tencrush: (iantobutton)
[personal profile] tencrush
It's finally time for me to illustrate some of my views on Ianto and his dominant/alpha traits, whatever you wish to call them. Or at least to prove, once and for all, that Ianto is FAR FROM the wussy, servile wimp that parts of Torchwood fandom still seem to love to label him as.



Ianto the Hard Man. I love how people have this image of him as some sort of woobie shrinking violet. Did they not catch this shiteating grin? Maybe they went to the loo for a sec. I put this one in first because it doesn't really fit in with the narrative of my logics and also because I find this one quite sexy. Onwards!


Back to the narrative of my logics, then. Day One. Now, as we all know, Ianto didn't really have much of a role in series one, apart from Cyberwoman. A lot of episodes, such as this one, he only had one or two lines. So here we are with the "With my eyes" speech. I love this little scene, look at everyone craning to watch him talk...


Even Jack, who had up until this point been kind of staring into space, turns to look at the teaboy talk. I put these two caps in to show how much Ianto commands the attention of those around him. Now that's not just because he doesn't say much, and therefore people pay attention when he DOES, it's also because he's got a few really quite overt leadership qualities. Watch this scene if you've got the chance and watch him turn to address everyone and catch their eye. Ianto's a man who knows how to make people listen to him when he wants them to. He just doesn't want them to very often.

I'm going to go for a brief aside and focus on the interaction between Ianto and Owen specifically, over the two series.


Series one Owen can't seem to help having a dig at people every time he opens his mouth. Here he's just remarked that if you give Ianto a stopwatch, he's happy. It's not quite clear what he means by that, but knowing what Owen does say to Ianto on other occasions, we can reasonably assume that he's implying Ianto has no life. Far from shrinking away from Owen, though, Ianto meets his eyes (again. Ianto actually does this a lot, he's not the behind your back grumbly type) and retorts that it's the button on the top. Again, not a hugely clear comeback, but it's that fact that he doesn't physically react in any way to the put-down that's interesting. Ianto isn't actually that easily intimidated, not even by Owen.

(Would this be a good time to mention that I believe the "It's the button on the top" line to be Ianto's veiled implication that Owen couldn't find a woman's clitoris if you drew him a map? Thought so, that's what the smirk's all about, you see. It's the button on the top, Owen, it's not rocket science.)


Ianto and Owen again, in CJH just as Ianto's about to shoot. Again, I can't really sum this one up with a cap, but watch the scene and watch how Ianto reacts to the "part time shag" line. He doesn't, not even a batted eyelid, nothing. Owen does not intimidate Ianto, not even when he hits him way below the belt.


"I wasn't aware we were in competition" What's being said here is quite important, and I believe it's true. Ianto's never seen Owen as any sort of threat to him, whereas Owen's bitterness towards Ianto shows quite clearly that Owen DOES perceive Ianto as a threat, or at least as an equal with whom he is competing for some sort of status as second largest penis in the organisation. In fact, let's face it, if Owen really was such an alpha male, he wouldn't be in any doubt as to the size of his metaphorical cock, nor would he constantly feel the need to refer to Ianto as "teaboy".

(Funnily enough, this scene also shows exactly the physical response we would have expected to see in CJH when Owen references the shagging again. Ianto looks away and is momentarily flustered, but then Jack and Ianto's relationship has changed at this point in time and Owen is clearly not aware of this fact.)

Ianto and Owen, then, overall, Ianto is, as Owen quite clearly says, the winner in the dick-measuring contest that Ianto wasn't even aware he was participating in. The simple fact that the contest even took place in Owen's head says more than the outcome ever could.


So much for those two, let's look at Ianto and Jack, the other power player in Torchwood. If there was anyone ever in any doubt that Ianto is capable of being a more than a match for Jack in the power stakes should he so desire, Fragments should have quelled that quite nicely. Oh, the fayce. He's onto you, Harkness.


And the physicality! The boy doesn't tend to do physicality much, but he's quite willing to pull out all the stops if he feels the need. Like here.


