The Ballad of Russell T. Davies

[tencrush]

I said yesterday how much this guy has ruined Who for me, and now Torchwood as well, and the thing is, I'm sure he didn't MEAN TO. But he did. How did he do that, though? Well, I've been thinking about that, and the thing is, that Russell and I just don't see eye to eye on relationships, and here's why.

There's two relationships that Russell has touted or described using the words "love" and/or "romance" and they are Doctor/Rose and Jack/Ianto. The thing about Jack/Ianto is that Russell didn't really have a very firm hand in the development and depiction of that relationship in Series One and Two of Torchwood, which makes it very interesting to see what happens to that relationship the moment that Russell DOES start to stir that particular pot in Series Three, and it's a very telling thing that happens. The relationship that we so desperately tried to fanwank away as having something of an equal footing about it, as being something of a partnership in S1 and 2 immediately, in Day One of S3, is very clearly depicted as a relationship between a STRONG and a WEAK partner. Ianto suddenly becomes Rose in S2 of Who, unsure of their position in the affections of the other, not even sure enough and confident enough to OUTRIGHT ASK what their position is, and reduced to slightly underhanded nagging about mortgages or the word "couple" in order to try and gauge what the other partner is thinking and how the other partner sees them. The dominant partner is dismissive, cold even, and the questioning party is left to shrug off that coldness and accept what's on offer because this is pretty much it, so take it or leave it. And they take it. Like a bitch.

We know how both of those relationships ended because they ended in exactly the same way, with tears and an unrequited "I love you" on the side of the weaker party. Now the thing about both of these relationships is, and I think that's what many people fail to understand, that Russell really - genuinely - finds this type of interaction romantic. This interaction between the doting, devoted (we as an audience might say "foolish") underdog and an uncommunicative, closed off stronger half, Russell really digs that shit. And when we, as an audience, say to Russell that we find what we see on screen unsatisfying, maybe because we like our romances to be between equals and not so weirdly skewed, Russell really doesn't get why. And so when we say we were missing something in Jack/Ianto, Russell assumes, because he thinks it was fucking romantic, that we think they didn't have enough sex, when that's precisely the opposite of what we were missing. He's not being dismissive, he just doesn't understand our point of view. At all. And he never will. This is IT for him, this is the epitome of romance. Look at Doctor/Jack, the exact mirror of Jack/Ianto, the relationship where Jack is the foolish devoted one and the Doctor is the one being cold and unappreciative and closed. We feel for Jack in that relationship and we hate the Doctor in that moment for brushing his devotion off so casually. (Not as much as I hate Jack for brushing off Ianto, but that's only because the Doctor at least has the decency not to fuck those he keeps at arm's length.) Hell, look at Gwen/Rhys even, again, a relationship where we side with the underdog Rhys and really, when we look at the relationship objectively, think Rhys deserves better than what Gwen gives him (her superhuman rewrite in S3 notwithstanding). I won't go so far as to psychoanalyse RTD, dudes, but let's face it, the lovestruck puppy and the strong silent type, that really is Rusty's bag, baby. It ain't mine. Unfortunately.

Yes, I am angry at RTD for what he gave us in S3 of Torchwood, but mostly, I'm angry at myself for getting my hopes up that Russell would ever be able to step away from this default relationship template and give me something that would satisfy me. He can't. This is the formula that Russell writes to and it's a formula that I, personally, don't like, because I like my romance with a smidgeon of equality. And so, inevitably, I will never like anything that Russell writes. It's never going to work between me and Russell and I've now resigned myself to that. So, yeah. That's me and Russell done. Forever.

On a side note, I believe the reason RTD is so adamant that Ianto is DEAD DEAD DEAD NEVER COMING BACK NO WAY NO HOW, and not toeing the standard keep-em-hooked sci-fi line of "anything can happen, folks!" is twofold. First, I think these are the protests of a man who has been defending this decision for a while now. This isn't the first time it's been questioned, I reckon it's been questioned internally, probably reasonably vehemently, because these are the words of a man who has been digging his big gay heels in for quite some time now, shouting his way out of a corner he's been pushed into once too often. And secondly, he's so adamant about this BECAUSE JACK IS NOT COMING BACK. Jack will exit the narrative in Who, and John's not telling us this because he's still contractually obligated to toe a party line, but mark my words, Jack will leave the story or turn into the face of Boe in Who, leaving us with ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to bring Ianto back. Because Ianto's function in the narrative has only ever been to be Jack's lover and tell us as an audience more about Jack as a person. Ianto's never really been upgraded to his-own-man status in Rusty's eyes, and with the exit of Jack, Ianto will cease to have a purpose in the story, whatever it may be. Those are my thoughts on that Ianto is dead as a doornail thing. Yeah, of course, Rusty's also saying it because he loves to piss off the fanbase, that's like a masochistic thing he's really into, but apart from that, those are my reasonings as to why he's saying that.

