tencrush: (ianto pie)
[personal profile] tencrush
Gareth!Wank hooray! Bless him, some wank ensued onna OG (yeah, doctorwhoforum, whatever) about Gareth at Orgee. If you don't know, he flashed his todger at Disgracelands and had his bare arse whipped by fangirls. All perfectly acceptable behaviour in my book, but then my book is kept on a special shelf, I must admit.

Now the wank was about a few things, one of which was inappropriate fan behaviour. Personally, I don't think any one fan has the right to accuse any other of inappropriate behaviour unless those involved are in the same room as each other, so I think the point is pretty moot. And, it was obviously THAT kind of gig, so, you know, whatever. I agree with the fangirl around whom the controversy arose (the one brandishing the whip) in as much as I think asking someone if they're up for a whipping, when it's obviouly THAT kind of party is probably FAR MORE APPROPRIATE behaviour than following the poor boy around every time he goes outside for a fag. Especially if you don't smoke, you know what I'm saying?

The other point being made, though, was one of inappropriate celebrity behaviour, and that, I think, is a slightly more tricky one. Is it inappropriate for Gareth to behave in this way? Well, let's start off considering the fact that Gareth spends his professional time hanging out with the likes of John Barrowman, a man whose inappropriate and sometimes downright sleazy behaviour is all to often excused by his somewhat frightening and rabid fanbase because he's A)gay and B)an actor. You can say what you like about Barrowman, but he's certainly not the best role model in that respect. Just sayin', flame away.

The thing about Gareth, though, is that he exhibits this sleazy drunken side of his personality ONLY at the appropriate time, or at what he FEELS is the appropriate time. Yeah, sure, he's got a foul mouth at conventions as well, but he's a 27-year-old guy, I don't know any 27-year-olds who DON'T have a foul mouth, to be perfectly honest with you. Some say he's treading a fine line and should watch himself, though, and the reason some people feel that way is pretty simple, and it's precisely THE SAME REASON, I reckon, that Gareth acts the way he does at his gigs. You see, Gareth has become surprisingly successful at his chosen career of acting, let's just call it Career A, but Career A has also brought him a certain contingent of very enthusiastic fans (to come back to my Blur analogy, yeah, it's all Britpop with me, get used to it, Gareth has attracted a metaphorical fan contingent of Smash Hits reading 12-year-olds alongside the music loving indie kids). Now that fanbase is a great thing for him, and he's obviously more than happy to indulge them, but, on the other hand, Gareth also likes to dabble in his sideline musical career, let's just call that Career B. And the problem he has with Career B, is that the audience for Career B is now almost entirely made up of fans he has acquired with Career A. Now that's not a HUGE problem, but for someone like Gareth, who dabbles in Career B with a bunch of mates from his Newport posse, the possibility of losing any credibility he had with Career B is actually a very real one if nobody takes Career B seriously on its own merits. And with that screaming Career A contingent always present in Career B, I think Gareth probably feels there is an acute danger of losing credibility WITH HIS PEERS because of it. Which brings me back to my Blur analogy, because I think a very large part of the way Gareth behaves when it comes to Career B comes forth from either a conscious or subconsious desire to scare off the undesirable contingent from Career A. Not that he finds a part of his fanbase to be undesirable, certainly not when it comes to Career A, but he probably does feel there's a certain element of squeeing fangirls that Career B could and probably should do without (and I'm not talking about the sort of fangirl that the wank was about, I'm talking about the ones who follow him around on his fag breaks). Graham Coxon did pretty much the same thing when Blur went poptastic by being a hugely unpleasant drunk in the most public situations he could manage to engineer, and he successfully managed to scare off the teenybopper contingent of Blur fans to the extent that they started idolising Damon and pretty much Damon only (Alex James had by this time also, probably subconsiously, managed to achieve the same thing by coming across as hugely sexually threatening, even to twelve-year-olds). So much for Blur, don't worry, I'm done.

