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In which I tl;dr about Torchwood again. About bloody time, too.
So... it transpires that James Moran wrote the BBCA Captain's Blogs. Interesting. And when I say "interesting", I mean, of course, "weird". I have in the past accused the blogs of having been written by a gushing demented 15-year-old fangirl. So, either James Moran is secretly a gushing, demented 15-year-old fangirl, or James Moran has cynically pandered to the gushing, demented 15-year-old fangirl in all of us. I mean, it's either one or the other, right? I WISH I COULD TALK TO JAMES MORAN RIGHT NOW, SERIOUSLY.
My problem with the Captain's Blogs, which I've expressed on numerous occasions, is the way they are in many instances, completely at odds with what we've been shown on screen when it comes to the Jack/Ianto relationship. And on one level, it's kind of heartening to know that they're the product of the production team, because it means that all that shizzle that we've been talking about all these months, all those interpretations (because that's what they are, let's face it) we have of there being more to Jack/Ianto than handjobs in the hub, there being more depth to it than the shallow sexxings and innuendo we've been unambiguously shown, are supported by at least some sort of opinion by someone on the team somewhere, that yes, there is more to this relationship that the stuff they've chosen to show. It shows promise for the future, right? But, then again, there's the cynical aspect of the whole thing, that aspect that has got up a few people's noses. I guess the question really is, WERE THEY PANDERING TO US?
Well, there's a few possibilities, the first, of course being that James Moran just ships Jack and Ianto. James Moran, personally, is a fan of the relationship and wants to see it played out in the way the blogs play it out. Now, that possibility is all well and good, but if that's the case then it brings me back to the point I have made countless times before about Torchwood, which is that there is no-one in charge. Nobody is taking it upon themselves to make sure all the writers are on the same page when it comes to the interpersonal relationships on the show and it makes for a mess in the area of character continuity. It just doesn't work to let one writer play up Jack/Gwen, and the next Jack/Ianto completely randomly, because all it serves to do at the end of the day is make everybody look bad. Gwen looks like an insensitive slut, Jack looks like a fickle spacewhore and Ianto looks like a trodden-upon boytoy who just takes it (in the ass, yes I know you were thinking it, well done, you). So, yeah, if James ships Jack/Ianto, good for him, a lot of us do, and if that's all it is, then that's fine, but somebody, somewhere, please bear in mind that evidently not all the writers do. And that's hella confusing for those of us watching.
Now the second, and I would hope more plausible, possibility is that James Moran was writing to some sort of brief from up above. But that brings a whole different can of worms to the table and they're just as unpleasant as the other worms (the other worms, up there, which I hadn't yet mentioned, but let's just assume there was a metaphor about worms involved somehow in the first possibility and move along, yeah?) Because that implies first of all that the powers that be were all too aware that they were showing the Jack/Ianto relationship, on screen, in a rather superficial light, because let's face it, of all the interactions we could have been shown between Jack and Ianto, we all agree that perhaps one or two sexual innuendoes should have been dropped in favour of even the vaguest hint that these two have some sort of emotional connection along the lines of the one the blog seems to be telling us they have. Now this brings up an interesting question, which is, when exactly were these blogs written? Because it could quite easily be the case that the blogs were written at a very late date, at a time when negative fan reaction was already starting to filter through, or at least at a time when positive reaction and the popularity of the Jack/Ianto relationship were becoming more clear to the production team, more clear, at least, than at the scripting and shooting stages of season 2. So was James Moran briefed to play catch-up in what the production team realised was a rather too ambiguous portrayal of a relationship the fanbase was rallying around? It's possible. And if so, yeah, you could call that pandering, but at least it's not cynical pandering, right? It's the kind of pandering that makes us fans feel kind of smug and good about ourselves because it tells us that someone's listening. And that promises great things for the future. Cool.
The other possibility though, the other worm in the can, if you will, is that Moran was briefed to add this layer to the relationship purely because the powers that be had no intention of going into it on screen. Now that's cynical pandering. That's the having your cake and eating it scenario and it's the one most people fear is the case. And that fear is reasonably justified, I feel. I mean, here's a team of writers and producers and whatnot who are perfectly happy to take Jack out of Torchwood, plonk him back into Who, rewind his character by a couple of years and turn him back into an omnisexual spaceslut who'll come onto anything with a pulse, despite having had him develop on Torchwood for two years into a man who seems, from what we can gather from the text, reasonably romantic, more than capable of monogamy and a person who places a huge emphasis on protecting those he loves. Not the kind of guy who just leaves you in the Hub with a bunch of Daleks, because hey, you guys can take care of yourselves, right? I'm taking the big gun, smoke me a kipper, helloooo there Sarah Jane. That sort of thing. These are the people we're dealing with here. The people who didn't bat an eyelid when the script said Owen, the guy who's been a doctor for at least five years that we know of, was 27 years old. The sort of people who from our fannish perspective, just don't seem to think twice about the bigger picture they're painting. Or at least once more (bonus points for the reference, peeps, just seeing if you're still paying attention, I realise this is all getting a bit tl;dr.) I hate to break it to the powers that be, but this last scenario is one that a lot of people wouldn't put past you in the slightest. I'm just sayin', you know?
