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THAT SPOILER, DUDES. I told you WEEKS ago that Gareth's a big fat liar and we'd see him in Who soon. Watch this space, it's fucking true, I tells ya.

Oh, and you know there was an interview with Marsters a while back which was ostensibly about Whedon and the Spike movie and such, but he did let slip he already had Torchwood filming lined up in his diary for next year, right?

Having said that, I think that rumour a while back about TW only being recommissioned for a five-episode stint might well be true. I think they're going for ANOTHER revamp, and they've SO got US dollars on the brain. Which is funny, yo because the dollar's so sucky right now. But all this would take place after the elections, so per definition the dollar would be less sucky, but still.

Wow, the writer's strike and the absence of any new drama in the US did this show SO MANY FAVOURS, didn't it? Seriously. If you see US interest as a favourable development, that is.

What I mean is, I think us Whovians seriously underestimate how many fans of the Buffyverse came into TW season two, for a lack of anything better to watch anyway, watched for the Spike and stayed for the slash. It's the most fortunate set of circumstances that could ever have befallen a British drama series and if you don't think BBC Wales are SCRAMBLING and tripping over their own feet right now to take advantage of that situation, you are VERY WRONG.

I wish Torchwood was Welsher than it is. And seeing as they seemingly based Ianto's character almost ENTIRELY on internet fanon, I wish they'd run with what seems to be the unanimous internet opinion that Ianto speaks fluent Welsh. Damn them.

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I think they're going for ANOTHER revamp, and they've SO got US dollars on the brain.

Yeah, because sex and violence NEVER goes over well in the US. WTF.

Watch this space, seriously. That thing about Russell wanting to be Whedon, it's so true. And I think he might be grooming that Moffet girl for something, I reckon she'll be his Buffy.

'Yeah, because sex and violence NEVER goes over well in the US. WTF.'
I know it makes absolutely no sense. I suppose since their doing a CSI:London they could do a Torchwood:America (maybe TW4 is in area 51).

maybe TW4 is in area 51

Bwah! And Jack O'Neill is really its leader! Actually, the whole Stargate program is a cover for TW! :D

'Bwah! And Jack O'Neill is really its leader! Actually, the whole Stargate program is a cover for TW! :D'
*snickers* Maybe the rift is actually a wormhole.

LOL! And imagine Rodney McKay sniffing around the hub, turning his nose at the unmethodical state of things, while John Sheppard and Ianto hits it off and are suddenly best buddies forever, to the chargin of Jack and Rodney...

Ahem, what was the topic, again? :p

Ianto and John Sheppard as best buddies forever...awwwe. I'm sure Ianto and Rodney would hit it off as soon as he has some of Ianto's coffee. And of course Rodney being Rodney Myfanwy would him follow around (much to his chargin).

'I think they're going for ANOTHER revamp, and they've SO got US dollars on the brain.' Why, why, WHY! Does this mean they really are going to turn Torchwood into a family friendly show? I really don't want Torchwood to be like every other American show.

'I think that rumour a while back about TW only being recommissioned for a five-episode stint might well be true. '
Well that stinks. But I guess five-episodes are better than nothing.

'I wish they'd run with what seems to be the unanimous internet opinion that Ianto speaks fluent Welsh.'
Since they stole your idea about the ManWhoreSpy.

Ten/Ianto is like

my ultimate guilty pleasure pairing *__*

'Ten/Ianto is like

my ultimate guilty pleasure pairing *__*'

Ohhhh...all those pinstripes. Not to mention Ianto's a teaboy and we all know how much the Doctor likes tea.

actually, the US market wouldn't cause a 5 episode series. that is a purely BBC type thing to do.

and i would venture to say that BBC America is currently wetting themselves trying to get a full 13 episode series 3 of torchwood because the show's ratings are 3 1/2 times higher than anything else on the network. TW was probably helped a little by the writer's strike, but not as much as you might expect since its shown on Saturday here, and for the past few years, no one has shown new shows on Saturday night- rather they've gone with movies figuring people will be away from home.