So what am I getting at? Well, like someone onna OG said, he's treading a fine line PRECISELY BECAUSE the audience boundaries are, at the moment, so blurred between his two chosen Careers. The poster felt he was in danger of putting off fans of Career A by his behaviour in B, and that's a very real possibility, but I think it's pretty unlikely that he will tone his behaviour down until those two audiences start to diverge into two distinct entities. If he loses some fans in Career A along the way, I think that's a risk he's willing to take. He's well aware that he's got a huge following ALL OVER THE WORLD and the actual percentage of people who will be put off by his off-putting behaviour IN PERSON, IN CARDIFF is actually pretty small, and he knows it. So, do I think Gareth behaves acceptably? Yeah, for a guy who's in a band who plays gigs with a bunch of other bands, all of whom are his mates and all of whom drink and toke and fuck around and do all the rest of it, sure, it's perfectly acceptable behaviour. Is it going to put some fans off him? Sure, a few, but he can afford to lose them. Should he give a flying fuck? No, in the same way that he shouldn't give a flying fuck if I say on the internets that I think he eats too many pies. He's young, he's got his whole life ahead of him, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Will it stop me saying he eats too many pies? No way, Jose.

(Quick disclaimer, though, I say Gareth eats too many pies a lot, and I DO mean it, but I say it only because I think he doesn't have anyone else saying it at the moment, and I know he reads the internet and if he catches a pie reference, then maybe he'll notice that he comes off quite chubby on camera and he should look into why that is the case, because he is not actually chubby in real life. I'd still happily fuck him until he breaks, but I think SOMEONE needs to be telling the boy a few truths and I think NOBODY is, because that SOMEBODY is probably the same SOMEBODY who should be updating his CV and that certainly ain't happening at any great speed. I LOVE GARETH. TRUFAX, SRSLY.)

Anyway, the wank's over now, it was fun while it lasted, and only went to prove that there's wank everywhere. And Gareth? You caused wank. You have officially MADE IT, dude. Congrats. Have a beer on me.

Date: 2008-05-06 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mellacita.livejournal.com
And Gareth? You caused wank. You have officially MADE IT, dude. Congrats.

True dat.

Though I imagine he has caused his share of private wan...sorry, that never gets old.

Date: 2008-05-06 02:56 pm (UTC)
ext_41564: (tw - shagging the boss)
From: [identity profile] shighola.livejournal.com
hear, hear! well said.
i especially agree about the pies. seriously, why so bloated friend?

Date: 2008-05-06 03:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bandgeek01.livejournal.com
Did I miss something somewhere?

But I agree with you in all aspects of what you said.

Nicole

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Date: 2008-05-06 03:24 pm (UTC)
off_coloratura: (Ianto fetish)
From: [personal profile] off_coloratura
I don't believe Gareth's audiences will ever really diverge that much, just as I'm not really sure James Master's band will ever really have many followers who haven't seen him on Buffy.

That said, because he's on Torchwood, which is an "adult" show, I don't have any problem with him acting that way. If/when he ever appeared on Who, there might be more of a problem separating the two careers.

In other thoughts, Ok, NOW can we have some size reports, please? PLEASE? SOMEONE must have seen! TELL, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

And in conclusion, can I just say: Flashing your cock and getting your bare ass whipped, for real, in front of witnesses? Oh Gareth, I'm going to have sweet dreams tonight...

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Date: 2008-05-06 03:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nightspring.livejournal.com
WORD on the wank.

As for that CV, I assume Gareth is smart enough to know it hasn't been updated, and if he isn't doing something about it, well, I figure he must have his reasons.

Date: 2008-05-06 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cionaudha.livejournal.com
Could he at least have them fix the typo?

*begs a little*

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Date: 2008-05-06 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naomi-jw.livejournal.com
Not to be wanky, but was I the only one who kinda thought the "I love Gareth unconditionally and here's what he should do and how fans should behave and y'all are stalkers" poster was the only one who actually did come across as stalkerish?

I mean, I'm a TV actress, and from my experiences (and a lot of actors and agents/security feel the same way) it's generally the 'fan police' types who want to show they're the bestest fan ever that raise a red flag, not the ones who get rowdy at events.

Date: 2008-05-07 01:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinnthered.livejournal.com
Not to be wanky, but was I the only one who kinda thought the "I love Gareth unconditionally and here's what he should do and how fans should behave and y'all are stalkers" poster was the only one who actually did come across as stalkerish?

BINGO!

True. Every time. Always be wary of anyone who criticizes the critic. It usually means they can't believe "their boy" (*shudder*) can do no wrong.

The "stalkery" ones are a pain in the butt, and are missing the self-awareness gene, but at least you can spot those a mile away.

Date: 2008-05-06 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
I love your fanalysises :D He really has made it. Good point about John Barrowman. Considering how well that behavior has worked for John it's not surprising that Gareth acts the way he does.

Date: 2008-05-06 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cionaudha.livejournal.com
FAR MORE APPROPRIATE behaviour than following the poor boy around

Yeah, see that behavior creeps me right the fuck out. STALKING.

