See... the thing is...

[tencrush]

When you DECLINE my request to join the savecoffeeboy community, a request I submitted in order to attempt to find out if this MASSIVE PDF was an official document of yours, or a personal project, you really make yourselves look like you're up to something if not suspicious, at the least really rather bordering on the crazy side.

I've PM'd you guys and I've mailed you, whoever's in charge of this document:

TAKE MY NAME, MY WORDS, MY COMMUNITY, MY PONY CAMPAIGN AND MY IMAGES OUT OF YOUR GARGANTUAN FILE OF BATSHIT. I am not affiliated with your insanity.

Comments

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Of course, the bound copy including your quotes, name etc has already been sent to the BBC, given to GDL and also handed to a less than enthused JB, leading to the "John is dissing us" school of outrage.

So at the moment, assuming anyone does read the thing, you (and anyone else who was quoted without permission) are pretty irrevocably attached to the hard copy, even if you get them to change the PDF.

In case you don't know, they're also obsessively tweeting the link as well. If you search for #torchwood, you'll probably come up with hundreds of posts, each one with a link.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I don't remember the Owen and Tosh fans being this batshit when we lost them at the end of season 2. In fact, I remember quite a few of the fans screaming for Ianto's return telling us to get over it and move on. They should take their own advice.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Hey, hon! How are you doing? *HUGS*

I think we can say they are not the most gracious bunch of fans in the world, and their sense of entitlement is something to behold.

Obviously not referring to every single distraught Ianto-fan, but I'm pretty willing to apply it to those involved in savecoffeeboy, especially after they started hiding behind their "friends only" because what they were saying was actually being held up to the light and they didn't like the view from the outside.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I am going through the PDF right now, I am laughing because they included this random screengrab from the CBS executive about the Save Jericho campaign (which I was part of). Its one thing to save an entire show....and its another thing to be hysterical over a single character. Yes, I am calling them hysterical...but its based on their rabid response to anyone who doesn't support them or questions them.

And **HUG**...I am doing ok. Bill is home from the hospital after 3 weeks and the home health nurse makes her first visit this afternoon.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

At least one of their members describes herself as an authority and is considered a "talisman" because she was involved in the SGA campaign to bring back a character and one other campaign, which may or may not be Jericho.

A real problem in terms of their goals is that at least 80% (maybe more) of the campaign is not just "bring back Ianto" but "bring back Ianto in the relationship with Jack that we thought we were promised."

My new pet theory is this: they get their way to the extent that Ianto is brought back and in a delightfully soapy plot twist, we have the reveal of him alive...as the cut-away from Jack & Gwen tumblng into bed together.

Or suppose they bring him back, and eventually put him in a relationship with Lois Habbiba? Do we think all the "I only want GDL back" folks would really be happy with that?

So there's an inherent hypocrisy in the whole thing. It's not really "Save Coffee Boy," it's "Save Our Ship."

[(Anonymous)]

Not strictly true. As someone who uses the SIJ campaign as a good source of GDL news, I can tell you that a large majority of the fans over there don't even like Jack. I personally was hoping for a break-up in season three so we could see Ianto in a relationship with someone else, but sadly it was not to be.

Sorry. Remaining anonymous as I really want nothing to do with this PDF wank.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

I have an excellent pipe-line, so I know a lot of what goes on over there. My feeling (and I know it's not everybody) is that the anti-Jack sentiment is mostly motivated by the lack of schmoop in the relationship in CoE, again, relative to what they insist they were promised, especially in the promo-pictures, especiallyespecially the ones that depicted Jack embracing Ianto, which more than one person used to refute my well-known thoughts on the balance of emotion between the characters.

If you look at the Twitter campaign, especially, it's all focused on Jack/Ianto. I've yet to see anyone tweeting for the BBC to bring back Ianto and not put him back with Jack.

I understand that the campaign is not monolithic and that there are some differing points of view. There is also a very loud clamour for getting Ianto back, specifically to put in a J/I relationship that they feel will fulfill the "broken promises."

Again, if they got Ianto back, following a consumated (either physically or emotionally) Jack/Gwen, or if Ianto were put in a relationship with another character (male or female), would that be considered a victory, or would it lead to more vilification of RTD?

Edited to clarify: My sources tell me what goes on at SCB, not the SIJ website. So I get to see the the super-crazy stuff.

[tencrush]

I think one of the major reasons it comes across as really ship-based (which is one of the reasons I don't support it, I loved Ianto, but was meh about the ship), is because the ship's a lovely handy thing for them to hang their accusations of homophobia onto. The killing of the ship, the ending of the m/m relationship and the whole GLBT angle is the one thing they can really get on a moral high horse about, and therefore the ship is referenced at every opportunity.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

I'm another Ianto fan who would have been delighted to see him in a new relationship, even with a female character, shock horror. I used to get annoyed at the lack of Ianto/OFC fanfic out there, though I do enjoy Jack/Ianto fanfic if its well written and doesn't feature woobie Ianto.