And here. There's a very obvious desperation in this scene, at least in terms of what is being said, but for someone who is, like Ianto, very much at Jack's mercy, he sure doesn't physically show any weakness or put himself into any sort of submissive position, despite the fact that logistically Jack has all the power here.


And then with the "no". He's not backing down. Ianto's the powerless one, and still he can't help himself.


But then, that's because at the end of the day, Ianto always ends up on top. Mmmm... sexy.


UR FAYCE, MY COCK. Not the only time Jack lets Ianto get physically so close to him, in fact Jack often seems extremely physically comfortable and open when Ianto is close, and even more so when Ianto is looming over him. Plus, Ianto really does wave his cock at Jack a lot and Jack seems quite happy to let him.


Even on his knees on front of Jack, Ianto doesn't exactly strike a sexy subby pose. Look at the face. That's his "Fuck you" face. It's kind of hot.


I put this one in because it's just after Ianto propositions Jack with a stopwatch and that scene very much shows, again, that Ianto's not exactly shy, embarrassed or apologetic about what he does. His gaze never wavers from Jack's and overall Jack comes out of this exchange seemingly more flustered than Ianto is. I also put it in because just after this proposition (and my assumption is that this moment is when their private relationship resumes after Cyberwoman) is the only time in series one that I can recall Ianto calling Jack "Jack", moments before, and moments later, he calls him "Sir".


Onto series two. Yes, Ianto's flustered in this scene, he's very obviously surprised that Jack's asking him out on a date. But he does give him this pose as it happens. Hit me with your best shot, Harkness. And, oh, my penis is here. Don't underestimate my cock, Jack.


The date thing is eventually smoothed out somewhat and Ianto quite quickly regains his composure and gives Jack a direct order to go to the roof. If you can find me any evidence anywhere of Jack Harkness quite literally scrambling to follow anyone else's orders, you're a better person than I am.


Terrifying. Grrr. I thought this scene was really sexy when I first saw it and I didn't quite know why. Watch the end, after the grrr, in slow motion. Watch as Ianto catches Jack's eye and the two of them stare each other down (the camera angle changes slightly at the end, but Ianto doesn't, in fact, move a muscle.) Aww... look who slopes off in the end. Ianto's cock wins again.


Kissytiem. Ianto's physically higher up. Again. Jack seems really at ease with Ianto higher up, and he opens up emotionally. Funny.


Oh, the hilarity! "Do I show off?" "Just a bit." As has been remarked by a few other people elsewhere, Jack actually defers to Ianto here, RIGHT IN FRONT OF RHYS, with not a hint of embarrassment. Ianto tells Jack that, yes, he did deserve that, and Jack lets the matter drop. I like it when Jack shows us exactly who's boss (hint: it's not him.)


No reason for this one, really, just badass Ianto in Ianto's hottest scene EVER with the ninja skillz. He's such a macho man.


No real reason for this one, either, except to show the lovely, lovely staging. The physical similarities between the two of them, and the very fact that Ianto is IN this shot, showing us how much of a part of Jack's life Ianto has become. He's in the background, but he's not being pushed to the background, you know what I'm saying?


Ianto likes it when Jack's below him as much as Jack seems to like Ianto being above him. In fact, when they're in this position, both of their minds seem to wander off to sex quite quickly. Bless.


Adrift is the first real tangible evidence we get that Ianto is more than willing to stand up to Jack (notice he's playing pocket billiards again here as well, he does that quite a lot in series two) and if that doesn't lead to a satisfactory outcome...


...he'll play dirty. I love this face. It's the face of a guy who knows he can play dirty because he's confident that when he is, inevitably, found out, he'll STILL come out on top. It's the face of a man with a really big cock and the skills to know what to do with it. Metaphorically, of course.


And of course, the face of a man who knows that he'll always be the one with his hands free to answer the phone when his plaything's tied up. Literally.





