tencrush | Haha SPOILERS DON'T READ

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Haha SPOILERS DON'T READ

In Russell's world, bumsex with Russell Tovey pretty much fixes all your emo manpain, no matter how vast, yeah?

That's pretty faily right there. Not as faily as that thing with Martha and you know who, but still pretty fucking offensively faily. As was that thing with Donna. Wow, that's a lot of fucking fail to heap upon an awful lot of companions.

DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR ASS RUSSELL.

Also, did Simm just disappear, never to be mentioned again, or did it just seem that way?

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Thanks. I needed that.

Um, not only would the fans eat him alive, his Network boss would eat him alive.

Eek!! Error. Should be ROTFL!! :)

Welcome. I heard that even Kai doesn't think Rhys is going to make it to the end of series 4. It's logical when you think about it; in RTD's mind Gwen is a fairy tale princess (he compared her to Snow White) and her fairy tale wouldn't be complete until her prince (in this case Jack) sweeps her off her feet.

That too. I wonder who's going to get the job of telling him that yes, he is RTD but he can't do whatever he wants with an American t.v. show.

I haven't really properly watched either of these Christmas specials (due to children, family members, wine, food etc). Is it not really worth trying them again on iplayer then? I will share my observations from what I did see:
1) John Sim = lead singer of The Shamen (Mr somebody? Can't remember).
2) Bernard Cribbins is a star isn't he? I heart him.

I volunteer! I'd be happy to give him a reality check.

To be honest I've gone so off Jack since he was on Doctor Who, what with the knock-off Doctor emo manpain jerkness, you'd be doing Gwen a favour keeping him well away.

I do kinda love that in all this Rusty managed to work in his hard on for Russell Tovey.

What do you know, you've hit on the main reason that Ianto lasted for three seasons! Don't believe me? Read Russell's book.

I think everyone is hating on RTD for the sake of hating on him. He must be a brilliant fucking writer if all we do is sit around and wank on the ~INJUSTICE111!!~ that is the death of a fictional character.

I was honestly expecting a train wreck of an episode, especially since it's his last DW episode, but from the sounds of things Russell has outdone himself.

What was blowing me away was the whole 'Martha marries Mickey' thing. That over-shadowed everything else. And the rest sounds faily to the extreme.

I'm sure that there are good bits scattered amongst the fail because somehow RTD manages to do that on occasion. He's great with ideas but often can't manage the follow-through. His horribly rushed endings that try to tie everything up in the last five minutes are a good example of that.

Are you going to do a longer post on the episode? I hope so because you always either see things I missed or see them in a different way that I never thought of.
Sorry for the long comment.

Morgan

Personally I'm more than happy to give GDL 95% of the credit for taking the little they gave him and managing to make enough of it to make a deep connection with the audience. 5% to the writing since they didn't really do that much with him and even that RTD only gets a small fraction of the credit for since he only wrote two episodes of Torchwood in the three seasons. I will give him credit, though, for letting his little friend, as you pointed out, do most of the thinking in this case and keeping GLD on because that, I think, is one of the smarter decisions the show ever made.

Everyone needs someone who will say 'no' to them when they go too far into the realm of stupidity. I think that, in the days of free flowing funds, the only person likely to do such a thing to RTD was, theoretically, Gardner (whose job it was), and she was the other toddler happily playing in the RTD sandbox.

I have to wonder if, having got wind of the massive downsizing coming down the road in BBC world, RTD didn't decide to try to fish in (to his mind) a richer pond.

I will always believe he has no concept of how US television is so fundamentally different in both process and funding - otherwise, no one hoping to present himself as a attractive option could so spectacularly miss the concept that ratings here mean everything, and you don't get to sniff at the little people without dire consequences for your career and your bank accounts.

Depends on the medium. Aaron Sorkin treated his online West Wing fandom like shit at times, but he's Aaron fucking Sorkin...oh wait, he did get fired eventually. Never mind. heh

So the episode. Yeah. Not much to say. Not as bad as the first part, but after all that set up not much of a pay off and while the goodbyes were nice (I'm ignoring the Mickey/Martha get together because that was too lazy even for RTD)it killed the momentum Ten's death/regeneration moment giving him twenty minutes to wonder around saying goodbye to everyone and I hope they sort out the music next series because honestly it's often so OTT and this was no exception.

Okay, I'm going to be realistic here, and weigh a few things...

Well, first, RTD has shown that he can rake in the money, so he did earn the right for that creative control in the world of the BBC. What he did with it, and how he treated viewers, is another story. I agree that Gardner seemed to have dropped the ball at some point, and I'm not sure about rumors of Tranter's iron fist really mean anything since her best shows got shittier as she moved up the ladder.

