tencrush | Haha SPOILERS DON'T READ

I actually put them on my Netflix queue. We've finished the first one and just got in the 2nd. I posted about this at my LJ, thanking you by name, but I understand if that's not an LJ you want to friend or regularly read.

We love the show, the dog, the Benton/Ray dynamic, the humor, and the quirkiness. (Hubby has dubbed it "Touched by a Canadian.)

So thanks again for participating in Come As Your Not and turning me on to the show. Once we've finished more of the episodes, I'll go back and re-read the story.

Happy New Year!

When have you ever known RTD to be truly sarcastic? He actually said that if he kept Ianto around, maybe Gareth would sleep with him. Not sure if he was being cheeky, but ... all the same. if it applies to Russell Tovey, it applies to Gareth as well.

And all these comments about how they don't understand what I'm saying ... really? RTD has to be brilliant if they're reaching for things to hate him about.

Those of you who don't know what I'm talking about? Don't play dumb. You hate RTD because he killed Ianto -- and I have a 400 page manifest to prove it.

Per some of the more detailed comments, I'm sure there could be other reasons among people in this thread. HOWEVER there's also those currently fulminating in their coffee-bagging fight club who plainly show they would have nominated RTD for saint-hood if he'd given them the J/I they were convinced they'd been promised.

LOL. That's all. Sorry, but Jack will not lament the death of Ianto forever. He's got alot of years ahead of him and he is the intergalactic manwhore of the year.

Well in my fanon, only as part of the litany he went through at the end of CoE, where Ianto wasn't given either first or last place (as in, and most of all Ianto).

In fact, I'm don't think his moping at the bar is necessarily Ianto related as much as the whole thing and of course leaving Gwen for he thinks is her own good.

Intergalactic Manwhore of this year, decade and century, baby!

(AND HE'S COMING BACK!!!)

'We love the show, the dog, the Benton/Ray dynamic, the humor, and the quirkiness. (Hubby has dubbed it 'Touched by a Canadian'.)'
Touched by a Canadian, priceless.

Thanks for mentioning me. We may have our differences when it comes to TW, but we really can love a quirky Canadian show.

'We love the show, the dog, the Benton/Ray dynamic, the humor, and the quirkiness. (Hubby has dubbed it "Touched by a Canadian.) '
Cool. If you ever do anything Due South related or want to check out the fandom,

ds_noticeboad is a good general Due South posting com.

'Once we've finished more of the episodes, I'll go back and re-read the story.'
Just so you know, Ray Kowalski (the Ray in the story and the one in my icon) doesn't show up until the third season.

Right! From TV Tropes, I understand that there's sort of a "Darin switch" in the third season, even though it's technically a different character.

At the moment, I'm trying to cut down on my fanfic reading (and writing) because I need to focus on the novel I'm writing so I probably won't be delving into the fic, but I'll keep the link should I have the craving.

Quirky shows are always fun. It's really a pity that Torchwood put so many people in an unfortunate position, because it should have been a fun quirky everybody screws everybody show, instead of a bastion of hard-core ship-warring.

LOL. That's all. Sorry, but Jack will not lament the death of Ianto ~~forever~~ at all.

Fixed that for you.

'Right! From TV Tropes, I understand that there's sort of a 'Darin switch' in the third season, even though it's technically a different character.'
That's it. What happened was Due South was canceled after the second season, but then they picked up for a third season. By the time DS has been picked up David (the guy who played Ray) had already gotten another job. Ray Kowalski really is a different character from Ray Vecchio (right down to the way he interacts with Fraser); I don't like I would have liked RayK very much if he had been just a blond version of RayV.

At the moment, I'm trying to cut down on my fanfic reading (and writing) because I need to focus on the novel I'm writing so I probably won't be delving into the fic, but I'll keep the link should I have the craving.
Opps. I gave you the wrong com name. It should be

ds_noticeboard.

'Quirky shows are always fun. It's really a pity that Torchwood put so many people in an unfortunate position, because it should have been a fun quirky everybody screws everybody show, instead of a bastion of hard-core ship-warring.'
I know. I pretty much left TW because the shipper wars got so bad. Fandom is supposed to be my happy place. Granted Due South did have it's share of shippers wars back in the day known as Ray Wars; apparently, if you liked RayV you couldn't like RayK (or vise versa) and Mounties help you if you were a Ray/Ray shipper. *rolls eyes* Happily the Ray Wars are little more than a distant, painful memory *knock on wood*

Hey, glad you like the new nickname, LOL.

I don't think we'll see bastard!Jack back because Gwen is his favorite and I think he'll want to make all the Gwen/Jack shippers happy. They'll have a contenscious relationship (a la Moonlighting), but eventually domestic. Kai Owen said at a recent con that he didn't expect Rhys to live through S4.

Ultimately, I think what bothers me the most is that in order to get romantic Gwen/Jack to work RTD had to totally change the personality of Gwen from nosy, selfish, self-absorbed to MommyGoodWifeGwen. If she had started out that way, I'd be fine with it, but she obviously had a personality transplant between S2 & S3.

I wouldn't mind Bastard!Jack back. It would at least make sense in the context of the CoE. Man loses his lover (or shag from your point of view), kills his grandson, alienates his daughter, so he doesn't want to form new attachments. In fact, I would Love, I mean Love for Gwen to just be another in a long line of shags for Jack. But that's not going to happen, not in RTD's universe anyway.

As for 'man-pain' its meant to be derogatory. It probably is sexist, but RTD doesn't write this type of angst for his female characters. No, they just get their memories wiped (Donna) or go crazy (Suzie) or selflessly die (Tosh). And trust me when Rhys meets his tragic death, Gwen will grieve, but it will not be the same. Only the male lead character has this peculiar, over-the-top angst. Can I call it hero-pain? That's not gender specific.