I can't believe anyone thinks RTD will bring Ianto back because of a fan campaign. Only if Russell wakes up one morning with an ache in his heart will that happen - and we're talking about the man who killed Jack's grandson and who's going to kill Doc Ten on New Years Day - what a nice way to start the new year, thanks Russell. :)

BTW - If Gareth knew the full extent of this campaign, I'd think he'd be quite embarassed. He's already said in a radio interview that whilst he's flattered, he also finds it "creepy" which shows that he does care how fans behave over him.

Mind you, it's nothing new. Sir Arthur Conon-Doyle was pestered into bringing Sherlock Holmes back from the dead after Moriorty killed him and that was how many years ago? Fan obsession is what the film 'Misery' was about.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

Or suppose they bring him back, and eventually put him in a relationship with Lois Habbiba? Do we think all the "I only want GDL back" folks would really be happy with that?

I FUCKING LOVE THIS IDEA!
but i also would like him to come back and be EVIL - and not how they copped out with john hart, but really really evil! it'll never happen, and i'm good with that, too

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'In fact, I remember quite a few of the fans screaming for Ianto's return telling us to get over it and move on. They should take their own advice.'
I remember you telling me about that before CoE aired. I guess it's only okay to be upset over a character(s) death if they're YOUR favorite character *rolls eyes*

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

You don't think I wasn't upset over Ianto's death? I was. I felt RTD made a bad choice, killing another character so soon after Owen and Tosh. Its destroyed the show, losing 3 main characters so close together.

But I have to agree somewhat with karaokegal, that for those so up in arms over his death right now, its not about GDL or even Ianto himself. Its that their ship is destroyed, and for those who hate Gwen, they think its opened up the door for Gwen/Jack. Theres an awful lot of Gwen bashing going on in that 400 pages of PDF (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Gwen, but not because of Jack/Ianto, because I feel Rhys deserves better).

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

I meant by 'your character' the Ianto fans who said just get over it. Personally I'm still not over Tosh, Owen and Ianto's deaths completely- and anyone who tells me to get over it can take a walk.

'Its destroyed the show, losing 3 main characters so close together.'
That it did. It always seemed to me that the characters were Torchwood's strongest point.

'(and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Gwen, but not because of Jack/Ianto, because I feel Rhys deserves better).'
So true. Rhys at least deserves someone who doesn't lie again and again.

'But I have to agree somewhat with karaokegal, that for those so up in arms over his death right now, its not about GDL or even Ianto himself. Its that their ship is destroyed, and for those who hate Gwen, they think its opened up the door for Gwen/Jack.'
Sadly I've seen the shipping too. Personally I would have loved to see Ianto get a big, dramatic storyline (or any storyline really) that wasn't about Jack. The could have at least shown something of his life outside of Torchwood.

[tencrush]

Is this that "book", then? I don't actually know, I don't really follow any communities anymore, so I get the feeling this has been going on behind my back for weeks now, simply because I don't pay enough attention. I also don't really know why it's suddenly surfaced and being linked to all over the place.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I don't know if its the same book, but a book was given to GDL, John, and sent to BBC offices.

[tencrush]

OHGODIAMSOEMBARRASSED.

Holy fucking shit, man. That's is SOME fucking cheek.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

I feel so embarrassed for GDL, whose employer now has seen him misquoted, and also which T shirts he ordered (which surely should be confidential.) This must be totally mortifying for him.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Weeks? How about MONTHS?

How about within weeks of the broadcast of Day 5?

And yeah, that's "the book." They gave bound copies to GDL, who appeared chuffed and impressed and to JB who seemed considerably less so, and of course the one sent to the BBC, which they are convinced will accomplish all their goals.

It's taken them this long to compile and get bound. The link went up a few days ago, but only yesterday did they deem it fit for public consumption beyond their f-locked (ahem) circle.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'And yeah, that's 'the book.' They gave bound copies to GDL, who appeared chuffed and impressed and to JB who seemed considerably less so, and of course the one sent to the BBC, which they are convinced will accomplish all their goals.'
Wow! I usually only see that kind of thing in the Supernatural fandom. The stories I could tell you. No wonder people think ALL fangirls/boys are crazy.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

I won't comment on the SPN fandom, which is its own brand of crazy, but I'm somewhat heartened to see people I consider "mainstream" J/I fans sort of shaking their heads at this thing, rather than embracing it.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'I won't comment on the SPN fandom, which is its own brand of crazy'
That fandom is so crazy that TPTB actually made it canon.

'I'm somewhat heartened to see people I consider 'mainstream' J/I fans sort of shaking their heads at this thing, rather than embracing it.'
I don't know how mainstream I am but I'm shaking my head.

By the way have you bought the Due South dvds?

[tencrush]

I mean, apart from anything else (and believe me, I'm engaged in some "debate" about it as we speak) it looks like it was put together by an eleven-year-old. Seriously.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Something is up. My sources tell me they've deleted their own link, and want people to stop posting it. Kind of late to try and get that toothbpaste back in the tube if you ask me.

[tencrush]

I don't know, the megaupload link seems to still be there. I got an extremely butthurt response saying I'm being "rude" about the campaign, and they'll take my quotes out IF I LOOK THEM ALL UP, cause I've got nothing fucking better to do over Christmas, and IF I take all references to this matter off my journal. So as far as I'm concerned, they can go fuck themselves right now.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

I hope someone here has saved the pdf on their hard drive.