i don't think they're going to drop a big tablet of retcon in the torchwood pool; i don't think we'll see changes in the Jack/Ianto/Gwen characters. What I do fear is overt cross-casting. I can see moving Martha into the cast as the medic, and her "spooky doo" experience would come in handy; but the main problem i've always had with TW was lots of cast but writers that couldn't handle stories involving more than 2 people. I think the show could work with 4 main characters.

they do need to Welsh-up our Ianto. we know GDL speaks Welsh (he's young enough they would have taught him in school and he did during Absolute Power) so at least have him and Gwen make some snide comments to each other, or maybe talk to someone outside the hub. that was one of the best things about Firefly - all the cursing in Chinese!

i remember someone pointing out that the S5 DW weirdness is purely a RTD thing, it was his idea so he could work on other projects. hopefully that will mean focusing a little more attention on TW and not flitting off onto some other thing.

personally, the thought of Ianto + Ten makes me laugh. I imagine something along the lines of a tanarian-type story involving Ianto nearly shooting ten on numerous occassions.

No, I wasn't implying the 5 episode series is for the US, I think the 5 episode series is an interim BC thing to keep the show ticking along while they work out how to tap America and see how Who does on BBCA on the back of TW's success.

Yeah, one of my main problems with the show is how one character always manages to fall by the wayside, they can't seem to keep 5 characters interesting, but I think that's also down to the confines of a 13 episode run, there really just isn't that much time to focus on everyone. Look at poor Tosh this season.

As far as I'm aware, Russell IS flitting off to some other thing, I thought that was what I heard anyway. Maybe he's changed his mind about his hands-off approach to Torchwood now that it might yet turn out a bigger cash and kudos cow than he thought.

the SciFi channel has the first-run rights to Doctor Who for series 4. SciFi actually has first-run rights to Doctor Who in the US until 2010, so BBC America has to make do with being a second-run carrier along with PBS (who used to be the only way to see Doctor Who in the US).

the original general manager of BBC America for whatever reason didn't think DW would play to the intended market so they passed on DW (technically, BBCA is a licensed identity operated by Discovery Networks, not the BBC). i'm sure the people running the channel now are spitting nails at not having the DW franchise, but they do have TW and aren't letting that get away. but they did let Sarah Jane Adventures go to SciFi oddly enough.

writing balanced scripts for large ensemble casts is hard. writing 2-person scenes is easy. it can work, if the writers spread the story out. parts of reset worked because you had all the members doing different things that carried the story forward.

i honestly don't know if tosh had fewer lines in this series than Ianto- his were more spread out while she got almost everything in a single episode.

personally, RTD annoys the heck out of me. the creative types i've worked with don't just throw an idea over the fence and let others deal with it- they participate.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Duh. Stupid BBCA. All the more reason for making TW their cash cow, though, even if that calls for a crossovery rejig.

I'm not a big fan of RTD myself, I think the extent to which he kept telling me how brilliant and clever he was in the DW Confidentials around the first and second season really killed him for me. Having said that, I think he might latch onto TW again, because he could see himself making a name for himself as the guy who finally successfully brought The Gay to a mainstream-ish large scale American audience. He's just the kind of guy who'd happily lap up the praise for that sort of thing. Even though he doesn't really seem to like gay people much. (Or old people, or, judging from episode one of S4 Who, fat people. That's a HUGE amount of self-loathing for anyone to deal with, good thing he's got so many shows on the go to vent it.)

"making a name for himself as the guy who finally successfully brought The Gay to a mainstream-ish large scale American audience."

eh, too late. while i don't think will & grace did much other than play stereotypes; brothers & sisters has a very active gay lead character played, ironically enough, by matthew rhys, who is from cardiff!

RTD believes his own press, that's some of the problem. i just hope TW survives mostly intact and gets placed in the hands of someone that actually cares about it and doesn't see it as a stepping stone *cough*chibnall*cough*.

He doesn't seem to like Americans very much, either.

RTD? He loves Americans. His whole idea for Torchwood was to take the British Sci-Fi idea and Americanize it. While he has succeeded in some of the glossier aspects, he hasn't succeeded in the storytelling. I agree with Holdingoff that he is not hiring the correct writers for this show. I actually wish he'd bring in a few Americans. US shows handle ensemble casts like this much better. There's something to be said for the classic A and B storyline style of writing.

