tencrush | I'm not cut out for fandom...

Entry tags:

ianto,
torchwood

I'm not cut out for fandom...

I have epic meta in my head about Ianto, but I can't seem to order my thoughts and I'm reluctant to write anything fandom related because I'm still in one of those moods where the words will come out all wrong and I'll end up coming across as a bitch or something. I honestly never set out to do that, but I do pretty much most of the time anyway, so there you go.

I'm still having this fume over

who_anon for no real reason just because everyone on there seems to think it's full of luls and all I can see is a bunch of people finding reasons to point at and mock other people, and I really don't like it. The first time I was mentioned, when I was called an attention whore, I really didn't feel I'd done anything particularly attention-seeking that would deserve that kind of remark. I ended up getting really upset, not even really because of some anon with a grudge posting that shit, but because nobody bothered to step up in my defense either, so I figured everyone agreed and hated me. I actually debated deleting this journal for a bit, but figured that because of the thirty day change-your-mind thing, I'd probably just end up reinstating it and being called an attention whore over that instead. If you could instantly delete your journal I probably would have. Since then, I've been mentioned a few times, and I'll be honest, most of those times were when I did indeed post something reasonably wanky, I jumped in non-anon once or twice to defend myself, but then I stopped doing that as well. And now I've stopped reading it alltogether. WHICH IS FUCKING HARD, I must admit, the temptation to just mosey in is really high, but the last time I looked (yeah, I'll admit that was a day or two ago, AFTER I said I'd stopped reading it) all I saw, again, was people being shitty about other people.

And now that whole paragraph up there will just come across as bitchy, again, I'm sure. If you're on my flist and you're on the meme, good luck to you. I'm not calling anyone on it a bully (I don't really think it qualifies as bullying if you actively have to seek it out, surely? People will always bitch about other people, that's what people do. I totally get that, I just bitched about other people on this very journal, it's just the anon part I don't really understand.) or a Cult-of-Meanist or anything like that, I'm sure loads of you just go there and have a laugh and that's great, have fun, I'm not judging anyone, I'm really not. I just can't do it, I don't know why. I'm not really a fandom person, I guess, the whole culture just sort of flies over my head most of the time.

So yeah, I have this epic meta in my head about Ianto, but I can't order my thoughts and I think one of the reasons I can't order my thoughts is that my brain is asking itself Why would you want to write epic meta about a tv character anyways? I've reached one of those points in my fannish experience where I really cannot fathom the point of sharing out any opinion or theory about anything because it will just get read and commented upon and is that really what I want? Also, I can't order my thoughts because they're really unordered. And also, I know someone already made a list once of how many times Jack cries in Torchwood and could someone point me at it so I can stop with the rewatching every episode already? It's tiresome and I keep remembering how many episodes I actively dislike. FAIL.

LOL. I'm so crap.

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I think who_anon is a place where people like to let off steam. It's anonymous so it's safe, there's no consequences and as such people who wouldn't dream of saying boo to a goose in real life are suddenly tigers. Yes some of it is deliberate grudge stirring wank but there are sometimes sensible discussions hidden away among the crap. I don't participate but I do read and sometimes it's a nice handy way of alerting me to the people I need to avoid like the plague, sometimes it's highly amusing in a "no matter how bad my life might get at least I'm not that person" way and sometimes I just blink at the sheer insanity of people wasting their lives arguing endlessly about which fictional character is better.

As for the attention whore thing. Harsh definitely. I'm afraid it was the pie watch thing that seems to have earned you the black marks. I think certainly in the beginning you posted it to one comm (although in fairness only one) but I think there was a fanon perception that you were posting it everywhere and actively seeking attentiom. Personally I found it unfunny and repetitive and now every time someone bashes Ianto/GDL fixating on his weight you've become the one to blame for it. Not much you can do about that sort of nonsense except hand wave and ignore it.

I'd like to read meta. Basically, my life is just that sad that I can appreciate the intricacies in fictional characters.

I just looked at that who_anon.

I don't get that at all. If you want to bitch about someone they should have the balls to say it regularly.