If --at an event called ORGEE, fer fuck's sake-- something consensually erotic happens, then I figure I got my money's worth.

In total agreement with you on all points.

How can we make this come up first on a Google search of his name?

GARETH DAVID-LLOYD! CV! HEADSHOT! UPDATE! PLEASE! THANK YOU!

I yell because I care.

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Date: 2008-05-06 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com
Ooh, how very entertaining. I like your Career A versus Career B analysis muchly. Having been at that Point gig with James Marsters, you could see it writ so large it was enormously uncomfortable: Marsters up there singing his crappy little songs and playing his crappy guitar, obviously desperately keen to be taken seriously, to have people yelling out song lyrics not 'get your shirt off', all while knowing bloody well that the only reason he's on the stage is Spike. And there's Gareth just at the beginning of all that, but basically in the same boat. Do you bite the hand that feeds? Maybe you do, just a little.

I like the pie-chin. It speaks of a willingness to sin. :)

Date: 2008-05-07 04:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morebliss.livejournal.com
I like the pie-chin. It speaks of a willingness to sin. :)

I approve muchly of this comment!

Date: 2008-05-06 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tya-rc.livejournal.com
Just a thing, as I was the wanky fangirl - the only reason I spoke in the first place is that I've read reports of people saying that Gareth has been increasingly uncomfortable as the evening went on, and that he was clearly embarrassed at the some of his fans' behaviour.

Now maybe I have been reading things wrong and he was just embarrassed at the Career A contingent (and I actually don't think their attitude is worth any sympathy, either), but maybe, just maybe there's also the possibility that he's unhappy with some people being obsessive about him? Maybe he doesn't enjoy being the subject of the unstoppable lust quite that much, uh? And maybe those reports saying that the oh-so-appropriate fangirl in question stalked him after the gig and that he wasn't happy about it hold some truth? Granted, we weren't there, we will never know. It just seemed really awkward that they were all cheering about the meat feeding without anybody even questioning if it was Gareth's choice or if the fans were pushing themselves on him. And I did just that - asked the question (first in a silly fit of frustration, then trying to be more calm), and wank started when people got personal.

As I said somewhere on the thread, if Gareth's fine with it, then for fuck sake, let him have his wild fun. It's not one I'd enjoy, but to each their taste. However, it's a bit unclear, at the moment, if he enjoys pushy drunk fangirls stalking him as he tries to get a cab with his gf. And, again, it wasn't one of the Career A contingent, it was the one who was having so much fun playing with his arse.

ETA - And for fuck sake, I have never claimed to know what Gareth felt, either. I think there were a lot of assumptions made, and to assume that Gareth is totally okay with what went on is just as silly as assuming he is not okay with it, particularly considering the more objective reports.
Edited Date: 2008-05-06 04:41 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-05-06 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] astaria51.livejournal.com
To be honest, he probably doesn't enjoy pushy drunk fangirls; and I think [livejournal.com profile] tencrush (who I keep wanting to shorten to Ten, which is really weird) was trying to differentiate between stalkers and...ass-slappers.

Although he might have not enjoyed that either. Who knows? Maybe his gf just didn't enjoy it...?

But I can see your point. There seems to be a lot less boundary in this fandom than others; things like "fourth wall" and sexual innuendo and personal space issues. I feel like it's a problem wherein the actors push idly at the proverbial limits and the fans reply with "OMG SQUEE *BREAK DOWN THE FUCKING BARRICADE*" which is not, probably, what was intended or what is appropriate, but might be expected.

Coming from bandom where all the band members read fanfiction and fen seem to think it's appropriate to demand interaction ALL THE TIME, I forget that this level of fan-actor contact is a little shocking and horrifying to a lot of people. I'm totally unsurprised by stalkery fans. But then I see people from other fandoms, and they're like, "...GARETH READS FANFICTION WTF RED ALERT RED ALERT I THOUGHT WE HAD SECURITY AROUND HERE" and I'm like, "Oh, right, the rest of the world doesn't function like this."

Truth is, we can't know if Gareth was hugely embarrassed or totally creeped out or how he felt, so I guess maybe the upshot is we should just get over what happened and move on?

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From: [identity profile] astaria51.livejournal.com
My general opinion on this whole matter is: "Eh." Which seems to be your general opinion, too, only more ranty, lol! In any case I'm more than happy to have Gareth act totally inappropriate, because it's FUNNY and if John and James and everyone else can be giant pervs then Gareth can be as well.