What do I think? I think it's a little bit from columns A, B and C. I think the big problem Torchwood suffers from, and it's one I've had a bit of time to think about, is that they just don't quite know where they want to go with Jack. He was an omnisexual whore, but they've realised that that's just a bit too much of a whoreish thing for the romantic lead of a show to be(especially one that you've touted as such a sexually liberated icon, it gives the impression that sexual liberation=sluttiness and that looks bad and isn't what they meant). But giving him a romantic relationship that's anything more than casual kind of takes away his appeal as a 51st century happy-go-lucky player type, and it bogs him down as a character with nowhere to go. In making Jack our hero, they're kind of stuck now between a rock and a hard place. I sympathise, and I think it's a hard dilemma to resolve. What I do know, though, is that trying to approach him, and his relationship with Ianto, from all angles at once, trying to cover all the bases and please everyone, isn't the solution, and that's an approach a lot of people thought the Captain's Blogs were symptomatic of. I wasn't convinced that Rusty and co. were in the business of trying to please everyone, but, having seen Rose and Handy snog in the sunset in Journey's End, I'm no longer so sure about that one. There's having a cake, there's eating it, and then there's eating every pastry based snack in the whole damned shop.
My problem with the Captain's Blogs, which I've expressed on numerous occasions, is the way they are in many instances, completely at odds with what we've been shown on screen when it comes to the Jack/Ianto relationship. And on one level, it's kind of heartening to know that they're the product of the production team, because it means that all that shizzle that we've been talking about all these months, all those interpretations (because that's what they are, let's face it) we have of there being more to Jack/Ianto than handjobs in the hub, there being more depth to it than the shallow sexxings and innuendo we've been unambiguously shown, are supported by at least some sort of opinion by someone on the team somewhere, that yes, there is more to this relationship that the stuff they've chosen to show. It shows promise for the future, right? But, then again, there's the cynical aspect of the whole thing, that aspect that has got up a few people's noses. I guess the question really is, WERE THEY PANDERING TO US?
Well, there's a few possibilities, the first, of course being that James Moran just ships Jack and Ianto. James Moran, personally, is a fan of the relationship and wants to see it played out in the way the blogs play it out. Now, that possibility is all well and good, but if that's the case then it brings me back to the point I have made countless times before about Torchwood, which is that there is no-one in charge. Nobody is taking it upon themselves to make sure all the writers are on the same page when it comes to the interpersonal relationships on the show and it makes for a mess in the area of character continuity. It just doesn't work to let one writer play up Jack/Gwen, and the next Jack/Ianto completely randomly, because all it serves to do at the end of the day is make everybody look bad. Gwen looks like an insensitive slut, Jack looks like a fickle spacewhore and Ianto looks like a trodden-upon boytoy who just takes it (in the ass, yes I know you were thinking it, well done, you). So, yeah, if James ships Jack/Ianto, good for him, a lot of us do, and if that's all it is, then that's fine, but somebody, somewhere, please bear in mind that evidently not all the writers do. And that's hella confusing for those of us watching.
Now the second, and I would hope more plausible, possibility is that James Moran was writing to some sort of brief from up above. But that brings a whole different can of worms to the table and they're just as unpleasant as the other worms (the other worms, up there, which I hadn't yet mentioned, but let's just assume there was a metaphor about worms involved somehow in the first possibility and move along, yeah?) Because that implies first of all that the powers that be were all too aware that they were showing the Jack/Ianto relationship, on screen, in a rather superficial light, because let's face it, of all the interactions we could have been shown between Jack and Ianto, we all agree that perhaps one or two sexual innuendoes should have been dropped in favour of even the vaguest hint that these two have some sort of emotional connection along the lines of the one the blog seems to be telling us they have. Now this brings up an interesting question, which is, when exactly were these blogs written? Because it could quite easily be the case that the blogs were written at a very late date, at a time when negative fan reaction was already starting to filter through, or at least at a time when positive reaction and the popularity of the Jack/Ianto relationship were becoming more clear to the production team, more clear, at least, than at the scripting and shooting stages of season 2. So was James Moran briefed to play catch-up in what the production team realised was a rather too ambiguous portrayal of a relationship the fanbase was rallying around? It's possible. And if so, yeah, you could call that pandering, but at least it's not cynical pandering, right? It's the kind of pandering that makes us fans feel kind of smug and good about ourselves because it tells us that someone's listening. And that promises great things for the future. Cool.