It's a really pathetic thing that people have to be anon to feel better about themselves. Most people there who are doing the low blow stuff probably have extremely low self esteem and are making themselves feel better by bitching about everyone else.

I don't think your paragraph about it was bitching about it at all.

If you want to make a meta about Ianto, go for it. If you don't want comments just turn off the commenting option and say I don't want comments or discussion, I'm just using this to organize my own thoughts on this.

Nicole

"all I saw, again, was people being shitty about other people."

Yes, this. This. When I started seeing anonymous memes they were fun, a chance to be silly. Now they're just as mean as you'd expect, a chance to trash other people. STAY AWAY.

I am staying away now, and I feel a lot happier for it.

Can I ask you a random question from my Brit other half, I know you go to farmers markets and the like, how readily available are swede and parsnips in California?

Swedes are called turnips here, and you'll have no problem getting either in a supermarket or farmer's market.

They're a bit "exotic" in the sense that they're considered wildly old-fashioned, but high-end restaurants like to use them.

What are turnips called, then?

Also, would I be able to get beef or vegetarian suet anywhere?

Well, there are white turnips and yellow turnips. One of those is a "swede", I forget which. The other one is probably what you call a turnip.

You can get beef suet. What's veggie suet?

Ahahaha. You have stumbled on one of the great hilarious differences between American and British English.

I'd call what you call a "swede" a turnip or rutabaga. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutabaga
(Isn't "rutabaga" a fabulous word?) They're pretty common. Parsnips are rarer - I'd see them every week or so rather than every day. (I can imagine saying to my husband "Look! They have parsnips!")

At the farmer's market, I sometimes see rutabagas but turnips are more common. Ditto parsnips -- I'll see them mostly at someplace (I have a particular stand before my eyes as I type this!) that also grows carrots, radishes, and so on.

But nobody would raise an eyebrow at your character finding parsnips and rutabagas at the store. If "rutabaga" makes you giggle as it does me, go for "turnip".

Oh, it wasn't a fictional question, it was for my actual other half who likes the odd homemade Cornish pasty and is afraid re our alleged move to San Francisco.

*Not* to worry, believe me. This is foodie paradise. You can find much, much obscure things than tasty root vegetables. And the San Francisco Farmer's Market (Ferry Building, every Saturday) is a thing of glory.

Some call it bitchery, I call it a much-needed reality smack. Or counter-wank, if you will. If people can't handle your awesome, then you don't need to play with them.

I can handle your awesome. Bring it, babe.

And the world needs your Epic Ianto Meta. In fact, now that I know that such a thing exists in your brain, I will not rest easy until I have seen it shown forth into the world.

All there is to it at the moment is some Epic Chapter Titles, it's that random and long. It'll probably take me another two weeks.

Epic Chapter Titles, it's that random and long

That makes my nipples hard.

I'll happily take all the Ianto/Janto meta you can throw at me.

As for fangirls in fandom, they like to bitch.

I hadn't even heard of who_anon until you pointed out your "attention whore" status there. But, yeah, since starting to visit it, I'm less than impressed. I guess I don't really care for anon posting anywhere on lj. Like you said, it's most consistently used as means to insult others with no consequences. (Maybe the site was made, initially, so wank-shy types could make obvious, but unpopular, points without suffering the typical pile-on? But, if they're now naming other lj-ers, they're directing the pile-on; it boils down to an adolescent bitch-fest.)

~

I live for Epic Ianto Meta. I'd love to read what you have to say, here lately. I may not agree with it, but being a shameless shipper sometimes means I'm wearing blinders that I'm not even aware of. It's always good to gather new perspectives.

Whoops. I was definitely happier before I discovered that comm.

My bad for clicking. Also my bad for not thoroughly flocking posts-that-require-context-of, you know, actually knowing me. :P

I'd love to read your meta about Ianto!
By the way, does anyone know of a good comm for reading and posting Torchwood-related meta?
I've seen torchwood_meta but it seems to have been inactive for several months.

I'm sorry you are feeling badly about fandom etc, but I wanted to say that I really enjoy your LJ and your manips make me howl and I hope you don't go anywhere or delete anything. I don't comment much but I read and value you as part of my flist, and just wanted to say don't let the bastards (whoever they are) get you down.

