Just out of interest...
Jan. 9th, 2009 09:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tencrushI'm seeing very little on my American flist about the Middle East conflict, and just out of a cultural interest I'm wondering what's being reported over there. Could anyone enlighten me?
For the record, tonight's Channel 4 news reported the following:
750 Palestinians killed, over one third of those were children
Over 3000 wounded, again, over 1000 children
Israel taking the US abstention on the ceasefire as go ahead to keep bombing Gaza, Israeli forces keeping UN aid from arriving, not allowing ambulances in to treat the wounded for up to 4 days and denying all knowledge, last week allegedly evacuating several Palestinian families into a one-family house, only to bomb it 24 hours later, Hamas retaliating against the bombing and invading force with a couple of home made rockets.
I'm not proferring an opinion on the conflict, the Middle East is quite frankly a mess that I don't know enough about and there's wrongs on all sides, granted, but our media is definitely opinionated on the matter, and I can understand why. What's the US media saying? (I'll bet it's not "it's America's fault for abstaining," which is what they're saying over here. And again, yeah, I can see why.)
For the record, tonight's Channel 4 news reported the following:
750 Palestinians killed, over one third of those were children
Over 3000 wounded, again, over 1000 children
Israel taking the US abstention on the ceasefire as go ahead to keep bombing Gaza, Israeli forces keeping UN aid from arriving, not allowing ambulances in to treat the wounded for up to 4 days and denying all knowledge, last week allegedly evacuating several Palestinian families into a one-family house, only to bomb it 24 hours later, Hamas retaliating against the bombing and invading force with a couple of home made rockets.
I'm not proferring an opinion on the conflict, the Middle East is quite frankly a mess that I don't know enough about and there's wrongs on all sides, granted, but our media is definitely opinionated on the matter, and I can understand why. What's the US media saying? (I'll bet it's not "it's America's fault for abstaining," which is what they're saying over here. And again, yeah, I can see why.)
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Date: 2009-01-09 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 08:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 08:43 pm (UTC)We had briefly seen about the 3hr cease fire the other day that let a tiny ammount of supplies into Gaza.
I haven't heard much else, I'm sure there's more information that is probably being reported on our 24 hour news stations like CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News.
Nicole
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Date: 2009-01-09 08:44 pm (UTC)New YorkersAmericans, has been reporting the general gist of at least your first three points and your last one (I hadn't heard until today about the "evacuating into a house later shelled" outrage). Particularly the bit about UNRWA convoys taking Israeli flak and ICRC complaining that Israeli troops are getting in their way. As to Hamas, they've taken a battering, but are determined (inevitably) to carry onno subject
Date: 2009-01-09 08:48 pm (UTC)I have seriously no right to start blaming people as the situation is just too fucked up to blame just one side, but damn, shooting and UNO transports is all kinds of wrong from all perspectives, Israel...
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Date: 2009-01-09 08:48 pm (UTC)Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. 250 children dead, 1000 injured, that's reporting that isn't coming from Palestine, because there IS no reporting from Palestine, those reports are directly from the UN, our news is literally just filled with United Nations officials begging and pleading for Israel to stop bombing or at least let them in to help people, or at least stop bombing schools or show some fucking humanity or something. I've never seen anything like it, I've never seen the UN coming across as quite so desperate, it's very sad.
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Date: 2009-01-09 08:54 pm (UTC)They've also been investigating things that led up to this, including political background of Hamas, recent history on the ceasefire, and so on. npr.org
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Date: 2009-01-09 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 08:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 09:00 pm (UTC)It is really sad.
Nicole
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Date: 2009-01-09 09:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 09:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 09:05 pm (UTC)Also, I'm almost sure I've read something about stopping the bombing for three hours a day so that they can get help? I'm not sure, I don't remember that article well.
News in this part of Europe aren't too pro-Israel, focusing mostly on deaths of civilians.
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Date: 2009-01-09 09:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 09:08 pm (UTC)My mom is very pro-Israel and my whole life I've basically just sided with Israel just because I'm Jewish and it's kind of hard to abandon one's heritage like that, but this situation is painful for me in America because of that reason. I want so badly to side with Israel on this but I really can't because I have such strong feelings against killing civilians and although Israel technically isn't aiming to kill civilians, they've still killed about 200 times more civilians with their attacks than the Palestinians have with theirs. So I just can't root for Israel on this one. And I wonder if I'll just have to stop being proud of Israel now, forever.
Fucking why?
(Also, I'm sorry, that didn't answer your question at all. Forgive my brain-spillage.)
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Date: 2009-01-09 09:27 pm (UTC)Someone above said their stations haven't reported on the children being killed and wounded. WTF? What else aren't you getting informed about?
