has stated several times in recent interviews that Jack, Gwen and Ianto are now "the core threesome" on Torchwood from the radio play onwards

Really? YAY! Because I'm so interested in seeing the three of them deal with the remains of the day. They've been through a shitload of agony together in a very short time.