PIE ASIDE...

[tencrush]

Some thoughts and A THEORY on The Stolen Earth, Torchwoodwise.

• Jack's a bit of a dick again, isn't he? We know his transporter thingy works on more than one person, and he knew that Torchwood were next on the Dalek's shit list, so why on earth he has to do this selfish "I'm with the Doctor" thing is beyond me. Way to leave your team in peril, immortal guy. (ETA: YES, I KNOW Gwen and Ianto didn't tell him, I also know he's not an idiot, he KNOWS that they are coming, rather soonish, and he's buggering off and taking the only effective gun, so I stand by my assertion: WAY TO GO, DUDE. And I'm focussing specifically on TW in this post, but, yes, the same goes for Sarah Jane leaving Luke. Russell thinks the Doctor's RLY great, which is fine, but the Doctor>Everyone else thing is something he chooses to express in kind of weird ways sometimes, ways that tend to reflect badly on the people involved, all the way back to Rose not wanting to work in a shop.)


• This dashing superhero thing that Jack does in Who doesn't work so well for me when the rest of the team are involved. Especially with regards to Jack/Ianto, I feel it very much shoehorns Ianto into the role of the longsuffering wife and it doesn't sit quite right with me.


• THE THEORY: Dalek Caan's "Everlasting death for the most faithful companion." Surely this means Jack, not Donna. Now, before you go saying that Jack could hardly be classed as "the most faithful companion", to be fair to him, he did search for the Doctor and bide his time for a century, and comes running every time the man so much as whistles at him. He's not exactly the most unfaithful companion, either. And "everlasting death", it's a bit much, isn't it? I mean, death is death, unless it's not, in which case you'd need to quantify it a bit more with the quantifier "everlasting". I don't think Jack'll die, but I think he will cease being immortal. He gets everlasting death. Not necessarily right now, but that's what he gets, when he dies, it'll be everlasting. The reason I think this is so obviously true, aside from the wording, is I really think they've gone as far as they can go with Jack's immortality schtick. There aren't really that many more stories to tell about a guy who can't die. The getting shot/stabbed/thrown off buildings and standing up again thing's been done, the using the immortality as a punishment, like Gray did, has been done, and really what more is there to do? Jack's going to become unimmortal, mark my words. (And yes, obviously, this classes the Face of Boe stuff as rubbish, but I think the Face of Boe stuff IS rubbish, so it doesn't really bother me.)

Comments

[morebliss.livejournal.com]

The more than one person thing only worked when the doctor used his screwdriver at the same time.

[tencrush]

Did it? I can't watch tSoD/LotTL again, because I hate them with a passion. I'll take your word for it. I still think Jack's pretty quick on the buggering off in favour of being with the Doctor thing, and I don't really like it as a character trait.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I reckon it's the TARDIS.

(Don't ask me how the heck that's going to work.)

[tencrush]

MIGHT YOU JUST ADD WHAT???

[furius.livejournal.com]

I thought the "most faithful companion" would have to be the TARDIS (then the bit on Jack's desk will come in handy..), but your theory makes much more sense, though does that mean there's yet another hyper-mythical ending? Ack.

[(Anonymous)]

I think he means himself and not one of the Doctors companions

[fatchickengirl.livejournal.com]

Could be! (and i think the face of Boe' is Owen as he can't heal...).

Tho Donna may not be Donna if the rumors about the ring etc are true if she realises who she is (amy be) then that is the everlasting death of Donna Noble who is certainly faithful.

[kalliopeia.livejournal.com]

I do agree with those who say Jack doesn't realize quite the level of danger Gwen and Ianto are in. It totally fits character that they wouldn't tell him, because they would view Jack going off to find the Doctor and do the overall greater good is more important. You can totally see that in Ianto's face, IMO.

Also, I hope that you're right about Jack. It would put an end to the Face of Boe nonsense, which I hated if only because I can't stand to think of Jack spending eternity losing everything and everyone he cares about over and over, and because I neither understand nor accept the notion that he becomes a giant head in a jar.

[dancy-dreamer.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Jack believed his team would be safer in an underground base than chasing the damn pepperpots around Cardiff London.

[dick-grayson.livejournal.com]

I was more perturbed by Sarah Jane leaving her teenaged "son" behind, so I took the Jack-off-on-his-own-adventure-again! thing to be a bit of a trope (and a Russell T. Davies special at that). It gets the former companions in one place and the non-companions elsewhere (although I'm not sure where that elsewhere is just yet). As for that whole "most faithful" busines, I honestly have no idea, but I imagine I'm not going to like it, however it ends up. Rusty and Co. usually try to be a bit too clever for my tastes in these finale episodes. Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts, and thought I'd comment for once!