I wish I could stop thinking about fucking Torchwood already.

Comments

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

And yet the losses of Owen and Tosh carried on over into the Doctor Who S4 finale, the radio plays, the books, and COE. So, yeah, let's never mention Ianto again. Let's just assume every time Jack has a far-away look or drinks coffee or *gasp* has to get in and out of his coat on his own that he's being affected by Ianto's death. Because this show is all about showing and not telling after all.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

If it does happen I'm going to laugh. I was right about Ianto's death and Gwen becoming pregnant (someone actually tried to tell me that Gwen won't become pregnant because that won't be logical. *Ianto style eye roll*)

[(Anonymous)]

Beside's RTD's outright lie about the coffee thing which I expected this being RTD after all, I was amazed at Gardner's remark about writing not being a democracy. She sure sang a different tune last year with all her talk about Ianto and Jack, or maybe she's forgotten.

But when people write novels, they have editors who go over their work and either suggest, or make changes, so the idea that a writer's idea is the final word isn't strictly truthful. People who write for television are writing directly for an audience. I've bought books I ended up not liking and put them down after a few pages, but the writer still got a royalty. In television, if someone stops watching a series, or fails to pay the license fee or asks their cable company to drop BBCA, numbers drop and so does revenue. If tv executives didn't keep an eye on all of this, they would go out of business, because it is a business, the business of entertainment.

The proof is at Amazon.com where the price of the cd has been lowered again to $14.49, and people are writing that they removed the cd from their shopping carts because they hated CoE, and it wasn't necessarily because of Ianto. A lot of people hated the ending. Julie Gardner and RTD can be as dismissive as they want, the numbers speak for themselves. I just hope the BBC is keeping tally.

[(Anonymous)]

*facepalm* I meant to say dvd rather than cd. Sorry.

[fide-et-spe.livejournal.com]

Thing is, if you write for a living, it is a democracy. What she says is bollocks. As if she or any other producer would commission something that no one would be interested in. As if they don't tell people what to write. It is actually a big lie. A writer can do what they want for themselves, fine, that's writing for therapy. Those big US studios don't let them alone, and interfere all the time to shape it the way they want. It's why some writers, those with a bit of power, won't work for them. It's why JK Rowling was so careful with the films, and turned the US options down. I know screen/telly writers and know how hard it is to keep the integrity of what they write if the studio has different ideas. the stuff Moran and RTD are saying is actually just not true. Also William Goldman, one of the most successful screenwriters, has written books on this exact subject, and how little control he often had when making earlier films, it was the more independent stuff, like the Princess Bride, where he was able to have more control.

Interesting about Amazon! I hadn't bought it, and was going to order it before it aired, just didn't get around to it, and now really don't want to. I feel a bit torn as part of me wants to have Ianto's last eps, but they are repeating it on BBC3, and I have watched the first two, and kept getting bored! Which really surprised me, I loved the JCB bit, but was only half watching the rest.

I might go on the UK one and see what the comments there are. With S2 I own them, and have seen them all at least three times, even the ones with Martha which I don't like as much, I think they are the weakest, but still I find enough in there to keep watching. Most of S1 I can do the same as well, except the pre cyberwoman ones which I find limited, and random shoes as well.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'least one knowledgeable LGBT fan who posted a well thought-out, well researched summary of why CoE looks bad from a Queer Studies point of view'
Do you have a link. I love well researched arguments.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

True, but he could still come back.

[dkwilliams.livejournal.com]

You know, when you look back at RTD's body of work from QAF onward, you *do* see the same pattern. I hadn't thought of that before.

My daughter-in-law who is into several anime fandoms said that Jack and Ianto in CoE were very much like the uke/seme relationships there, including the death scene. Since she's never seen Torchwood before, it seemed normal to her, including Jack being super-depressed afterwards, then standing teary-eyed as his grandson dies. I don't watch the shows she does, but I wonder if maybe RTD was trying to stretch himself and thought that's the kind of romance the "fangirls" wanted.

[tencrush]

I know absolutely nothing about anime or yaoi or whatever, but in that scene with Jack being teary over Stephen, for a brief moment I thought I was watching Pokemon. That's my only frame of reference, but yeah, it struck me as very Japanese comic strip somehow.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'The proof is at Amazon.com where the price of the cd has been lowered again to $14.49, and people are writing that they removed the cd from their shopping carts because they hated CoE, and it wasn't necessarily because of Ianto. A lot of people hated the ending.'
A lot of people also seemed to hate the change in the feel of the show from campy to dark, dark and more dark. CoE really felt like a Torchwood!AU. Mix 24 with Quartermass, shoehorn the Torchwood characters into it and CoE is what you get, at least to me.

