Haha SPOILERS DON'T READ

[tencrush]

In Russell's world, bumsex with Russell Tovey pretty much fixes all your emo manpain, no matter how vast, yeah?

That's pretty faily right there. Not as faily as that thing with Martha and you know who, but still pretty fucking offensively faily. As was that thing with Donna. Wow, that's a lot of fucking fail to heap upon an awful lot of companions.

DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR ASS RUSSELL.

Also, did Simm just disappear, never to be mentioned again, or did it just seem that way?

Comments

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

No argument. He'll shag anything "if it's gorgeous enough." When his daughter said "You are a bastard," I thought damn skippy he is. Bastard!Jack is what I was afraid we were going to lose. And I'm convinced that Lucy heard her mother say it many, many times, because I honestly doubt that he was faithful to her mother or Victorian Wife or even possibly Estelle, although that might have ended before he could start looking around again.

Jack Harkness is a bastard. That's what Moffett gave us. And those of us who never had illusions about him or wanted him to be in a schmoopy-ooopy ship, love him for it.

It just amazes me how much of the CoE hate is framed as "Jack was out of character" when to me, it was Jack being exactly in character.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

Well it's hard for me to say exactly what is in and out of character for him because the Jack we saw in s3 wasn't much like the Jack we saw in Dr. Who either, Moffat's version or otherwise. He was just yet another version of him. I assume people considered him 'out of character' in s3, not because he was a bastard or because he wasn't schmoopy enough, but because he didn't seem to gel with the character we'd seen develop over the past two seasons. Wanting to explore the character's 'bastard' side is one thing. Ignoring two season's worth of character or story because it's inconvenient to the plot you now want to explore is another and tells me that there is no 'real Jack' just a Jack, whose defining qualities are whatever a particular storyline may require. After all if they weren't so intent on ignoring or glossing over what came before, the events at the end of s2, losing his brother and two team mates and being buried for 1000's of years and the trauma that might cause was the perfect set up for the Jack we were introduced to in s3 and would have better explained the 'change' in him without seeming quite so jarring than what we got.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Whereas there was nothing jarring to me at all, just the reiteration that this was real!Jack and had been all along. I think the people who were expecting something different sold themselves a bill of good for whatever reason, somewhat aided and abetted by Moran's "Captain's Blog" swill. However that was never canon. What happened on screen told a consistent story and it wasn't the one they talked themselves into seeing. (Although I admit to being led astray by the pre-S3 hype, which was why I was so worried that Jack was being character assassination and so relieved when it didn't happen.)

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

Well like I said I think it's a matter of opinion about the 'consistency' so we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

Happy New Year & Cheers.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think we'd all be better off without Moran's blog and the prepublicity stuff. But I agree with Coldwater1010 on this one.

You can say that's not cannon but if its done by those involved in the show itself or are authorized material, its not unrealistic for people to assume it is. I certainly did as opposed to fan fiction where I never assume it is.

I'm not hugely involved in other ffs but long ago, in a glaxy far, far away, when AARP wasn't sending me membership letters to join, the Star Wars books that came out right after the Return of the Jedi were meticulously plotted and cross-checked. Can't say I know (or care) after the prequel crap.

Personally, I don't think RTD or Moran or anyone had/has a coherent view of who any of the characters are. I know you disagree, but The Jack of TW S1 & s2 is NOT the same bastard!Jack of DW. and the Jack of CoE is someone altogether different again. And the Jack in the scene in the recent DW - sort of a blending of them all.

I think you are reading into the series what you want to see, just as the Janto and Gwack shippers have done.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Can we please retire the ugly smushnames? (Whether you mean them positively or derogatorily.) They really suck. J/I or J/G makes the point just as well.

As I said in another post somewhere, Jack Harkness is quite the Roarshach test, but I can't be the only person in the world who thinks he has been consistently real!Jack onscreen from "Gotta meet a girl" to "Are you going my way."

From Grin to Shining Grin as it were; it's all so seamless.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Of course there are those that see things your way. Just like there are those who believe that Janto (and yes I will continue to use that term- every term you don't happen to like is not derogatory) was apparent as well. And the characters are so ambiguously drawn that many different points of view have merit.

You might want to keep in mind that I have been a defender of your point of view on this journal. But you do not have the absolute truth to TW anymore than I do. So you might want to consider that the continual drumbeat of 'Real!Jack is back' is getting just a tad tiring.

Oh, and since I don't agree that your characterization of Jack is the real one, can I make a fuss about saying the Real!Jack term whether meant positively or degrogatively is a problem for me. Its not, but I just want to know if that Ok by you.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Free internet and all that! And I'll keep up the fight against the smushnames purely on aesthetic grounds.

J/I was apparent because we saw a hand job and a total of three on-screen kisses. I've never said they weren't fucking.

Cheers & Happy New Year.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Please do me a favor. Drop the smushname campaign when communicating to me. I heard you. I just don't happen to agree, nor am I obligated to comply with your wishes..

You are selling way beyond the close at this point.

Happy New Year to you.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

OK, I'll try to remember.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

I agree. I don't have much time for the blog or the books or whatever else t.v shows/ films etc. put out there because I'd rather they wrote better scripts rather than force their fans to seek out other outlets to get better clarity on what's supposed to be going on on the show/ film, whatever. But if the shows put them out there I assume, beyond being a cynical cash-in, that these things are supposed to be an addendum to the viewing experience and therefore another facet of canon. After all if the show doesn't want the audience to view them as connected to the show then the simple solution is not to produce them then there wouldn't be any confusion.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Oh, but its all about the money. The books, the DVD's, the official magazine, the action figures, that's worth many times more than the shows themselves.

And when they either contradict the show cannon or confuse it, then you can bet that $ is the driver and quality is a distant second.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'And when they either contradict the show cannon or confuse it, then you can bet that $ is the driver and quality is a distant second.'
Agreed. That reminds me of how in one of the tie in books Ianto said he came out to his parents when he was younger, but it was completely contradicted in CoE.