I think you might be right about the Career A and Career B contingent, street cred and the like. But it's also possible that he's just, you know, Gareth. And really pretty young, and particularly fond of alcohol, and basically a frat boy with a high tolerance for gay antics and a possible love affair with James Marsters.

I also think it's quite likely that one of these days he'll realize this fame thing is not going to disappear tomorrow and he'll go, "Oh shit, I look ridiculous" and clean up his act.

But for now I don't think there's anything terrible with acting like a ridiculous teenager. And if girls want to smack his ass then that's their perogative; other people can choose to sit back and watch the show. I tend to think wank about what is and isn't appropriate behavior is tinged in just a bit of jealousy, however small. *shrug* I myself would probably be staring in shock and wtf-ery rather than partaking in the ass-smacking but then I know plenty of people who'd be all over that.

My take on pies (obv just a personal opinion): he's not as chubby in real life, but then, the camera adds ten pounds, and in my opinion, they're pretty sexy pounds ;) I think he looks like a cuddler. If Ianto's a bit bigger than Gareth there's nothing wrong with that; I think the stereotype that all men need to be emo boys or washboard-abbed hunks is as ridiculous as girls having to have a BMI of 16. (Now if only we could get some nice, curvy girls on set!)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'My take on pies (obv just a personal opinion): he's not as chubby in real life, but then, the camera adds ten pounds, and in my opinion, they're pretty sexy pounds ;) I think he looks like a cuddler.'
I'm glad someone finally said it, I like him with a few extra pounds. He looks a little like a big cuddly teddy bear.

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Date: 2008-05-06 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qthewetsprocket.livejournal.com
You see, Gareth has become surprisingly successful at his chosen career of acting, let's just call it Career A. Gareth also likes to dabble in his sideline musical career, let's just call that Career B. And the problem he has with Career B, is that the audience for Career B is now almost entirely made up of fans he has acquired with Career A.

*nods*

apparently john simm quit his band magic alex for exactly that same reason - ie, he got sick of fans who'd seen him in the lakes and human traffic coming to the gigs just to gawp at him and not to listen to the music. i hope gareth can keep both of his passions going, and that they both keep being fun.

Date: 2008-05-06 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] justinej.livejournal.com
Blimey, this has all become quite a heated topic across the sites. As someone who was there, the only thing I would say is that what happened should have stayed behind closed doors. Whatever his reasons for doing what he did (and I seriously don't remember him mooning on stage!) it should have stayed off the web then none of this would have been debated. I don't know how to express what I feel about the whole thing really. He seems like a really nice guy but he's trying to be too many things for too many people and in my honest opinion, he was not a happy bunny on Saturday night.

I have sympathy for both views. I know why people are trying to 'protect' him. I feel for Jo especially because I don't actually think she would have said anything if someone else hadn't bandied it about. Arrrgghh. I can't explain myself properly....

It should have all stayed behind closed doors. I'm sorry!

Date: 2008-05-07 01:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinnthered.livejournal.com
That's the rub though. Public events don't stay behind closed doors and never will.

If he, or a fan, does something publicly the best thing is to air it out quickly and nip it in the bud. Stalkers, scary fans, and baseless rumors don't flourish in the light of day.

In my experience, the longer something like this stays quiet, the more drama builds up around it, and by the time it goes public it will cause an explosion. All that for something that would have caused a day or two of minor drama had it been discussed openly in the first place. And it will always go public.

The other thing is this, new people to fandom learn behavior from more experienced people. If actions like the ones of the the people who followed Gareth around all night are not compared and contrasted with the actions of someone like Jo and the other people who were there for the music, then the new fans don't learn appropriate fan behavior like they should. It's creates a cycle of bad fan behavior that can't easily be fixed later. You'd think a lot of it would be inherent, but for a lot of people it isn't.

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Date: 2008-05-06 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dividedloyalty.livejournal.com
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<i<and>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

<i<And Gareth? You caused wank. You have officially MADE IT, dude.</i>
I read the first bit and the last couple lines. That's how much I care about actor's lives hehehe.

Anyway, just though about pointing out that maybe he did something a bit out there precisely because it would create <i>some</i> sort of noise. hehehe

Date: 2008-05-07 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kateorman.livejournal.com
For the past couple of days, I have been defending Mr Barrowman's honour over at [livejournal.com profile] fandomsecrets, a strange position in which to find oneself. To the best of my knowledge he has yet to flash a fan. lol

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