And, um, is it bad that I liked the porno Ianto manip? Or maybe it's just cause I like giant cocks? ;-)

I tried to make another animation out of it where all of Ianto got sucked into his own arsehole, but I'm not talented enough.

I don't tend to dive in to defend folks over there, because doing so tends to perpetuate the topic of 'X from my flist is an arse', and I worry that any positive comment will backfire since there will inevitably be those presuming it's the insulted party anon-defending themselves, perpetuating the topic even more. I didn't dive in to defend myself when I was being reamed for what I still consider a perfectly reasonable sequence of events, because there's just no point.

I do think there are positives about that place: it's not all bitching, and it's made me smile on multiple occasions over the last few months. But ye gods, it's demonstrated a side to fandom (and humanity in general) of late which is plain ugly. I lost sleep over this shit last night, and I'm a reasonably sane and competent human being with a career and a life and all that shiny stuff. I'm actively angry about how several friends of mine have been treated, and I hate feeling hamstrung about expressing that, for fear that I'll just make it worse, or (cowardice alert!) invite even more crap upon my own head.

In other words: I sympathise, I'm sorry you feel undefended, you aren't the only person feeling like this, and I hope it's a temporary fandom-on-hiatus-thus-bored-and-bitchy thing that sort of fades away when there's new canon to pick at instead of actual real live human beings. (And as a side-note to that, I think people tend to be comfy slinging casual mud at you, because your fandom persona is that of a cheery teflon type who will shrug it off. I think a lot of people are assuming that about each other. I don't think anyone alive could be that fucking teflon.)

It's not you being crap. Now go about your daily awesome, please.

Thanks. That means a lot.

I tried to read who_anon once and it gave me a blistering headache. While I get it's purpose, it's not a good thing at the end of the day. Wank is wank, no matter where you put it or even if it's just to avoid wanking off in the wrong place. Wank at someone's expense doesn't make it any less worse anon or not~

And bring on your meta, please!

I like your posts, because I get a sense of the real you. Some people I read are hiding behind so many layers, it's creepy. I'd love to read your meta about Ianto, so please don't go.

I think a lot of our bitching problems can be traced back to one reason - the complete absence of anything new.
If season 3 starts in June then it will have been what, 15 months, since we've had anything new (I am not counting the Lost Souls shit). In anyone's language that's just too long in a vacuum, and I consider it cruel and unnatural treatment by the BBC.
And fannishly, I we have done everything to death now - several times over - and in the absence of anything new except one poster and one tiny trailer - the frustration has tipped over into anger looking for any way to be vented -
My case in point - look at all the wank caused by the poster and the trailer! It's just ridiculous and (would) make us all look like loonies except that I know most of it caused by BBC-induced frustration and anger. And it's only going to get worse as the next few months wear on.

"look at all the wank caused by the poster and the trailer!" - could you expand on that? I guess I'm not in the right places on LJ, because I didn't see any of this. What was the wank about? Just curious.

The poster - which you probably saw in one of

tencrush's posts - has been pretty much analysed and found wanting on all levels of graphic design. My personal dislike of it was that Gwen was in the middle. It's not the Gwen Show and she shouldn't have the prime position.
As for the trailer, there have been many discussions on various comms and journals, including this one (and mine, sigh) that descended into wank because every second of it, every word, look, and action, was dissected and then disagreed on - at length. War wounds ensued - you were probably better off at a distance *g*
And I don't think a lot of it would have happened except that we are frustrated and need the new stuff now.

I'm sure you're completely right about needing new material. I've been enjoying seeing your icons around, haha. I certainly feel that way! I did some of my own dissecting, but not too much I suppose, and my flist is limited. Mostly focused on whether the burned body was Jack. (I'm sure it is, *sob*.) The poster didn't bother me, in fact, I love the 2-pistol packin' Gwen. Maybe I'll journey to your LJ to see more of your argument about that - did you have an entry? I'm curious now.

As an example of the hankering for new material, I was at the NYCC panel and it was absurdly thrilling just to see them setting up the 2 big Children of Earth posters - I think people may have actually cheered when they brought them out - same basic image as the poster tencrush posted, but slightly different design. And then seeing the Confidential-type interviews after the preview, even though they really didn't say that much. It was ridiculously exciting, out of proportion to the material, for sure.

