See... the thing is...

[tencrush]

When you DECLINE my request to join the savecoffeeboy community, a request I submitted in order to attempt to find out if this MASSIVE PDF was an official document of yours, or a personal project, you really make yourselves look like you're up to something if not suspicious, at the least really rather bordering on the crazy side.

I've PM'd you guys and I've mailed you, whoever's in charge of this document:

TAKE MY NAME, MY WORDS, MY COMMUNITY, MY PONY CAMPAIGN AND MY IMAGES OUT OF YOUR GARGANTUAN FILE OF BATSHIT. I am not affiliated with your insanity.

Comments

[bandgeek01.livejournal.com]

I always knew they were all a little fucked up in head over there.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

It's interesting to see a nice idea devolve into character bashing... screw that, it's simply sad.

[aresnz.livejournal.com]

That whole area and the people there are totally screwed up in more ways than one.

Lori

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

And jovialien wonders why I am annoyed with their group. She even removed me from her friends list because I and others criticized a friend of hers who is one of their more zealous members after she was quite rude to Barrowman at Collectormania. (She claims she wasn't rude, but when she talks about acting disgusted with him asking if they would watch another season, and letting him know she was disgusted, and storming away after giving him a book of their campaign....sorry, to me thats rude)

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Plus, they get their facts wrong on the Missing Pterodactyl poster - the one with Ianto's name is not the one on the Tourist Information... I know that for a fact BECAUSE I MADED BOTH ... *grumblegrumble* I'm against people using my stuff without asking me... n

ETA the 2nd: Hmm, they've been answering me promptly and will look into it..

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Of course, the bound copy including your quotes, name etc has already been sent to the BBC, given to GDL and also handed to a less than enthused JB, leading to the "John is dissing us" school of outrage.

So at the moment, assuming anyone does read the thing, you (and anyone else who was quoted without permission) are pretty irrevocably attached to the hard copy, even if you get them to change the PDF.

In case you don't know, they're also obsessively tweeting the link as well. If you search for #torchwood, you'll probably come up with hundreds of posts, each one with a link.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I don't remember the Owen and Tosh fans being this batshit when we lost them at the end of season 2. In fact, I remember quite a few of the fans screaming for Ianto's return telling us to get over it and move on. They should take their own advice.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Hey, hon! How are you doing? *HUGS*

I think we can say they are not the most gracious bunch of fans in the world, and their sense of entitlement is something to behold.

Obviously not referring to every single distraught Ianto-fan, but I'm pretty willing to apply it to those involved in savecoffeeboy, especially after they started hiding behind their "friends only" because what they were saying was actually being held up to the light and they didn't like the view from the outside.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I am going through the PDF right now, I am laughing because they included this random screengrab from the CBS executive about the Save Jericho campaign (which I was part of). Its one thing to save an entire show....and its another thing to be hysterical over a single character. Yes, I am calling them hysterical...but its based on their rabid response to anyone who doesn't support them or questions them.

And **HUG**...I am doing ok. Bill is home from the hospital after 3 weeks and the home health nurse makes her first visit this afternoon.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

At least one of their members describes herself as an authority and is considered a "talisman" because she was involved in the SGA campaign to bring back a character and one other campaign, which may or may not be Jericho.

A real problem in terms of their goals is that at least 80% (maybe more) of the campaign is not just "bring back Ianto" but "bring back Ianto in the relationship with Jack that we thought we were promised."

My new pet theory is this: they get their way to the extent that Ianto is brought back and in a delightfully soapy plot twist, we have the reveal of him alive...as the cut-away from Jack & Gwen tumblng into bed together.

Or suppose they bring him back, and eventually put him in a relationship with Lois Habbiba? Do we think all the "I only want GDL back" folks would really be happy with that?

So there's an inherent hypocrisy in the whole thing. It's not really "Save Coffee Boy," it's "Save Our Ship."

[(Anonymous)]

Not strictly true. As someone who uses the SIJ campaign as a good source of GDL news, I can tell you that a large majority of the fans over there don't even like Jack. I personally was hoping for a break-up in season three so we could see Ianto in a relationship with someone else, but sadly it was not to be.

Sorry. Remaining anonymous as I really want nothing to do with this PDF wank.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

I have an excellent pipe-line, so I know a lot of what goes on over there. My feeling (and I know it's not everybody) is that the anti-Jack sentiment is mostly motivated by the lack of schmoop in the relationship in CoE, again, relative to what they insist they were promised, especially in the promo-pictures, especiallyespecially the ones that depicted Jack embracing Ianto, which more than one person used to refute my well-known thoughts on the balance of emotion between the characters.

If you look at the Twitter campaign, especially, it's all focused on Jack/Ianto. I've yet to see anyone tweeting for the BBC to bring back Ianto and not put him back with Jack.

I understand that the campaign is not monolithic and that there are some differing points of view. There is also a very loud clamour for getting Ianto back, specifically to put in a J/I relationship that they feel will fulfill the "broken promises."