I think we're getting too much news about it here, and if that sounds heartless I think too much is almost as bad as too little, because you end up desensitised to it. You see it yet again on the TV and you go "are they ever going to stop?" and you just go make dinner like it's got no influence on you anymore.
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Date: 2009-01-09 09:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 09:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 09:35 pm (UTC)I'm seeing a lot of comments about "Israel's struggle" and "Hamas attacks" on Facebook even among the most liberal of my acquaintances.
since that didn't work
Date: 2009-01-09 09:45 pm (UTC)I really have nothing to say on the matter for a number of reasons, but I'll let Jon Stewart speak for me instead.
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Date: 2009-01-09 09:49 pm (UTC)We also get these very bizarre commercials telling us Israel is at risk and we simply must support this certain nonprofit who provides much needed aid to Israeli victims. All well and good, but my sympathies generally are directed to a displaced people living in abject poverty under strict blockades, rather than the rich military superpower. Call me crazy.
I haven't commented on lj because 3 members of my flist are Israeli and are very vocal.
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Date: 2009-01-09 10:00 pm (UTC)If I were cynical I might also suggest we were anticipating the different aid contracts that grow out of a situation like this.no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 10:17 pm (UTC)I don't watch any TV news at all, actually. No reason. Just don't.
I get most of my news from National Public Radio, and I second
My #2 news source (in terms of hours I listen) is BBC America, but I can't say I've heard them in the last couple of weeks.
#3 is the New York Times, and here's today's update. Please try not to implode when you read the words that come out of our SOON TO BE FORMER YAY President's moronic mouth. I didn't implode, but you understand I've had eight years of practice.
And here's an idealistic Edward R. Murrow icon, with his immortal quote about Americans. *hopes for better times*
ETA: Personally? I want to spank the shit out of all of 'em, the leaders of Palestine and Israel alike.
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Date: 2009-01-09 10:39 pm (UTC)So essentially, the conflict is being sanitized with a pro-Israel bias for "average joe" American consumption. Most of the news I see seems to be more focused on the economy, the foreclosure mess, the upcoming inauguration, and how much free money Congress is going to decide to throw out there as a "stimulus package".
MB
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Date: 2009-01-09 10:41 pm (UTC)Unless I'm watching Troy Aikman broadcasting football. Phwoar.
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Date: 2009-01-09 11:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 11:25 pm (UTC)I find Obama's position an amazing combination of entirely appropriate and very wishy-washy. On the one hand, he isn't the president yet, not for another 2 weeks (ish), and so for him to speak to policy for the sitting administration is inappropriate. He ain't in charge yet.
On the other hand, he is a human being, and it's well within the bounds of reason to say something as one human talking to another.
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Date: 2009-01-09 11:52 pm (UTC)I think it's interesting to see the difference between the generations, too: I've talked to my parents about all this and my Dad honestly thinks that something like the Holocaust could happen in America. Now. I don't necessarily agree, but that's the kind of mindset a lot of Jews, especially ones of previous generations, feel. They don't think they'll be safe anywhere but in a place where they have all the military power, and they're not really wrong to think that, I don't think. But, as I've said before, what Israel is doing out of that feeling is still terrible. So, I don't fucking know. It's all about hate, and fear, and I don't see how that is ever going to go away, on either side, or anywhere else.
Sorry for the incoherent tl;dr, I don't know what to think about all this.
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Date: 2009-01-10 12:25 am (UTC)on local new stations it's hardly, if at all, mentioned
on 24 hour news it's probably mentioned and discussed but not at length and not from the same angle (i generally don't watch CNN or MSNBC b/c i can't stand most of the news anchors, except rachel maddow and keith olberman)
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Date: 2009-01-10 12:26 am (UTC)Across the board, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is not being considered Top News. In some cases I had to scroll down the page to find any information at all. Also, in none of them are they giving any indication that the conflicts are continuing because America won't just step in and stop it. They're trying to paint it like an escalation over the on-going border issue and very much "same situation, different day" for the Mid-East politics.
yahoo.com is one of my homepages, so I normally check its news first.
This is the first page (http://pics.livejournal.com/mselfie/pic/000wya76) and as you can see, nothing at all about this. I scrolled down once to this next part (http://pics.livejournal.com/mselfie/pic/000wz8qb) and there is an article. Its very pro-Israel, with the impression that Palestine brought this on by itself.
CNN is my favorite "news now" site, and they do have a blurb on their front page, over on the right. (http://pics.livejournal.com/mselfie/pic/000wsgry) The tone of this article is all about the aid groups being frustrated that they can't get in. Which means its not taking either side, and is blaming both sides equally for aid not being available to hand out.