The other possibility though, the other worm in the can, if you will, is that Moran was briefed to add this layer to the relationship purely because the powers that be had no intention of going into it on screen. Now that's cynical pandering. That's the having your cake and eating it scenario and it's the one most people fear is the case. And that fear is reasonably justified, I feel. I mean, here's a team of writers and producers and whatnot who are perfectly happy to take Jack out of Torchwood, plonk him back into Who, rewind his character by a couple of years and turn him back into an omnisexual spaceslut who'll come onto anything with a pulse, despite having had him develop on Torchwood for two years into a man who seems, from what we can gather from the text, reasonably romantic, more than capable of monogamy and a person who places a huge emphasis on protecting those he loves. Not the kind of guy who just leaves you in the Hub with a bunch of Daleks, because hey, you guys can take care of yourselves, right? I'm taking the big gun, smoke me a kipper, helloooo there Sarah Jane. That sort of thing. These are the people we're dealing with here. The people who didn't bat an eyelid when the script said Owen, the guy who's been a doctor for at least five years that we know of, was 27 years old. The sort of people who from our fannish perspective, just don't seem to think twice about the bigger picture they're painting. Or at least once more (bonus points for the reference, peeps, just seeing if you're still paying attention, I realise this is all getting a bit tl;dr.) I hate to break it to the powers that be, but this last scenario is one that a lot of people wouldn't put past you in the slightest. I'm just sayin', you know?
What do I think? I think it's a little bit from columns A, B and C. I think the big problem Torchwood suffers from, and it's one I've had a bit of time to think about, is that they just don't quite know where they want to go with Jack. He was an omnisexual whore, but they've realised that that's just a bit too much of a whoreish thing for the romantic lead of a show to be(especially one that you've touted as such a sexually liberated icon, it gives the impression that sexual liberation=sluttiness and that looks bad and isn't what they meant). But giving him a romantic relationship that's anything more than casual kind of takes away his appeal as a 51st century happy-go-lucky player type, and it bogs him down as a character with nowhere to go. In making Jack our hero, they're kind of stuck now between a rock and a hard place. I sympathise, and I think it's a hard dilemma to resolve. What I do know, though, is that trying to approach him, and his relationship with Ianto, from all angles at once, trying to cover all the bases and please everyone, isn't the solution, and that's an approach a lot of people thought the Captain's Blogs were symptomatic of. I wasn't convinced that Rusty and co. were in the business of trying to please everyone, but, having seen Rose and Handy snog in the sunset in Journey's End, I'm no longer so sure about that one. There's having a cake, there's eating it, and then there's eating every pastry based snack in the whole damned shop.
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Now, I think Jack is serious about his relationship with Ianto and while a lot of people think that Jack leaving in "The Stolen earth" made him an uncaring bastard, I just thought it was what he had to do.
I actually resent that people expect Jack to be there protecting them like Ianto and Gwen are helpless pups. They are Torchwood and they have to take care of themselves. Maybe is because I don't really watch DW and to me Daleks are not that "scary" and I think they should be able to fend for themselves, and if not die trying. The only thing that pissed me off is that Torchwood doesn't have any better guns that machine guns. That was just plain stupid.
And I don't think Jack was that slutty in DW (this season). He flirted with Sara Jane, yes, and made the comment about "the doctors" but nothing really came out of it. Not only that, but Ianto acting jealous and putting Jack in his place was hilarious.
I do have to agree that continuity is non-existent, specially with the characters relationships. Not only that, but the show is the Jack - Gwen show. They just don't use any other characters to lead the episodes. Even "From out of the Rain" was supposed to be Gwen investigation, but Eve was busy filming "Adrift", so they used Ianto instead. I personally don't see why they don't use him more, since he is full of opportunities as a character. To most people he is recognizable for funny one-liners and shagging Jack, which completely pissess me off. I rather have him single and developed than Jack chew toy.
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Yeah, that irritates me too. Ianto has so much potential as a character and I'm sure Gareth would do a great job with heavy emotional scenes (Adam and Fragments proved that to me). I really hope they use him more in series 3.