I should clarify that RTD is supposedly still with BBC Wolrdwide. Tranter and Gardner just rule from LA, and they supposedly have him on "retainer" of sorts, so not yet gunning for American TV. I'm just guessing that Tranter, Gardner and RTD took this gig in the hopes of all of them making the leap. I'm betting Tranter has shot because ruthlessness is rewarded over here...at first. This means they'll get their American TV pilots, and probably get one picked up. There is just no way they'd be able to keep it afloat if they ran things like they did DW. I don't really believe that over the course of US TV show he could maintain things. Even with shorter cable runs. He has weaknesses that are exactly the kind of things that can turn off viewers over time. Unless he's tries with a sitcom...then Tranter would still have to be able to stay in check. He would need the Gardner or Tranter buffer to make it work.

Also, it's not ratings in the US. That's a misunderstanding. It's advertising revenue. You could be middle of the road ratings wise and be raking it in with ad rates because you have a small budget. You'd be in a better position than the number one show on television if that show has a huge budget, isn't near syndication, and can't cover the ad rates. That's how top 10 shows get canceled, and middling shows last for ages. It happens more often than people realize. Ratings is second, and even then it's timeslot averages and 18-34s, and not overall ratings.

Plus, everything is run by the networks now. Almost all TV shows are funded in some way by the network itself, so they have a lot more say. He's used to a different kind of network, and I'm anxious to see if he can adapt. Good showrunners know who to cajole to keep the right people off their backs. I'm not sure RTD has that, and the question then comes down to Gardner, Tranter, or whoever chooses to get into bed with him. Will another producer put up with him? I think they'd give him a shot based on his money making record. How long could he go before he crashes and burns, or could he find a way to stay afloat with oddball projects? That's the real question.

I know! Rusty's knack for making awesome leading men unbearable is quite amazing!

Wait...did he write about Russell Tovey in that Writer's Tale thing? Do share!

No!

But share anyway. :)

Actually, I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but I may end up skimming it at some point if I get a rec from a writer I trust. He is successful showrunner in the UK...bastard.

I can't believe I'm saying this, because I did not like Rose as a character (love Billie Piper as an actress), but I liked the Rose scene. Again, unnecessary, but it was handled as if it brought things full circle and not as though he missed his widdle Roseykins. Just looking at the context of the scene, I wasn't offended.

If this is about Ianto, I don't think his death was an injustice. I thought it was self indulgent and unnecessary - like many aspects of RTD's "plots" - but I'm not bothered in the way many are. My bitching is related to him taking my beloved childhood toy and throwing it across the room. I'm just hoping he didn't break it.

Also, I don't see all that much talk of Ianto around here lately, so not sure the accusation fits. Lots of talk of crazy people who are trying to bring him back, but not so much about him specifically. I'm not sure a lot of people around here will continue to watch Torchwood, so not a good argument for his writing there. And that's because of a lot more than Ianto Jones, I suspect. On the other hand, a lot of people seem to be following GDL's "career" (Sorry, it's not doing much lately is it? I hope he can get better gigs.), so a better argument could be made for GDL's acting.

You need to move on and catch the Sue Sylvester/ Sheldon Cooper express. It's leaving the station with all the cool people. Hop aboard!

It's sad, but it's true. I had my ex-girlfriend read it in Forbidden Planet because she didn't believe it. It's there; sad, but it's there.

Exactly. I loved 10 when he first started. But oh the humanity, the angst, the agony, the man-pain, by the last season, I wanted to slap him silly and tell him to get some balls already.

Ditto with Jack. I've loved CJ from Dr. Who. I learned to except the 'nicer' version of TW S1 & S2. But CoE Jack was FAIL. Nasty, dismissive, and again ultimately filled with man-pain. (Not to mention, a self-delusional idiot).

From the outtakes I've seen, it looks like something akin to pre-CoE Jack is back = closer to S1 TW Jack.

Not sure how I feel about that. You watch Owen and Tosh get killed, freeze your bro, get Ianto killed, oh and murder your grandson, but hey now its time for whoopee! Hope this is 100 years in the future or something. Cause if its not, its just skanky.

Not quite sure what you (teamharkness) are trying to say. There's nothing in this thread about the death of a fictional character (I presume you mean Ianto) except in response to your post.

Seems like you've had a little too much of RTD's koolaid. Most of us here could give a rats ass about Ianto coming back, we just don't like, shoddy, poorly thought out, contrived plots. We don't like his inability to keep his fictional stories' cannon straight or his public spewing after CoE. We don't think that every piece of excrement that extrudes out of his ass-brain smells good or is tasty. Get a clue.

But what is there? Did he literally say that Ianto lasted for three seasons because RTD thought he was hot? Are you sure he wasn't being sarcastic?

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