If I ever watch the news, its on NBC, so I figured I'd check their site out. Their only article is about protests in Egypt (http://pics.livejournal.com/mselfie/pic/000ww48t). It also is very pro-Israel. Page 2 has a video (http://pics.livejournal.com/mselfie/pic/000wxd1f) but I don't watch videos online, becuase I have the attention span of a gnat when its video related, and also SGA is on TV, so I fail in my research, but its there.
Finally, just for you since you mentioned it, I looked to see what Fox news had. Their big headline (http://pics.livejournal.com/mselfie/pic/000wtq24) is how this is being reflected on the internet, and its garbage. But the second article isn't too bad. And almost is sort of balanced, by pointing out that Israel started it, even though they cancel that out by focusing on how the Hamas are not backing down because they didn't have any say in the UN regulation. Very much trying to make them seem childish like they just aren't listening to the parents' superior logic.
So, there you go.
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Date: 2009-01-10 02:37 am (UTC)The news over here shows everything, unlike the US news shows that are happy to show bombs falling, but the only results of those bombs that you see are destroyed buildings and maybe some people crying. People cut in half. Mangled bodies lying in pools of blood. Dead babies lying in the street with their eyes open. Grandmothers whose homes and families are gone.
I have had to explain a lot to my kid that I would rather have waited to talk about.
It's a fucking horror.
Reposted to fix a typo
Date: 2009-01-10 07:35 am (UTC)My opinion:
I can think of no other country in the world when faced with constant violent opposition (in the form of rockets and suicide bombers and other acts of terrorism) that specifically targets their civilian citizenry that has been told “No, you cannot retaliate. No, you do not have the sovereignty to protect your own people.”
I cannot understand how anyone can excuse an organization which not only targets civilians, but uses their own population as shields. The reason these children are dying is because Hamas puts up bunkers next to and in schools and mosques. The technology does not exist to perfectly strike the weapon and leave the man intact, but Israel cannot afford to leave Hamas intact.
Because Hamas as it currently stands will not settle for Gaza. Hamas has not settled for Gaza. It is why they keep their own people in refugee camps--they will not let them resettle until they can resettle in Palestine (aka when Israel is destroyed) because refugee camps create a situation where people are dependent on the government and have very little to lose, encouraging radicalism. It is why when Israel does relax trade embargoes, they use the money and supplies to build more bunkers and pay for soldiers. It is why they currently smuggle rockets from Egypt, and continued to launch them as Israeli towns during this past six month truce.
I ask you this: when will be the “right” time to strike? When Iran smuggles in bigger rockets capable of targeting Tel Aviv, as is a worry? Perhaps it will be when Hamas gets their hands on biological weapons. And if they’ve used suicide bombers, I have no doubt that they would not have a second’s compunction about using them on Israel’s civilians.
The deaths of those children and civilians are a tragedy, but a cease-fire will not solve the problem, only extend it as all the past cease-fires have until Hamas acquires horrible weapons it can threaten Israel with. Israel is hoping to cripple Hamas’s network of weapons once and for all. I hope they succeed. I hope a Palestinian leader who doesn’t like Israel but recognizes the need for coexistence emerges. I hope for real peace.
America should stay out of it. This is a dispute between two governments. Dragging in more military powers would only be a disaster that I hope we’ve learned to not repeat since the last two world wars.
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Date: 2009-01-10 01:24 pm (UTC)The thing about this is that if you want to get all this on the 24 hour networks you have to either turn it on at the right moment or watch it for quite awhile. For a few days Gaza was the bulk of what they're talking about but there is so much crazy stuff going on here with that Illinois governor who is completely certifiable and Obama doing his thing that they're not really in depth. You can find that if you hunt around on the internet but on tv not really. Obama's not saying much about this whole thing, and he's getting criticized for it but I totally understand why. No one's paying much attention to Bush right now. They're all acting like Obama is already president. He hasn't been sworn in yet but he's out there meeting with Congress and giving speeches (mostly about economic issues) and stuff, and he's being reported on as if he's already in. So if he said anything now it'd just be taken as a statement of policy, and he probably doesn't want that to possibly complicate things even more.
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Date: 2009-01-10 02:55 pm (UTC)Sad story of course, but I don't believe the Middle East had a look-in the entire evening.
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Date: 2009-01-11 05:36 am (UTC)I feel for the Palestinian people, but Israel isn't to blame for the fact that generations of Palestinians have grown up in appalling refugee camps. Perhaps you can tell me why the UN and other international aid agencies continue to fund Hamas keeping their own people in refugee camps rather than tying their aid to Hamas meeting benchmarks in relocating people out of the camps.
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Date: 2009-01-11 07:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-11 07:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-11 06:52 pm (UTC)