Again, if they got Ianto back, following a consumated (either physically or emotionally) Jack/Gwen, or if Ianto were put in a relationship with another character (male or female), would that be considered a victory, or would it lead to more vilification of RTD?

Edited to clarify: My sources tell me what goes on at SCB, not the SIJ website. So I get to see the the super-crazy stuff.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'In fact, I remember quite a few of the fans screaming for Ianto's return telling us to get over it and move on. They should take their own advice.'
I remember you telling me about that before CoE aired. I guess it's only okay to be upset over a character(s) death if they're YOUR favorite character *rolls eyes*

[tencrush]

Is this that "book", then? I don't actually know, I don't really follow any communities anymore, so I get the feeling this has been going on behind my back for weeks now, simply because I don't pay enough attention. I also don't really know why it's suddenly surfaced and being linked to all over the place.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

You don't think I wasn't upset over Ianto's death? I was. I felt RTD made a bad choice, killing another character so soon after Owen and Tosh. Its destroyed the show, losing 3 main characters so close together.

But I have to agree somewhat with karaokegal, that for those so up in arms over his death right now, its not about GDL or even Ianto himself. Its that their ship is destroyed, and for those who hate Gwen, they think its opened up the door for Gwen/Jack. Theres an awful lot of Gwen bashing going on in that 400 pages of PDF (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Gwen, but not because of Jack/Ianto, because I feel Rhys deserves better).

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I don't know if its the same book, but a book was given to GDL, John, and sent to BBC offices.

[tencrush]

I think one of the major reasons it comes across as really ship-based (which is one of the reasons I don't support it, I loved Ianto, but was meh about the ship), is because the ship's a lovely handy thing for them to hang their accusations of homophobia onto. The killing of the ship, the ending of the m/m relationship and the whole GLBT angle is the one thing they can really get on a moral high horse about, and therefore the ship is referenced at every opportunity.

[tencrush]

OHGODIAMSOEMBARRASSED.

Holy fucking shit, man. That's is SOME fucking cheek.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Weeks? How about MONTHS?

How about within weeks of the broadcast of Day 5?

And yeah, that's "the book." They gave bound copies to GDL, who appeared chuffed and impressed and to JB who seemed considerably less so, and of course the one sent to the BBC, which they are convinced will accomplish all their goals.

It's taken them this long to compile and get bound. The link went up a few days ago, but only yesterday did they deem it fit for public consumption beyond their f-locked (ahem) circle.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

I meant by 'your character' the Ianto fans who said just get over it. Personally I'm still not over Tosh, Owen and Ianto's deaths completely- and anyone who tells me to get over it can take a walk.

'Its destroyed the show, losing 3 main characters so close together.'
That it did. It always seemed to me that the characters were Torchwood's strongest point.

'(and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Gwen, but not because of Jack/Ianto, because I feel Rhys deserves better).'
So true. Rhys at least deserves someone who doesn't lie again and again.

'But I have to agree somewhat with karaokegal, that for those so up in arms over his death right now, its not about GDL or even Ianto himself. Its that their ship is destroyed, and for those who hate Gwen, they think its opened up the door for Gwen/Jack.'
Sadly I've seen the shipping too. Personally I would have loved to see Ianto get a big, dramatic storyline (or any storyline really) that wasn't about Jack. The could have at least shown something of his life outside of Torchwood.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'And yeah, that's 'the book.' They gave bound copies to GDL, who appeared chuffed and impressed and to JB who seemed considerably less so, and of course the one sent to the BBC, which they are convinced will accomplish all their goals.'
Wow! I usually only see that kind of thing in the Supernatural fandom. The stories I could tell you. No wonder people think ALL fangirls/boys are crazy.

[(Anonymous)]

Aye, I was referring to the SCB site also.

I don't use twitter, so I've not seen anything that goes on over there. I'm a member of the campaign because I adore Ianto as a character and while I enjoyed elements of his relationship with Jack, I watched it for him. I just hope this PDF thing won't give everyone in the campaign and Ianto fans a bad name, because there are many others who feel the way I do over there but are not vocal about it due to the crazy.

As for Jack, I enjoyed his interactions with Ianto through the three seasons, but as a character I find him dull. I sure hope if Ianto ever does come back, they don't pair those two up again. Instead they should bring Tosh back and hook him up with her.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Which leads to the "LAMBDA mark" stuff and makes them look, dare I say it, hysterical. I honestly think a totally character-based campaign a la SGA, might have a better chance. The fact they conflate the demise of their ship with the "horrifying" potential of Gwenwood i.e. Jack & Gwen, doesn't do them any favours in refuting the charges of misogyny and heterophobia.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

I feel so embarrassed for GDL, whose employer now has seen him misquoted, and also which T shirts he ordered (which surely should be confidential.) This must be totally mortifying for him.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

I won't comment on the SPN fandom, which is its own brand of crazy, but I'm somewhat heartened to see people I consider "mainstream" J/I fans sort of shaking their heads at this thing, rather than embracing it.