So there you have it. My what a big penis he has. Who would have thought it, eh? There was a point to all this, but it has, as always, temporarily escaped me due to pretty. I'm sure someone will remember what it was eventually.



EDITED TO ADD: That cap from Captain Jack Harkness? God, I miss those earpieces. I think the costume department forgot about the great impact made by things that draw one's eye to bits of the human anatomy interested parties may well want to nibble. Bastards.

EDITED AGAIN TO ADD MINI PICSPAM BONUS:











I add/repeat these because they show Ianto at his most threatening. It's weird, because Ianto at his most threatening seems to always involve that face, and it's a face that can't quite make its mind up as to whether it's menacing or flirtatious. In fact, Ianto behaving as a kickass hard man always AT THE SAME TIME seems to involve Ianto being more... sexy than he normally is. The taser as penis substitute in Meat, this thing...



... with the grape in Combat. As soon as Ianto starts exhibiting aggressive behaviour, his actions also become rather more overtly sexual, which is why he strikes me as having, sexually, quite an aggressive and dominating personality.

Which, obviously, is nothing to do with why I love Ianto so much. Nope.

ETA AGAIN (June 2008): If you're only just reading this, could you tell me where you came from? I'm being linked to from all over the place and I'm interested.

Page 1 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Date: 2008-04-23 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gogo-didi.livejournal.com
Ianto's cock wins again
Hurrah! lol. This was brilliant, I agree with all of it :-)
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Date: 2008-04-24 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kribban.livejournal.com
We've never seem Jack initiate sex with anyone. He's just not the type.

Date: 2008-04-23 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bandgeek01.livejournal.com
Great Alpha!Ianto Picspam. What Gareth can do with his eyes says so much more then words can say.

I'm going to look at the pretty again. I may have something more tangible to write later.

Nicole

Date: 2008-04-23 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
Great picspam. I for one have always thought that Ianto is an alpha male; which is why I can't figure out why some people see him as a puppy who is going to get his heart broken by big bad Jack (someone actually said that after Something Borrowed). I love Ianto and his mad ninja skillz.

Date: 2008-04-24 03:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vampyran.livejournal.com
Oh I remembered that. I hated it! just because Ianto had to wait a while before Jack noticed him! OMG That annoyed me to no end.

"Bad Jack is just using Ianto"... wtf... Ianto clearly is very capable of saying no and stop.

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Date: 2008-04-23 03:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mslauren2930.livejournal.com
And of course, the face of a man who knows that he'll always be the one with his hands free to answer the phone when his plaything's tied up. Literally.

and here was the perfect place to sneak in a picture of tiedup!Jack. oh well... I'll just let my mind wander...

Date: 2008-04-23 03:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] th-esaurus.livejournal.com
I love Ianto and I love your meta. This is all so helpful to my shitty shitty oh god why am i doing this roleplaying ;D I think people tend to focus on the big moments, i.e. Ianto crying, rather than these smaller, overall elements. Which is a shame. Ianto is so hardcore.

If you happened to have time to post the ninja Ianto smackdown clip, I for one wouldn't disapprove.

Date: 2008-04-23 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] louiex.livejournal.com
Such win :D Your meta certainly has had me rethinking our dear Mr Jones! I think its the extremes of character, seeing Ianto's break down before we get enough of a sense of him at the norm in Cyberwoman seemed to bother some people, that skew the pov towards the Wibbling Welshman(tm) idea~

And Sleeper, oh Sleeper :D What about the bedside manner comment scene? Ianto's so disruptive and giddy when he's getting good sex again~

Date: 2008-04-23 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crabby-lioness.livejournal.com
It's fascinating to watch Jack. All throughout DW and TW he's portrayed as an alpha male -- who likes to be dominated by another alpha male. And Ianto, in spite of his youth, relative inexperience, lowly and occassionally precarious position on the Team, isn't the least bit afraid to dominate him.