I'm finding it hard to believe Chibnall doesn't believe in story bibles, especially since Dick Wolf snatched him up. Wolf is progressive, but still a bit old school. I'm thinking he was towing the RTD party line.

Somebody needs to stand up to RTD, and now. I agree that this is a window for RTD in the US, but I worry that this five episode event television week will hurt him severely. I'm with holdingoff in believing that BBCA is probably desperately trying to negotiate more episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if they are offering money at this point. I'm also betting RTD is having trouble wrapping his head around the idea that anyone could love Torchwood more than Who. I really think he thought Torchwood would always be his little pet side project. Oops.

Also, I just read recently that GDL doesn't know but two words of Welsh. He spoke some in that Stephen Fry show, but I guess he learned it for the scenes.

Really? Aren't Americans the part of the fanbase that he calls mingmongs?

No, the ming mongs referred to the "overenthusiastic" fans. Like the ones who freaked out because the TARDIS in the new series isn't the proper dimensions for an actual Police Call Box. (hence the joke line in Blink)

It had nothing to so with nationality. It was mostly directed at the English fan, if anything.

Meh. I had enough of that sort of insult from Joss Whedon during my Buffy fandom days. RTD sounds like a true disciple.

I can understand your feelings, but RTD said it with a lot of love and hurt. He's a huge fan himself. The Whoniverse is really very different from most other fandoms. The only one I can think of that is similar is Star Trek. With both of them there is a large section of the fan base that literally grew up on the shows.

RTD has an ego problem, absolutely, but it comes from a different place than Whedon's. He's one of us, and feels that those more eccentric fans bring down the whole. Including himself. Joss just has a God complex. Maybe RTD is developing one too, especially with the spin-offs, but that's not where that comment came from.

I don't agree with the tone of it, or the language, but it came from a feeling of personal insult by certain other fans, and not just a desire to put his minions in their place. That I understand.

i honestly don't know if tosh had fewer lines in this series than Ianto- his were more spread out while she got almost everything in a single episode.

*sigh* Poor Tosh. I'm finding that it's hard to work her into a team vid, because there's so few shots of her, unless it's an episode specifically focused on Tosh like Geeks Bearing Gifts and To The Last Man. Ianto is somehow significant even when he appears for only a minute in an episode -- for instance, he only has two or three brief scenes in Small Worlds, but I keep watching those scenes over and over trying to puzzle out where his relationship with Jack is at that stage. Tosh is just doing background exposition unless the episode is focused on her.

'personally, the thought of Ianto + Ten makes me laugh. I imagine something along the lines of a tanarian-type story involving Ianto nearly shooting ten on numerous occassions.'
I hope they have at least one scene together. To me Ianto has always seemed very companion-like (sometimes even Doctor-like). I really hope he brings up the fact that the Doctor called Jack an abomination. Not to mention all those pinstripes.

We'd all better pray RTD doesn't become Joss Whedon. That was not a happy fandom at the end.

The problem is that RTD wants to be Joss Whedon, but he's really Marti Noxon.

Oh God.

Now I've come over queasy.

You're welcome.

And I think I should have typed Marni? I can never remember which one is her name.

It's Marti. But I refer to her as Noxious. :-)

Just reading through this old thread, and ran across this comment of yours, and it's the truest thing I've ever heard in my life!

I want to quote you everywhere. I want a friggin' bumper sticker! May I quote? I'll credit!

Quote away, citation optional.

'We'd all better pray RTD doesn't become Joss Whedon. That was not a happy fandom at the end.'
I think that is exactly who he wants to be.

If it gets us a show bible & better written stories, yay! If we get something along the lines of BtVS S6/S7 or the disaster that was ConCord, ugh. Early JW was great; mid to late JW was about the wheels falling off.

'If it gets us a show bible & better written stories, yay!'
Let's hope. As much as I love this show, the writing seems very inconsistent at times.

'Early JW was great; mid to late JW was about the wheels falling off.'
Not being familiar with his work (shocking I know) I'll take your word for it. For some reason Buffy never appealed to me.