Well all fandoms have their extremes that's just a by-product of the www and its unfiltered access. I generally don't regard that as proof that just because there are people who act that way that everyone or even the majority of people who like/dislike a particular character, writer etc. are therefore of the same mind. As has already been pointed out people like/ dislike things for a variety of reasons and there are a lot of valid reasons for disliking RTD's work that don't relate to a particular character death. His work certainly isn't above criticism. In terms of writing that applies more to Who to Torchwood since he only wrote two episodes of Torchwood, but since he's the producer/creator and by his own admission has a big hand in the decision making on the show if he's going to happily take credit for the good then he has to be willing to take responsibility for the bad.

Most of the criticisms of his work I tend to share and I think unfortunately these last few Who episodes highlighted some of his worst habits and Torchwood was always, unfortunately more about the character potential and moments than anything else and while I didn't hate COE for me if that was a reflection of the show at its best then I can't say I'll regret moving on. And unlike you Jack's 'progression/regression'? and in fact most of the Torchwood stuff was the least involving aspect of COE for me, a couple of moments excepted. Even the grandchild sacrificing was more emotive inducing than a truly emotional moment for me.

That made me laugh. It's true. If Jack didn't lament his own brother getting blown up in CoE than Ianto won't even get a tear of doom.

Most people in this thread and indeed on my friendslist don't hate RTD because he killed Ianto, so I don't really understand why you're choosing to hate on the SIJ-batshit in my journal specifically, I have no sympathy for them, and nobody on this thread has expressed any.

I've harboured a severe dislike for Rusty pretty much since the beach scene at Bad Wolf Bay and he's just heaped reason upon reason on top of it for me to think he's a mediocre one-trick writer at best with a view on relationships that I find distasteful. This finale just proves that in many ways, even though it was far better than say Journey's End, it was still a mess.

The 400 page manifest. Have you actually ever read anything on this site before? Because we are not the 400 page supporters. Anything but.

For you to come here and dump your anti 9 hysterical women, Ianto-coffee bag crap because 'other communities are locked' on this comm is misplaced and insulting. Find some other place to vent. You are in the wrong place.

I agree that no one is above criticism or reproach. And of course if it had all gone the other way in CoE and TEOT, I'd be the one building shrines (to real!Jack) and making snide comments about RTD's personality, love-life, weight etc.

Don't forget that thing on his face.

We'll have to wait and see.

Out of curiosity, did you read Role Reversal? That story makes your exact point. If Gwen and Ianto's roles were reversed then Gwen would in fact be EXACTLY what Ianto is, just a shag. Period. End of story. Because that's who Jack is, and when confronted with the situation he admits it to himself.

IF we'd been given that Jack and a TW where everyone screws everyone, and James Moran's Captain's Blog crap had been flushed down the toilet where it belongs, I think we all could have had a much happier TW experience.

Give J/I the the Stopwatch scene, but then have one episode where Jack has to be dragged half-naked out of someone else's flat to go fight an alien. Then we'd know that Jack was still Jack and neither the J/Iers or the J/Gers would have a horse to get high on.

Life would be beautiful.

There's a couple of them arent there? Are the coffee-baggers even on about that? Stay classy, coffee-baggers.

I know you are not a coffee-bagger, and have expressed your concerns and dislike about their extremism. I highly respect you for that.

Isn't Jack just basically another version of Ten just with more sexin' these days? Maybe that's why he's lost his sheen for me since I can't say I'm a big fan of Ten either. He's just another version of the angst-ridden 'lonely god' "nobody knows the troubles I've seen" trope RTD seems fond of except instead of sacrificing his 'people' he gets to sacrifice various relatives for the greater good while stoically suffering in his loneliness (or not) because no-one understands how lonely it is at the top having to be the immortal anti-hero all the time.

I wouldn't have minded if they'd stuck with a s1 Who version of Jack for Torchwood since I think that was probably the best version of him, but if they went back to that version after the events of COE I probably would end up hating him and despite the show's best efforts I'd rather retain at least a little bit of fondness for Jack.

See, I've never really bought into the idea that just because Jack likes sex and is pretty open to the idea of sex irrespective of species that that automatically translates into him being incapable of anything more than casual shags. I think that's as much a fan fiction as the idea of him settling down with the 2.2 kids and the white picket fence.

Well everyone vents in their own way and if that's their pleasure then so be it. That kind of wallowing doesn't interest me which is why I wouldn't frequent there even if they weren't closed any more than I'd waste my time frequenting rabid anti- Ianto boards since that doesn't particularly interest me either.

He may be capable of more (Estelle, Victorian Wife), but it's pure fanfiction that he'd be having that kind of relationship with either of those people, at least based on what actually happened on screen, rather than the Blog and the fanfic writers minds. (And I'm willing to apply that to ANY TW ship. Those were all shag, but there's should have been more of them. Make it clear that he fucked Susie and Owen as well.)

What some people railed against in CoE was actually evidence that the real!Jack believers were right all along.

It wouldn't bother me, beyond the fact that they have expressed border-line violent sentiments and started their harrassment Twitter campaigns. Also some people I care very much about are stuck in the hot-house over there and I feel like there's no way to do an intervention for them and remind them that there is life outside the Fight Club. :(

It's very unlikely that Jack would be thinking about Gwen when he had to sacrifice his own grandson and possibly lose what relationship he had with his daughter.

My first thought upon seeing Jack at the bar was of Steven.

Haha SPOILERS DON'T READ

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