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Torchwood - Fragments, thoughts about THAT scene
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kateorman had a really out-there theory that there were erections involved in this encounter. (No! Surely not! I JEST, KATE.) 
The theory suprised me because it hadn't yet occurred to me that there might be people out there who thought there were NO erections involved in this encounter. Though it does seem the jury's still out on who was most excitable, Jack or Ianto.
But yeah, my theory is that there was MUTUAL trouser stirring going on here. And it's what's finally punched Ianto in the face as to what he's willing to do and what that ACTUALLY means. In theory, with the jeans and the cruising and all the rest of it, sex has always been a part of the plan, but here's where it hits him what he might actually have to do. And, to really bring on the tears: THAT HE MIGHT ACTUALLY ENJOY IT. How much of a betrayal is that?
I think there's a whole other level to this scene which isn't even really about sex at all, and it's about enjoyment and fun. I don't know if you've noticed, but Ianto's having fun with Jack, catching Myfanwy, it's all adrenaline and running around and laughing, and this is a guy who, one would assume, has a cybergirlfriend IN HIS SHED as we speak. One that he's been looking after and is obviously desperate to fix since Canary Wharf happened, and since Canary Wharf happened, I can't imagine this guy's been having much fun. At all. You see, I think it's not just the fact that there's attraction and arousal going on that worries Ianto, it's the fact that he is actually having fun. His whole objective is to save Lisa, the girl he can't live without, and in saving her, or keeping her safe in any case, he may well end up proving that he CAN live without her. Which defeats the object of the exercise. Not only, I think, do his tears signify his own disgust at the levels to which he'll stoop and the fact that he might even enjoy stooping to them, but also every single one of his doubts and fears about whether saving her was actually the right thing to do. Did he do it for her or did he do it for himself? Should he have just let her go? I think this moment of doubt and tears also shows us the point at which saving Lisa to Ianto, who presumably has since Canary Wharf, been running on adrenaline and single bloody-mindedness, starts to become less of a love thing, and more of an obsession. He HAS TO save her now, in order to prove to himself that he did the right thing saving her in the first place and that he's doing the right thing in stooping to the levels he'll stoop to to save her now. He's effectively trapped himself.
That's my take, anyway. Well, part of it. I've had trouble talking about this episode because GDL really, really blew me away with this one, more or less leaving me dribbling on the sofa for a few days. He conveys SO MUCH IN SO LITTLE TIME, again, as always. Awe-inspiring. I think I could discuss this one for MONTHS.
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No more to add. Except that the way Ianto just gives Jack that knowing look in the wood? Gave me the shivers. GDL plays menace a little too well for my peace of mind. And he should never stop.
That warehouse scene... Going from reckless abandon to intense focus (the way Jack tilts his chin slightly, he's practically begging Ianto to kiss him) to realisation, escape and absolute crashing guilt (over Lisa, over Jack) in about five seconds? Holy crap. Excellent work.
Chibnall starts writing us episodes like this and then he leaves for Law & Order: London? Really quite infuriating. Damn.
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Oh yes. I don't think I would like Ianto nearly as much if he was played by someone else, especially if it had been an actor who just got by on their looks.
'Chibnall starts writing us episodes like this and then he leaves for Law & Order: London? Really quite infuriating. Damn.'
I know. I just hope they find a good writer to replace him.
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I don't think for a second Ianto would be anything like he is now if it weren't for Gareth. You can tell they looked back on season 1 and picked up on things he hinted at in performance and fleshed them out. If they'd picked a lesser actor he'd still be hanging about in the background, retconned all the way back to London, or just given a completely unsatisfying death.
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Oh yes. He really did a great job is Series 1, despite what little material he was given (he had a little less than an two hours of screen-time). That is the mark of a great actor.
'You can tell they looked back on season 1 and picked up on things he hinted at in performance and fleshed them out.'
It's so nice that the writers saw all that potential and made use of it :D
'If they'd picked a lesser actor he'd still be hanging about in the background, retconned all the way back to London, or just given a completely unsatisfying death.'