Think 'egomaniac' on a mission to give the fans 'what they need not what they want' while at the same time trying to run three different shows and having extremely poor judgment in surrogates and then keep going from there...

I'm perfectly a-ok with the spoilers we have for the TW finale, but if the spoilers for S3 come true I am going to have to weep into something soft and fluffy. That "new format" would essentially take away everything that makes the show awesome and kill the show.

Also if they make some sort of American version of TW I probably wouldn't even watch it. The Britishy-ness is part of what I like about Torchwood, and then the characters are the number one thing about the show that I like. So an American TW with no Britishisms and different characters wouldn't hold much interest for me. I mean, I don't know if this is even what you're implying, but those are my thoughts on the subject anyway. :)

'That "new format" would essentially take away everything that makes the show awesome and kill the show.'
I know it will kill the show for me, especially if it means that Jack/Ianto becomes non-existent. I hoping that if they *have* to make it family-freindly that they just tone down the violences.

I think they may want to try an appeal to the largest possible audience but it will probably just drive the fanbase away. It's one thing to make a few changes but to completely change the format. It would be Torchwood in name only.

When I say change the format, I'm referring to the format only, not the story or setting or anything. I think they might be looking at taking a more American approach in terms of episode numbers, length, and possibly the way they approach the writing. I'm not saying they'd be writing for sweeps, but they might want to write a slightly more coherent and compelling story arc, which might be easier if they had more episodes to play with, but that requires quite a commitment from the actors and production team

'...but they might want to write a slightly more coherent and compelling story arc, which might be easier if they had more episodes to play with, but that requires quite a commitment from the actors and production team.'
That sounds like a good thing. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But I thought that the spoilers we have for S3 indicated there would only be 5 episodes? Them gearing towards a more American-style season would please me greatly because American seasons have upwards of 24 episodes per season, but the rumors circulating seem to indicate something entirely different. So yes, if they change the show to a somewhat Americanized format, all that would really mean is more episodes and more coherency, and that would be great. But it sounds from what we've heard that it's going the opposite way and that would make me incredibly sad indeed. The rumors have suggested that Jack may only be on as a recurring guest character, and I mean, what the fuck would that accomplish? It would be limiting the most fascinating relationship on the show while also taking away the most important if not most interesting character on the show. Which makes me flail with discontent.

That's what I heard too. It just doesn't make any sense. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If Jack does become a recurring character on his own show I'll probably stop watching. What would be the point?

Well, the only silver lining I could see to it is that Ianto would still be on the show, and with Jack gone he'd probably have more screentime. So if Ianto is still around and being awesome I'd still watch, but it probably wouldn't entertain me as much.

It just seems like taking Jack out of the show would equate to the showrunners purposefully shooting themselves in both feet. There's a reason that we didn't see the team working together when Jack left after S1, and that's because a Torchwood without Jack isn't a Torchwood worth watching.

'Well, the only silver lining I could see to it is that Ianto would still be on the show, and with Jack gone he'd probably have more screentime. So if Ianto is still around and being awesome I'd still watch, but it probably wouldn't entertain me as much.'
That could be a silver lining.

For me the best part of Torchwood has always been the Jack/Ianto interaction, John and Gareth really have such great chemistry.

They really do. Gareth in particularly is a fantastic actor-- I'm sad he hasn't been in more filmed productions!-- and John Barrowman definitely has his own special brand of awesome going on when on screen.

'They really do. Gareth in particularly is a fantastic actor...
Oh yes he is fantastic. I don't think I would like Ianto nearly as much as I do if he was played by someone else. He really brings Ianto to life.

'I'm sad he hasn't been in more filmed productions!'
He's still a young man who has his whole career ahead of him.

GDL absolutely brings a huge dimension to the character that the showrunners have basically outright said wasn't really intended to be there in the first place.

I just hope that his popularity boost from Torchwood leads to him being involved in a lot more stuff. I'm interested to see what he could do with a serious movie script.

'I just hope that his popularity boost from Torchwood leads to him being involved in a lot more stuff. I'm interested to see what he could do with a serious movie script.'
I'm very interested in that too.

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