Date: 2008-04-23 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodochaplet.livejournal.com
This is fucking genius, especially the line about pocket billiards. I too have always felt that Ianto had a yard of hard pipe and was not afraid to use it. There's no way Jack would waste his time with some milquetoast, no matter how hot he was. And he's so very hot, made even hotter by the fact that we know he always winds up on top. Jack is a very pushy bottom.

Date: 2008-04-23 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kurthummel.livejournal.com
Let's face it. Ianto Jones is the definition of sexual being.

Date: 2008-04-23 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crankyholly.livejournal.com
Great job laying this all out. I am more inclined to think of Ianto as the dominant one now. Plus, yu used some really great screencaps!

Date: 2008-04-23 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cloverdilly.livejournal.com
Well, I know I'm sold, like really really really, and it makes so much sense. Jack's a greedy, arrogant thing at times, but you know he'd prefer to defer the power to someone else, leaving him free not to be tied down (so to speak) with that kind of responsibility of making all the decisions. Great post!

(notice he's playing pocket billiards again here as well, he does that quite a lot in series two)
Someone once told me that guys shove their hands into their pockets to hide or at least draw attention away from their hard-ons. I don't know how much merit that statement has, but that comment made me think of this.

Date: 2008-04-23 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] louiex.livejournal.com
(notice he's playing pocket billiards again here as well, he does that quite a lot in series two)
Someone once told me that guys shove their hands into their pockets to hide or at least draw attention away from their hard-ons. I don't know how much merit that statement has, but that comment made me think of this.


Let alone how tight it makes his trousers over the backs of his thighs and his ass. Which is quite the delightful view considering Jack usually has that side of him to look at when Ianto's got his hands in his pockets :D

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Date: 2008-04-23 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mellacita.livejournal.com
I didn't need any convincing to begin with, but yeah, I'm totally sold. As for the last point, total trufax. Needy, tied-up, pushy bottom bellowing for Ianto. No possible alternative explanation that I will buy.

Also, Ianto in this icon. Totally smug, totally secure.

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Date: 2008-04-23 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] time-wraith.livejournal.com
Hmm... *Drools*

Umm, I mean: very educational and pretty informative and stuff. Yes. That was what it was. Thank you.

Hmm... Dom!Ianto...
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Date: 2008-04-23 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nightspring.livejournal.com
Okay, I'm not sure if this helps any in supporting the alpha!Ianto theory, but I was just rewatching the team introduction scene from Everything Changes, and I noticed this.

"I am the best!"
Image

Well, what he actually says is "I try my best," but well...

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Date: 2008-04-23 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthhellokitty.livejournal.com
Yay nice big Ianto penis for the win!

A byproduct of this picspam: it totally crushes the common fanfic idea that Ianto is an itty bitty little thing compared to Jack.

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Date: 2008-04-23 06:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schnuckel.livejournal.com
Totally loved this. I agree with everything, I like it when Jack shows us exactly who's boss (hint: it's not him.) That's definitely the best bit =D
I love Ianto's role in the second series, so much stronger and more of a vital role. He's brilliant.
And his cock always wins, he's the Archivist ... he knows everything =P

Date: 2008-04-23 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bookwrm89.livejournal.com
I couldn't agree more with you! Everything we've seen on screen points to him being an alpha!male. That grin from Countrycide reappeared in Meat when he ran into the first criminal in the hallway too. That is one scary grin. There's also the scene from Something Borrowed where he cut in on Jack & Gwen...he gets their attention, sort of turns and makes Gwen think he wants to dance with her and then totally shuts her out of the equation to claim Jack. He's very good at those non-verbal smackdowns. Jack knew exactly what Ianto was doing too, if his little smile was anything to go by. The whole scene was just a fuck-off to Gwen and reminder to Jack of exactly who Jack belongs to.
Also, if Ianto was the wimp alot of people make him out to be, there is no way we'd have that elevator scene with John in KKBB. Ianto was making it very clear to John that he was more than just the "eye-candy", and John realized it too.

Date: 2008-04-23 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'Also, if Ianto was the wimp alot of people make him out to be, there is no way we'd have that elevator scene with John in KKBB.'
I loved the lift scene, even Captain John is intimidated by him. Notice how when Ianto came at him John took a step back and look surprised.

