tencrush | Torchwood - Exit Wounds, the Jack/Ianto story

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Torchwood - Exit Wounds, the Jack/Ianto story

Okay, I have to admit, I was totally spoiled for this episode, I knew Jack was going to be buried for 2000 years, and I have to conclude that knowing this fact totally made me get my hopes up. I figured that there would be repercussions from the 2000 year thing. I didn't know what those repercussions might be, but I figured Jack/Ianto would either be OVER, or we'd get some sort of on-screen confirmation that this is more than a fuckbuddy thing for Jack. And yes, I KNOW what Jack said in TTLM, and I KNOW there's been lots of hints about how Jack feels about Ianto, but hints can only really carry a story for so long. So yes, personally, I was disappointed there wasn't much going on on the shipping front.

Ianto was very upset, that was blatantly obvious, about Jack being missing, that was played well and it was abundantly clear how happy he was to have Jack back. But, again, I didn't really see much from Jack about where he stands with Ianto. (Have you read the Captain's blog for Adrift, by the way? They seem to be SHOVING it down the Americans' throats, but that's half-canon, aimed at one specific audience, why just there? Why can't we be shown any clarity on screen, seriously?)

Sure, they're not majorly affectionate with each other, and I didn't expect Ianto to fall into Jack's arms like Gwen did, that would have been completely OOC. But I would have liked to have seen a scene akin to the Gwen/Rhys thing on the sofa, just to let us know whether these two crazy kids are still together. As an aside, I think that scene WAS probably filmed and cut, and I think those two crazy kids ARE still together. I just don't think, on the whole, the writing has done a great job of proving that to me throughout the season, and especially not in this episode. Sorry, dudes, but that was a bit fail.

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This kind of makes me pessimistic that we're going to get anything of substance about Jack and Ianto from them, ever. Especially what with the rumors about the direction the show will take next season.

And this is why I have been drowning my sorrows in

ihazastopwatch.

It is my secret hope that somewhere there is a vault with a ton of Jack/Ianto cut scenes in it, and someday someone is going to release them all at once and they will fully reveal the nature of Jack and Ianto's relationship, whatever that may be.

'Have you read the Captain's blog for Adrift, by the way? They seem to be SHOVING it down the American's throats, but that's half-canon, aimed at one specific audience, why just there?'
It's always been like that. I think whomever writes the blog is a Jack/Ianto shipper.

I do wish Jack/Ianto would have had at least one little moment (Ianto breaks down after Gwen leaves and Jack comforts him or something).

I'm very cynical. When putting an episode together, choices are made about what's important to show and what's not. It was important to show Gwen/Rhys. It was not important to show Jack/Ianto even though they could have made time for just one small scene of the two of them together (just like Gwen/Rhys). Maybe they could have cut a few seconds of Quilted Cardboard or JM to make room for it. But of course there was another fanbase to serve with that storyline, so no. That tells me something about the priorities of the showrunners and what they think about the relative importance of that relationship in the grand scheme of things.

While they've been clear enough about Ianto's side of things (because this relationship is essential to his character growth), they've not bothered to show very much of Jack's side of things. So I interpret that to mean it's not really important to Jack as a character. Jack's enjoying it, it's a relationship that helps Ianto grow as a person (which adds another layer of enjoyment for Jack the Saviour), and it enhances their professional rapport but that seems to be it. There's no 'there' there for Jack. I think there was more screen time devoted to how Jack feels about Gwen, frankly. It seemed to be the point of two entire episodes even though I can't claim to understand it.

The fact that the BBCA Blog has much more from Jack's perspective than the show provides looks to me like a blatant exercise of 'having cake and eating it too' because they can give a segment of fandom what they want without having to actually include it in the show itself.

The best thing I can say about Jack/Ianto this series is that Ianto seems to have blossomed as a person and that despite his intense feelings for Jack, he is clearly his own person with his own moral center. That's a very good thing. Jack seems to be getting some pleasure out of his life and relationship with Ianto, so that's a good thing, too. I'm sad that this isn't a love story as I would have hoped (I'm not sure why GDL says it is because general usage of that term implies 'in love' and while Jack 'loves' there's really been no 'in love').

Someone (I wish I could remember who it was so I could credit him/her) said that Jack is a point on the journey and not a destination for Ianto. I think that may have been a very wise observation. If it's a choice between Ianto having no relationship and becoming Owen/Tosh or a relationship with a mentor who respects (but isn't in love) with him, then I guess for now I'll choose the latter. I doubt I'll feel that way for another series because part of me is a sappy romantic and I would like these two to actually be in love. Part of me wants Ianto to have it all the way Gwen is trying to have it all with Rhys. If Ianto remains accepting of a relationship with someone who isn't in love with him, I'll start to worry that he's too damaged to actually want a relationship with someone who makes emotional demands and that will make me a little sad for the character (much as I was sad that Tosh was so damned needy).

But in some ways it's fruitless for me to even speculate because I think TW as we know it is over. With a new showrunner, cast changes (both regular and recurring), and possibly other things going on, they could go in any direction at this point for the future.

Am I really the only person who actually LIKES that they're stringing us along, and keeping things undefined?

I just keep thinking that the death knell for a TV relationship is always the point where it's been resolved, and both the participants and the audience run out of questions.
As long as they keep us interested by not making absolutely everything clear, the relationship will continue, which is what I want to see.

Now, that's not to say that I wouldn't appreciate a little bit more onscreen aknowledgement. I agree that there should have been a Jack/Ianto scene to match/equal the Gwen/Rhys one. Even if not the exact same kind of snuggling on the couch thing.
I'd have liked to see the two of them sharing a drink in Jack's office, since that's been the established "way Jack deals with a close death" thing since the first series.