[freakishlemon.livejournal.com]

He's oftentimes a bit of a snot, but sometimes he's a cool dude. He's even come up with his own idea on how to bring Ianto back to life, which includes the phoenix-like quality of Janet the Weevil's tears and Myfanwy being a kind of super-pterodactyl. XD

[venusinchains.livejournal.com]

You've probably 'seen' the author in the podcast discussion about the accusations of homophobia on CoE, I remember seeing that much linked in a torch_wood post (and if you haven't seen it, it's linked at the end of the essay, as well). The essay I'm talking about is at: http://36.dreamwidth.org/1746.html and http://36.livejournal.com/818502.html

He does not think RTD is homophobic, but he does seem to think that CoE comes off as homophobic, especially if it's considered separately from the first two seasons.

[lukita.livejournal.com]

Given that yaoi is a genre that was created by Japanese women for Japanese women before their huge switch to re-invent themselves as BoysLove, cause the Western fandom hijacked their term for something very different. RTD completely missed the boat on who were watching his show, if he even researched what his audience even likes in the first place and wasn't just writing to please himself as he claimed.

[lorannah.livejournal.com]

Now the thing about both of these relationships is, and I think that's what many people fail to understand, that Russell really - genuinely - finds this type of interaction romantic. This interaction between the doting, devoted (we as an audience might say "foolish") underdog and an uncommunicative, closed off stronger half, Russell really digs that shit.

Wanted to say this is an excellent post and I completely agree. I think there's another element to the dynamic as well, though it's one that Russell saves for his really 'romantic' couples - it's the idea that the 'strong' partner will only realise/appreciate what they've lost once the 'weak' partner is gone. Hence the big pile of Jack not appreciating anything before hand. Hence the Doctor mooning over Rose tragically for series 3. I half think he sees it as a final validation and victory for the weak half.

[tencrush]

*nods*
Yeah. Whereas we normals see that as an unsatisfactory ending and a crap love story. That thing of you don't know what you've got till it's gone is just a bit... old.

[tencrush]

I definitely agree with this, on paper the whole thing reads a lot more Gwen-like, it's like he drew up the ship before S1, left it to develop in another direction, and then transposed it onto Ianto because Ianto just happened to evolve into Jack's love interest, so he gave Ianto the function Gwen was supposed to have and the feelings and motivations that Gwen would have had in the ship. It's fucking lazy.

[tencrush]

No, but at least I could give Ianto some credit in the Dead Line because he didn't seem to be deluding himself that there was more to the relationship than there was. He said himself that they weren't going to live happily ever after and he didn't expect them to. I NEVER really saw this relationship, up to and including the Dead Line, as an epic romance, I always just saw two guys getting whatever comfort and intimacy and support they needed from each other and more or less leaving it at that. Ianto's sudden coupledom crisis just fell out of the ether for me and I thought it was hugely out of character.

[radiant-pip.livejournal.com]

Yes, old, unsatisfying, and frustrating. Plus, in this case, so doesn't equal the reason for the death as claimed.

Hence the Doctor mooning over Rose tragically for series 3. I HIGHLY doubt we'll get anything like this for Ianto from Jack. I'll be surprised if anybody ever mentions his name again.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Whereas we normals see that as an unsatisfactory ending and a crap love story. That thing of you don't know what you've got till it's gone is just a bit... old

And unnecessary as well, because it works just as well if you only think you've lost the person, and then you get the happy ending when you realise they've survived. Cliched it may be, but it's a lot more satisfactory IMO.

[tencrush]

But only Gwen gets reset buttons like that.

[kelticbanshee]

What can I say. Nail. Head. Been hit. Very accurately.

And once again, I will be linking to this in my "three weeks on, it still sucks" post tomorrow, if you don't mind...

[lorannah.livejournal.com]

Wait... I have seen the error of my ways.

How could I not see the beauty of a relationship where one half gets to be miserable when they're together (and then gets to be dead) and the other half gets to be miserable when they're not, obviously that's the model of a satisfactory...

Nope. It's still utter pants.

And one more thing

[hanuueshe.livejournal.com]

AfterElton is amazing. I wish someone had pointed it out to me earler.

[tucker-liz.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY!!! I watched QAF because my gay boss was such a big fan (and I love a good Brit series), but some of the relationships really disturbed me for their potential for abuse. Gotta wonder about RTD's relationships.