Oh lord, how long are they going to make us wait?!?

Mostly focused on whether the burned body was Jack. (I'm sure it is, *sob*.)

That was pretty much it.

jo02, you're right about the BBC torturing us. Long wait. And for FIVE episodes. WOT? It's just wrong.

tencrush, you do make fandom fun. You're frickin' entertaining.

You are correct, it's wrong on several levels!
By the time we get season 3, if it IS at the end of June, it will have been 18 months since the start of season 2. That's just so cruel - and very conceited - of them. They think we'll hang around forever, like dogs waiting for scraps from their table. It also shows they are more interested in the new - as yet unconverted fans - they think they will pick up whenever they throw it out to the almighty BBC1 channel. Most of their fans are based in the rest of the world, either America, or like me, somewhere else who has to rely on some kind people uploading the episodes ASAP so we can download them.
And please don't get me started on the whole five-hours-and-that's-it-for-the-year thing. That makes me angry enough to get all wanked-up and bitching again (yes, bitching is the new black).

And please don't get me started on the whole five-hours-and-that's-it-for-the-year thing. That makes me angry enough to get all wanked-up and bitching again (yes, bitching is the new black).

Oh, I've been angry about that since it was first announced. So argh. ARGGHH!

""And please don't get me started on the whole five-hours-and-that's-it-for-the-year thing. That makes me angry enough to get all wanked-up and bitching again (yes, bitching is the new black)""

For fans of Ianto, I think series 3 will turn out to be a blessing rather than a curse, considering that his role in this series seems to be more crucial than his role in the whole of series 2. With the shortened cast, Ianto's chance to shine will be bigger than ever. Gareth himself has said that Ianto gets to do a lot more relevant stuff in Children of Earth because of the nature of the storyline.

I've little doubt that Torchwood will be a success on BBC1 - and hopefully Gareth's career will get a boost as a result - let's just hope things are ok with series 4.

This is where you are an optimist and I am a pessimist *g*
I think the loss of Tosh and Owen will also give Gwen a wider venue to shine - as if she needed it.
But I hope I am wrong and you are definitely right. I will keep my fingers crossed I promise.
I also have the sneaking suspicion that if the hub is destroyed completely that this will be the swan-song season for Torchwood. Again, please let me be wrong!
Say something to cheer me up!

I'm not terribly optimistic that the Jack/Ianto relationship will go the way that most Janto fans want it to but I am optimistic about Ianto's development in general. Not only has Gareth taken over from Burn Gorman as the semi-lead, the very fact that there's now only 3 members of Torchwood instead of 5, means that Ianto will HAVE to come into his own. And the partial destruction of the Hub means that Ianto has to be out and about at all times after episode 1.

What intrigues me the most - apart from Euros Lynn talking positively about Janto - is that Julie Gardner has made it clear on several occassions that the dynamics between Jack, Gwen and Ianto are going to change as a result of the loss of Owen and Tosh. It was probably one of their aims for Children of Earth right from the start. I think Gwen will continue to work her way up the ladder during series 3 - a future leader - but she'll sacrifice her relationships with Jack and Rhys as a result, which allows Jack and Ianto to get closer on whatever level that may be.

Gwen couldn't possibly get any more attention than she's already had. :)

is that Julie Gardner has made it clear on several occassions that the dynamics between Jack, Gwen and Ianto are going to change as a result of the loss of Owen and Tosh.

THREESOME!

Yes, please. But... poor Rhys.

Lol, I had my Ianto icons especially commissioned by

love_jackianto to express my frustration at having to wait so long. She does a great job. I thought the poster was okay on a completely stylised way but I think it was aimed to the teenage boy section of the fan base. And I had to ask myself, why was she pointing a gun at the heads of the two male cast. Is she secretly a member of the underground femo-nazi brigade (as they used to be called)? Once you start dissecting the poster it just leads to more and more questions!
Please, go browse my journal if you get time. There is a post each for the trailer and the poster, among other things, that got away from me (putting it nicely). And if you want to add to anything, feel free. All erudite discussion much appreciated.
I was envious of the people that got to go to the NYCC (well, any con with TW stuff), I'm just too far away to indulge these days (I did when I was young and single). I would have cheered too, and probably burst into tears at any new stuff they were willing to throw to us.