They most likely would have killed him off like they had originally planned.
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I can't remember where I read it but, apparently, Ianto was suppose to be a bit part, and they planned to kill him off during Cyberwomen (that's why he doesn't have a lot of screen-time). Gareth did such a great job with the role that they decided not to :D
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It reminds me so much of James Marsters and Spike that it's really sort of weird especially since JM and GDL seem to be bestest buds.
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The last ten seconds of that warehouse scene were just incredible. To the extent that I couldn't articulate how incredible for a good few days. Gareth has such a grip on this character, and it shines through on screen. It's so fascinating to watch.
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That bit where Ianto pulls away? It got me thinking more and more that it's not the question of when they started shagging that interests me, it's when Ianto let himself be present. You could posit that they started something any time from this moment on and make it believable, but emotional involvement on Ianto's part is an entirely different matter.
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Now that is the big question. I love that the more we learn about Ianto the more questions we have.
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Which is one of the reasons that if anything irreversible *coughcoughdeathcough* happens to any of my gang, I WILL BURN THIS PLACE TO THE GROUND. And I'm starting with you, Russell.
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Me too. I doubt he will kill Ianto off though, Russell has to know that doing that would alienate a BIG part of the fandom. Idf they do kill Ianto off, it would most likely be one of those sci-fi he-was-dead-but-than-came-back-to-life deaths. They have done it with both Rhys and Owen.
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I don't actually believe they would do it, but I'm just preparing myself for the worst. I would love love love if he was gone for some reason or another, just as long as he came back.
Emergency plan of action as decided by
1) Burn this place down
2) Storm BBC Wales
3) Write an epic AU season 3 and wait for the fans turned off by the actual show to come wandering in our direction.
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Yeah. Nobody really believed me way back when, when I said they were having sex from the outset, which is what I personally believe. I think people were too distracted by the whole Ianto/Lisa thing and the obvious implications that he was very monogamous and loyal (like I've said elsewhere, he's the only character never to have been shown or even talked about having casual sexual encounters), which he was and is, but just because he's obviously not very good at casual sex, doesn't mean he won't use sex as a means to get what he's after, it doesn't mean he can't differentiate between sex and love. Although... maybe he does have trouble with that, and maybe that's how he eventually ended up where he's at with Jack. When he became emotionally involved is the most fascinating question that arises from the whole story, and it's a hard one to answer.
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I kind of get the feeling that he fell for Jack a lot harder than he would have liked or could have expected. And I'd guess he was painfully aware of it happening, but unable to stop it. His laying out the ground rules in KKBB certainly plays into this.
Uh... Gosh. I think Countrycide was probably a push in that direction, but I don't think it had happened by TKKS. That stopwatch thing seemed more like something to take Jack's mind off his immortal angst. He obviously cares enough to offer, but he doesn't necessarily admit it to himself. By the time Owen taunts him with the 'part time shag' stuff in CJH, he's tangled up enough to give a reaction. I don't know. I'd really like to pick Gareth's brain on this one.
I think
I love how this episode (while not making everything perfect, but really, what could) tweaks at some of the problems in season 1 and makes a bit more sense of them. It certainly makes things more interesting, to say the least.
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This is just absolutely spot on. I would assume it was somewhere between TKKS (where he was playing a role, I think) but before we got the Brokeback Coat scene, although possibly he never revealed himself to Jack. Hell, it's possible it was TTLM.
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I guess he was distant in KKBB, but whether that was "you've been away and now your hot ex-lover is here" or that he'd never let Jack know how he felt is pretty open to interpretation. That kiss in To the Last Man certainly took Jack by surprise, but then like
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That has to be the most forward, confident moment of Ianto ever.
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I just adore that part. It's as if they are kissing only not.
JB needs more scenes with GDL. They absolutely bring out the best in each other.
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Oh yes. I've always thought that John gives some of his best performances when he has scenes with Gareth.