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Date: 2008-04-23 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bubbleslayer.livejournal.com
I haven't read through all the comments, but I wanted to point to one more example. I don't have a cap, but I'm sure someone around here will...

In 'Combat' when Jack and Ianto go to the hospital to question the 'victim' it's Ianto that plays the Bad Cop to Jack's 'Good Cop.' And again, Ianto is physically above Jack, and the 'victim.'

Date: 2008-04-23 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imagination55.livejournal.com
It's the face of a man with a really big cock and the skills to know what to do with it. Metaphorically, of course.

OF COURSE.

Now I'm going to drop the higher than thou knowing winky sarcasm (phew) and say that it's SO EASY to get distracted when using screencaps of pretty to illustrate points! I feel your glee pain.

You make a VERY good argument, indeed for this corner. Never thought of Ianto as the weak shrinking violet either. Clearly some people need lessons in psychology and other such useful shizz.

Yeah, bring back the earpieces too or an ACTUAL earpiece would do, rather than the insane ear pressing that reminds me of kids playing at being badass adults (cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, etc). :)

Date: 2008-04-23 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'rather than the insane ear pressing that reminds me of kids playing at being badass adults (cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, etc). :)'
Yeah it does look a little silly. What I want to know is, did they have the comms implanted into their brains?

'Never thought of Ianto as the weak shrinking violet either.'
Yeah me neither but a lot of people seem to. I think it's because when he cries he *really* cries (see: Cyberwomen).

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Date: 2008-04-23 07:35 pm (UTC)
ext_17954: (Jack/Ianto)
From: [identity profile] cayendi.livejournal.com
Well put, as usual :)
I still don't agree with you with TKKS being the (re)beginning of their intimate relationship, but the rest ...
You ROCK!!

I still can't believe people see Ianto as weak, or the poor little abused subby :rolls eyes:
As for him crying/emo, I wish I could remember where I read the essay on that subject ... it wasn't you by any chance, was it? It explored all the situations we've seen emo!Ianto in, with very valid explanations of the how, what and why of his behaviour. Very good read ... if I could only remember where I found it ...

Date: 2008-04-23 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bandgeek01.livejournal.com
Ohhh I read that too. I don't remember where. Let me see if I put it my LJ memories.


Nicole

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Date: 2008-04-23 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paddy-wolfstar.livejournal.com
Nicely done! I would add something more constructive, but, you know, distracted by the pretty...

I never understood how some people came to the conclusion that Ianto's a big wuss when he's so clearly not. Although, I hadn't realised until now just how bad-ass he really is! Yay Alpha!Ianto!

Btw, thanks for the grape picture in the second edit... Holy crap, I'll be having some nice dreams tonight! ;)

Date: 2008-04-23 08:57 pm (UTC)
off_coloratura: (Ianto fetish)
From: [personal profile] off_coloratura
As soon as Ianto starts exhibiting aggressive behaviour, his actions also become rather more overtly sexual, which is why he strikes me as having, sexually, quite an aggressive and dominating personality.

See also his description of the killings in front of the lie detector in Adam. Disturbing? Yes. Not exactly himself? Also yes. Sexy? Oh my yes.

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Date: 2008-04-23 09:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
taser = penis substitute FTW.

'As soon as Ianto starts exhibiting aggressive behaviour, his actions also become rather more overtly sexual, which is why he strikes me as having, sexually, quite an aggressive and dominating personality.'
Excellent point. I knew that Ianto was not the sad little puppy some people see him as, but until this post I had no idea he was *that* dominate. It makes a lot of sense why Jack would be attracted to him, Jack has always seemed like a bit of a follower; when Jack went back to Doctor Who he fell into Ianto subservient butler role (he took the Doctor's coat).

Date: 2008-04-23 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xanister.livejournal.com
-points to icon-

Don't forget that Jack also made tea for the Doctor. :D

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