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

To be fair though, Luke was probably as safe there as he was going to be anywhere else. The Daleks weren't targeting Sarah-Jane's house, so bringing Luke out into the open with her was probably a much less safe option than leaving him alone with a supercomputer to watch over him. And lets face it, nowhere on Earth could be deemed 'safe' at that time.

[tanaiel.livejournal.com]

It could be, even though I'm not sure they have the guts to do that. And the "everlasting" bit could just be an exaggeration, meaning that yes, somebody will indeed stay dead.

And btw, even if Jack didn't hear the bit about the Daleks coming, he totally knew it. I mean come one, they first erased UNIT, so it's logical they would target them next. And the massive phone call to the Doc came from their base, you can't tell me he didn't think they could trace that. So, yeah, he totally knew.

[tencrush]

I tend to agree on him knowing, yeah. Gwen and Ianto kept the details of the imminent threat from him, but that doesn't mean he's too stupid to realise TW3 would be a prime target.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

a) i don't think jack knew the daleks were coming, so he figured they'd be safer in the hub and also needed to... idk deal with cardiff type stuff
b) omg non-immortal jack i would LOVE - please be right

[foxtrot-pasta.livejournal.com]

I would hate non-immortal Jack only because I think he'd survive all of ten minutes after that. With all the dying he's been doing it's obvious he has become a bit sloppy about the whole life thing, and while he may remember conciously that he's not immortal anymore (it would be a hard thing to forget), I don't think that would change his subconcious reaction of "OH HAI SOMEONE NEEDS TO DIE FOR THIS PLAN TO WORK, LET ME DO IT". The entire third series, if not more, would have to focus on that for the whole thing to make any sort of sense.

[tencrush]

Maybe he dies. Given the changes in TW as a whole, it wouldn't surprise me if we'd been led on and JB isn't in fact in Series 3, and Series 3 will, in fact, be Russell's big gay Rose Tyler: Earth Defender show after all.

[mrhapptits.livejournal.com]

Didn't John use his wrist strap to transport both him and Jack to the past in Exit Wounds? It should logically work for space over time.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

I think John made use of the rift in that regard. Also, assuming John has a vortex manipulator, he can travel in time. Jack's is burned out and has disabled by the Doctor anyway. He's lucky to have use of it as a teleport.

[haldane.livejournal.com]

I wrote this (http://community.livejournal.com/omni_fiction/32588.html#cutid1) today, as my take on the whole thing. I think that Jack could have taken Ianto & Gwen with him, because we know the manipulators take more than one person since John used his to kidnap Jack back to 27AD. He was just too high over being with the Doctor again to bother about plain ol' humans.

Also Jack could hardly *not* know that the Torchwood Hub was on the Daleks 'next' list for clobbering, since Harriet Jones told him she was turning control of the subwave over to them.

[tencrush]

Very nice, and pretty accurate, I think. Like I said it's this Doctor>Everyone approach of Russell's that I just dislike, because it makes people do things that are OOC and arseholeish. Ditto Sarah Jane, totally out-of-character, she would never have left Luke behind, no matter what danger she thought she would be facing, I really don't believe that she'd do it.

[ericadawn16.livejournal.com]

You know I've been hearing this complaint since Saturday and I thought it was legitimate but I just realized something...his vortex manipulator works...

Ok, hear me out.

He promised that he'd come back for them or to them, didn't he?

So, first, he goes to the Doctor since the Doctor is usually able to fix things, but if he can't, then there's plan B...

He goes back to Ianto and Gwen right after the moment he left them since his vortex manipulator can take him anytime, anywhere and seems a bit more precise now than it did when he ended up in the 19th century.

[tencrush]

If the thing is working that well, you'd think he'd be reasonably safe from the Daleks, they're not exactly speedy, executionwise, they seem to always have to say "exterminate" three times before they shoot. In which case he might have had the decency to leave Gwen and Ianto with the big gun that actually works on Daleks.

[rowanswhimsy.livejournal.com]

I'm so bad with Who lore...I'm going with them being tricksy on the most loyal companion and giving the TARDIS everlasting death. Then would Jack be able to save the TARDIS with his immortality? Or perhaps with that bit on his desk?

I didn't much like the jealous wifey vibe they gave to Ianto in this ep but did like the look on his face when Jack was leaving. Brave lad. Yet again there's really no special moment for them, though, is there? At least not one particularly differentiated from Gwen's.

Pie levels were shocking.

[tencrush]

SHOCKING!!! I'm glad I mentally prepared myself. And others.

[clipsie.livejournal.com]

On the vortex manipulator thing, I'm sure without the Doctor or rift it can only take one person. If I remember correctly from TEC/TDD, Jack left through that and could not take them with him.

Or I'm crazy. If I had the time to check right now, I would.