I do think there's potential in the fact that Jack doesn't let John kiss him goodbye, the way he did in KKBB. He turns and gives him his cheek, instead. He's already forgiven John, so that's not a valid motivation. It's possible that Ianto was nearby (but not in the room), and he was respecting Ianto's feelings.

There are a lot of rumours about how the next series will go, but nothing, absolutely NOTHING is confirmed.
Personally, I think you are all worrying about nothing.....
To change it as radically as has been suggested would be to end it, and the ratings do not warrant it being ended.

As an aside, I think that scene WAS probably filmed and cut, and I think those two crazy kids ARE still together.

DVD extras maybe? One can only cross every crossable joint and hope!

I thought it was an interesting factor that, in that last scene of the three of them, they chose to have Ianto be the pillar of almost hurting himself to keep his feelings on the inside. He stood stock tall, hands in front, so Jack could basically support himself on Ianto while Gwen was a mess clinging to Jack. I know there was a debate on torch_wood that someone thought Ianto seemed so unresponsive=uncaring, but it wouldn't do the others any good to have them all completely sobbing and a mess. When Jack can't be that support, Ianto (who's become in a lot of ways like his understudy) will step up and be that person. He's a guy who needs to be needed at his core and with Gwen AND Jack in tears, they need someone to cling to who will be that model of vague control in order to calm them down. Certainly it would have been fabulous to see Jack and Ianto together ala Gwen/Rhys there but its something we've NEVER seen between them aside from that one convo pre TTLM: the comforting 'our lives are hell so come get a hug' aspect of their relationship.

On the upside, they decided NOT to kill Ianto in Reset, which had been the original plan, so at least there still is a relationship. You do have to build the Jack/Ianto relationship out of little bits of body language mostly. In the beginning of KKBB, Jack kisses John enthusiastically on the mouth -- in Exit Wounds he pointedly turns away, he makes it abundantly clear that he has nothing left for John. What I saw at the very end of Exit Wounds was Jack who'd been crying all night and looked like hell, Ianto literally holding himself together and fighting tears, and Gwen in her own (shallow? certainly not as profound as Jack's)distress demanding reassurance from Jack. In both of those three-way hugs Gwen throws herself at Jack and Jack reaches for Ianto, and for me that illustrates their relationship.

*Waves a hand in the air*

if this is the comment I posted about Ianto, after Lisa's death, appears to stand on the periphery when the demise of someone close is concerned, ie Tosh, Owen, and even Jack (End of Days). I wasn't saying he was uncaring, because by God, his eyes say the exact opposite, I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this.GDL underacts the scenes brilliantly and I love him to bits for it, I was simply curious as to why 'Ianto' does it.

We got exactly what they said we would get, a "slow burn". Jack and Ianto are both still too emotionally damaged for anything more than that, and I'm glad they respected the time it is taking them to heal.

"Ianto was very upset, that was blatantly obvious, about Jack being missing, that was played well and it was abundantly clear how happy he was to have Jack back. But, again, I didn't really see much from Jack about where he stands with Ianto...But I would have liked to have seen a scene akin to the Gwen/Rhys thing on the sofa"

we can probably place the lack of anything overtly jack/ianto squarely on the shoulders of chibnall, who has made it abundantly clear that he didn't want ianto to survive season 1 and was the one to propose killing him off in s2 only to be overruled by RTD Stokes and Jules. if we look at the chibnall stories, they are mostly obtuse in the jack/ianto relationship and heavy on the more conventional gwen-centric bilge.

i honestly think the BEST thing to happen to torchwood will be the departure of chibnall as lead writer. without the chibnall/rtd backroom, maybe richard stokes (the show runner) can actually get things moving along better (and fwt, stokes likes jack/ianto) and get at least a basic show legend built so back stories are at least consistent (oops, forgot, consistency is a swear word at torchwood).

if we had seen anything between jack/ianto at the end. it would have been them sitting in jack's office, maybe staring into space without saying anything. we could have had that instead of kissing quilt-boy (okay, does ANYONE remember where that quilted costume was seen before- i know it was on something, i just can't pull it out of my head. definitely a relic of the bbc closet.)

what little we got of ianto, was well played. i didn't expect emotional binge and purge ala gwen. we're talking about someone that has been through a harrowing experience (tw1) and tries really hard to keep it together. the hint of jack's needing ianto came in the form of each time gwen attached herself to jack like a limpet, jack reached out to ianto- it was kinda like "she's needing me, but i need you."

as for the future of TW. i think we'll see a s3 that's a full 13 episodes. there's no way in hell BBC Wales is going to let both DW and TW go on hiatus for an entire year. they've no choice with DW; but they do with TW. and if they went off air for a year, they'd never have a chance of regaining momentum with the US market- and BBC is very interested in the advertising dollars that generates.

i've read what Barrowman's said about the work schedule for TW; but i can't imagine him trying to walk away from it at this point. yeah, he has a lot of success right now; but its based on DW and TW. so they'll probably negotiate some scheduling stuff with him, and maybe have 1/2 episodes in the season where he's not a driving character. but TW is based around him, and the writers would really need to step up their game to make it a better ensemble drama if they wanted him out.

i know there's a lot of people that want marsters in the cast; but i'm sorry; do we really need rift!spike. please. if torchwood is just going to become buffy uk, i'll give fury a call and see if we can get some royalties (the hoix- please, total knock-off of a buffy monster). then again, i could always use a royalty check *g*.

Oh god, Jack was buried at roughly the same time as Jesus. I don't WANT Jack to be the Gay Messiah.

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unresposiv = uncaring

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