Aww, hugs. Dont let fandom get to u. And dont u dare delete this journal! And i luv ur meta, so please write more.

Please write the Ianto meta! I'd love to see it. LIke bandgeek01 said, if you don't want comments, turn off the comment option.

I can't even read who_anon. Not because of bitchiness but it's too fucking long, I have no idea where to start, and no time for wank that does not cater either to my gnat-like attention span or to my actually quite busy IRL.

But - if had I read it, I would have defended you. I don't think you're an attention whore in the slightest, and while I may not always agree with you, you consistently put a smile on my face. You're one of the people who makes fandom fun, as far as I'm concerned.

In conclusion, bitches can STFU.

Oh and PS - META!

Edited 2009-02-12 22:57 (UTC)

So, twice now, I've gone over to who-anon or whateverthefuck *because you mentioned it here* (see what a fucking influence you are?). It's a big bag of wank. Messy wank.

People need something to bitch about, I guess. Gods know I have enough in my real life to make my blood boil (including, oh fuck, you don't want to know), so I absolutely unquestioningly, indubitably now way fucking A do not need it in my fandom. My only fandom. I don't want gay unicorns and rainbows (although I've seen it done well), but I don't want WWIII on my screen, either.

I certainly don't agree with you all the time. Sometimes you piss me the fuck off. I read everything you write.

Now write your fucking meta.

Okay, you know I wasn't done, right? Long-winded.

I think you're getting wank because you present a strong personality here, AND rubbed some other strong personalities as wrong a way as possible with the pie watch thing. You've been branded an infidel, and you will never escape that. People get locked into shit, and that's it. You *could* delete your journal, change your name, and come back as a meeker person who makes a great effort not to upset anybody. You could even write teddy bear and kitten!Ianto fics, and make sincerely awful manips. Or, hey, you could even keep this journal, and create an alter-ego. Please all of the people all of the time. You know there are plenty of people doing that kind of shit. It's the interwebs. But I don't think you want to.

And one of the things that really, really gets me is the fact that all the wank, hate, bitchery, whatever would come to a complete and screeching halt if people met in person. Either they would remember their fucking manners, or someone would get hurt.

Why don't you want gay unicorns and rainbows? You make baby Ianto cri with your anti-unicorn snobbery.

I'm trying! I forgot where it was going.

You have epic Ianto meta and I don't get to read it because of some haters? Nooooo!

I don't know anything about who_anon, but if it's keeping any of your hilarious posts from getting out, I am opposed to it.

Who cares if someone on the internets calls you names? OK, caring a bit is normal... But one person's bitchy is another's funny (and your bitchy is HILARIOUS) so purge that negative energy, have a couple of glasses of wine and GET TYPING PLS KAY THX!1111!11!!!

(And yeah TW kind of sucks ass but I like it anyway, that's just the double-think I've come to terms with.)

Do not under any circumstances delete this journal. It is brilliant to see in writing what I am thinking, and someone who is willing to speak their mind. In my eyes you often speak the truth. Don't let the morons get you down - some people fear honesty.

You should post your meta - I'm addicted to reading them and would love to see yours.

Also, I just took a glance at who_anon and... wtf? What is the point of that place?

I'm the one who counted the times Jack--well, everybody--cried. Here. (http://andreth47.livejournal.com/3152.html)

Oh, and thank you for mocking those horrific manips. Jesus. Somebody had to!

Oh, thanks for the link! Do you mind if I link to you if I ever get round to writing that Epic Ianto Meta that I've kind of forgotten the gist of?

I don't mind at all. And I'd love to read that meta when/if it's done, I like your take on Ianto.

Have you read THIS (http://gospelofbvvt.livejournal.com/6699.html)? Snarky!

Edited 2009-02-27 22:21 (UTC)

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I'm not cut out for fandom...

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Comm for good Torchwood meta

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