'I don't really watch DW and to me Daleks are not that 'scary'...'
The Old!Who Daleks are much scarier; now they use them so much as the evil of the week that they're just a joke. You'd think Ianto would have had a contingency plan; the Daleks were at Canary Wharf.
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Please no more Daleks for a while Rusty/Stephen!
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Oh absolutely; that's why I wish the writers would have done *something* with the fact that Beth in Sleeper was going to become a monster like Lisa in Cyberwomen- they could have at least shown Ianto's reaction to Beth being killed.
'Please no more Daleks for a while Rusty/Stephen!'
I second that. They really need to find a new monster of the week.
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Lets hope they really use them next season.
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Oh, love that scene; it sent shivers down my spine. It could have easily been over the top, but Gareth brought his A+ game that day.
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Yes, it would be nice for Ianto's character to be use/developed more, but I still adore the witticisms and shagging Jack.
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Plus, it was clearly what Gwen and Ianto wanted him to do. Ianto, in particular, possessed what is very likely the only information that could have convinced Jack to stay (because I refuse to believe that Jack would leave them if he knew the full extent of the danger) and he kept it to himself. They let him go.
The Daleks were at Canary Wharf, yes, and who was at Canary Wharf to stop them (and the Cybermen)? The Doctor. So far all that Ianto has reason to be wary of the Doctor, he also has reason to believe that he has much more of a chance of saving the world than they, Torchwood, do. So if Jack, who also has a good world-saving track record, can do more good at the Doctor's side than at Ianto and Gwen's, that's where he should be. Even if Ianto and Gwen have to die for it.
I like that it was Ianto and Gwen's choice.
I'm not sure why they couldn't have had better weapons, though. (And the timelock seems to me to be a nonsensical sort of defense program, but that's neither here nor there.)
I did think that Jack could have shown a bit more concern afterwards, when the Doctor contacted the Hub. He didn't even say hi.
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I also expected more of Jack, Sara Jane cheered like a possessed woman when she knew her son was fine. The only thing Jack did was smile stupidly when the doctor asked about Gwen. Pumping that thingy in the TARDIS must have addled his brain.
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But come on. Time Bubble. Assuming that it only activates when there's a threat in the Hub (who isn't Captain John or Gray, of course-- maybe it was the weapons-fire rather than the incursion), then wouldn't it always result in a situation where they needed to be saved by someone on the outside? Maybe I'm missing something.
And yeah, I expected Jack to be pushing the Doctor out of the way in order to grin at his team, if nothing else. One little exchange: "Everything okay?" "Yep." Sigh. On the one hand, I liked that Jack was so sure of his team that he wasn't even worried, but on the other hand... I think he'd still worry.
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I also don't think Jack was an uncaring bastard for leaving Gwen and Ianto, it's the way Jack's written in Who that bugs me. The big cheesy, smiling way he leaves them to their fate and the way he doesn't even ask after them afterwards, nor give off any hints as he strolls down the park with Martha that he might be in any way eager to get back to them. Jack's a way more blasé kind of guy in Who and again, it's the inconsistency there that gets up my nose.
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That doesn't mean that I don't enjoy dissecting every little thing, but it comes to a point that you can only sit back and enjoy.
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When Gareth was asked at the Canadian Con whether or not he'd be promoted from #5 to #3 on the show now that Burn and Noako have gone, he said "I bloody well hope so"
Either Gareth was being cocky and naive in front of his fans or he strongly suspects that this is going to be the case. He's also said that Ianto has a lot of lines in the first script that he's seen and a bit more backstory, which hopefully all adds up to Ianto getting a bit more priority now that Owen and Tosh have gone.
More priority = more of the Jack/Ianto relationship or more development for Ianto as an individual away from Jack.
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I guess it depends on were the writers will go in season 3. Hopefully it will be an Ianto charged season :)
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The writers have admited writing Martha into a corner in WHO because of her un-requianted love for the Doctor. I bet Tosh was also written out for similar reasons. If Ianto is going to avoid the same fate, they need to develop him away from Jack, as well as with him.
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Exactly!!! The worst is that they actually did have several Big Gus in the weapon room, hanging on the wall! They were either just for decoration or Gwen somehow missed them and went for machine gun instead... a complete WTF moment.
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(Anonymous) 2008-07-18 03:05 pm (UTC)(link)It is a problem of the way Jack is written and directed in DW. Trying to make him more kiddy friendly or something.
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Yeah, it's weird that, because strangely enough, characterisation-wise, he's far more wholesome, or at least far less of a slut, in Torchwood, the adult show. It's bizarre.