[astuta.livejournal.com]

The problem with your Jack theory is that RTD has said that since Steven Moffat created Jack, Mr Moffat will be in charge of Jack's fate.

[tencrush]

I don't think that rules out Russell de-immortalising him. Moffat's had quite a big finger in this season's pie anyway, and it could well have been discussed with him, Moffat made RTD bring Jenny back from the dead, after all.

[woodencoyote.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised that Gwen and Ianto didn't lock down the Hub, as they've down in previous instances. Jack might have been expecting them to if they found themselves in danger.

[esporamor.livejournal.com]

Maybe that was their plan but they didn't have time, the Daleks showed up the second after Jack left.

[ionlylurkhere.livejournal.com]

I am mostly persuaded by the whole "why say everlasting if it's not Jack" thing, but death in sci-fi is so unpermanent generally that I think Rusty might have felt the need to specify that whoever was dying really was going to be properly dead times a million no returns.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Jack's going to become unimmortal, mark my words.'
I really hope you're right. It seems like they gone as far as they can with Jack being immortal. I don't think there are any more stories left to tell with that plot device- but than it started to get old to me after the first series. Considering Jack has as much sense as a suicidal lemming he'll probably last all of ten minutes.

'...but I think the Face of Boe stuff IS rubbish, so it doesn't really bother me.)'
Didn't RTD say that Boe was just a joke to piss off the fandom people?

[esporamor.livejournal.com]

I really would be happy if Jack loses his inmortality, mostly because, plot aside and all that, the idea that Jack is inmortal is terribly sad. Especially if he is the Face of Boe and ends up like it did, that ended up most of its/his last year alone.
Also because Jack inmortal or not is human and he cannot posibly live forever and not lose his mind, hence I do think that the Face of Boe theory is rubbish as well because the Face is more reasonable than most people, though well OTOH the only reason he could be it's because The Face does know there is another Time Lord and Jack knew as well. But Jack has lived now 200 years or so and you can see he is broken in some parts, and to make him live forever it's a horrible idea considering how much more loses and pain he is going to go through.
I really really hope he loses his inmortality, as long as he does not get killed anytime soon.

As for the rest, I don't think he knew the Daleks were coming, and I'm sure he is going to feel like crap when he finds out. I believe Martha will see the Daleks arriving to TW, she knows there's nothing she can do if she shows up at The Hub, she will teleport to the Tardis, see Jack there, she'll think the rest of team is with him and when she sees that's not the case, she'll freak out and tell Jack about the Daleks in the Hub, and hen we'll see Jack losing ten shades of pink from his face and run back to the Hub, hopefully to see his team alive and well.

[off_coloratura]

This bothered me too, that Jack ran off with the only decent gun and left them to die. Sloppy writing, to bring all the companions together around the Doctor by making them leave the ones they cared about.

I'm going to concur that the transporter was only good for one, and that he planned on returning with the Doctor to get them/help them. Watching it again, it's unclear whether he knows the Daleks are on their way to Torchwood, but judging from Gwen's reaction to the Daleks' arrival, I don't think any of them expected them there so soon.

And of COURSE the Dalek is talking about Jack. That makes perfect sense.

[quirky-kittens.livejournal.com]

I didn't like Jack leaving but I don't know if he knew that the Daleks were coming to Cardiff or if he just thought about the Doctor and it doesn't occur to him that other people might need saving too. I don't like that theory either though. The episode was really good all the same but that bit didn't sit right with me.

[cloverdilly.livejournal.com]

I said the same exact thing! He left them three seconds before the Daleks popped up with the one good gun at their disposal! At least Sarah Jane left Luke with Mr. Smith who could probably do some damage, and she looked pained to leave him. And I still don't see why Gwen and Ianto couldn't have run and hidden somewhere in the Hub rather than shoot useless bullets at them that Ianto quite clearly knows won't even slow it down. Or you know, escaped. After all, Ianto knows the Hub better than anyone, and Daleks are pretty slow, even when they're flying. (I guess to make them more stupidly heroic?) As for Jack being the only one that can be transport with the vortex manipulator, I'm thinking... no. I'm almost certain that in TEC/TDD, he was being teleported via some technology on that ship of his.

Do you think the Shadow Proclamation and the whole Medusa Cascade being a second ahead thing will come back into the story?

[badpossum.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen this episode yet, it will still be a couple of weeks before they show it here. So I was wondering where Sarah Jane left K9? Did she bring him along? The throught just crossed my mind that it could be him that is destroyed. K9 being a 'dog' and a dog being considered one's "faithful companion" by some. Being blasted to bits is a rather everlasting death. But I think I'm just reaching for possiblities that aren't right.

[descrime.livejournal.com]

K9 is currently stuck in a black hole in a bank vault in Sarah Jane's attic, so he won't be showing up.