tencrush | While I'm disabled...

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God, I have an incredible urge to take a random sampling of Jack/Ianto fanfic and work out the ratio of Jack versus Ianto as to who takes it up the arse. But where would I take a random sampling from? And, mostly, it would only depress me because I think that if I did it, I'd probably prove that, despite canonical evidence to the contrary, Ianto is invariably the crying, helpless, penetrated wife.

I did that thing once where I worked out how many and what sorts of orgasms Rose had in Ten/Rose fic. I think I left it on my work computer, though. I'm sad about that. They were magical and plentiful and vaginal and reading 50 Ten/Rose fics in a day put me off fic for about a year. Which was a bonus.

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I have read so few fics where Ianto tops that I know exactly how many - 3. I'm not picky, but you're right, it's overwhelmingly Jack on top.

I should probably add though, that my "not being picky" means I don't actually look for top Ianto. So there could actually be a community dedicated to fic where he's the top, but I don't know about it if there is.

Maybe I should start one.

Frankly, considering how little fic in the TW fandom is even good, let alone great, I wouldn't really expect too much if you did. Don't get me wrong, there are some brilliant writers who don't write Ianto as a girl with a penis, but for the most part, the fic that gets written isn't even worth a once-over. So sad, because I personally think you can do a lot with Ianto.

Without getting into too much of the details, I think Ianto bottoming nine times out of ten is fairly easily explained.
The slash in this fandom is still predominantly written by women, for women, and whether or not they're even aware of it, most writers will put themselves into their stories. And naturally most of us them relate more to Ianto than to Jack. So it follows that they/Ianto want to attract Jack, win his affections, and then be bedded by him ... which leads to them/Ianto ~~being taken like a girl~~ bottoming.
On the other hand, I agree, that there is just so much of it now that I tend to skim over it because I've read it all before so many times now.
What I do find endlessly interesting and entertaining is that so many of us women writers/readers adamantly prefer to relate to Jack through a male character rather than Russell's adored main female character, supposedly provided to us for just that purpose.

I would so join that comm in a heartbeat!

So clearly what we need are Jack/Ianto writers that also have a pegging fetish. I think I need to write that as a post-Almost Perfect fic.

Put down the mouse and step away from the monitor.

Life's way too damn short to subject yourself to bad!fic.

And naturally most of them relate more to Ianto than to Jack.

Why do you suppose that is? Jack's too Alpha or something?

Edited 2008-12-12 12:52 (UTC)

Yes, Jack's way too alpha. Way, way too alpha. If I think of him from a writer/editor's pov, I hate Jack. If I turn off my writer/editor hat, no problems with him. Either way, still prefer Ianto.

MB

I'd also join.

I agree with antelope there, don't do it. Really, don't do it! Just step away from the computer and pretend the idea never came to you. You might regret it otherwise.

MB

That's interesting, because I don't relate to Ianto (though I don't dislike the character). This is probably why I don't read much Jack/Ianto fiction.

Might start if Ianto topped more, though.

....just came across this fic this morning.
Not bad - dom Ianto, spanking, hand-job, oral, and no anal for a change.

http://mizzclara.livejournal.com/25650.html

dom Ianto (http://mizzclara.livejournal.com/25650.html)

What I do find endlessly interesting and entertaining is that so many of us women writers/readers adamantly prefer to relate to Jack through a male character rather than Russell's adored main female character, supposedly provided to us for just that purpose.

That's because I don't think a lot of us actually can relate to somebody who'd voluntarily drug her boyfriend so she could not feel guilty about having an affair AND could tell said BF she had an affair with essentially no consequences.

Or challenge our boss when our boss's psycho ex-partner showed up, implying that we know so much better than him how to handle the guy he lived and worked with for FIVE YEARS.

Or be so thoughtless and shortsighted and self-absorbed that, when bitten by an alien and finding ourselves pregnant with its alien spawn, wouldn't take the time to figure out what happened and FIX IT rather than sacrifice our walks down the aisle.

I'm jes' sayin'.

Janto aside, you may have noticed it's always Ianto to be on the receiving end in any other kind of pairings: usually it's Owen/Ianto, John/Ianto, The Doctor/Ianto, etc. There's a fic in which everyone, even Gwen and Tosh rape, and then retcon, him.

I may be wrong but isn't it usually the favourite character the one who ends up assuming the female role? It seems to be judging from other fandoms as well. Maybe it's just a case of penis envy on the writers part, they want to shag Ianto so they do it through the other male character, being Jack or any other male.

-quote
What I do find endlessly interesting and entertaining is that so many of us women writers/readers adamantly prefer to relate to Jack through a male character rather than Russell's adored main female character, supposedly provided to us for just that purpose.
-quote

This is a very good point. And kind of prove what I was saying above. It would be normal to relate to the female character, but I don't think in this case it's Gwen's fault. It's the nature of slash, you see, it must be male on male.

On the other hand, even if I strongly resent the idea of Ianto being the girly boy, just because he isn't! it was probably canon itself that put this image in people's mind by the simple fact that Jack was "harassing" him from the very first episode. That put him in a female position.

you most definitely should!

There's a fic in which everyone, even Gwen and Tosh rape, and then retcon, him.

Oh my God yes, I remember that one.

There's a fanficly fascination with Ianto!rape which leaves me wishing I had an advanced degree in social psychology. Half the time it's Jack as the rapist, the other half it's multiple strangers.

I keep trying to figure out why he's so feminized. Is it because he's an emotional guy? Cries and stuff? But so is Jack. Is it simply that he's physically smaller than Jack? Younger than Jack?

As far as canon itself presenting Ianto as feminine, I think "Cyberwoman" does that as well as any fanfic could.

Side rant point: when Ianto is shown having other love interests, they're invariably male; as if he's been magically de-bisexualized by the magic of Jack's penis. With the side effect of being magically de-masculinized as well. He's not apparently man enough to put it to the ladies any more.

Though I have to say I read a LOT of fic, more or less indiscriminately, and I've seen lots of bottom!Jack. No matter how poorly written, he looks good there. At home.

Side rant point: when Ianto is shown having other love interests, they're invariably male; as if he's been magically de-bisexualized by the magic of Jack's penis. With the side effect of being magically de-masculinized as well. He's not apparently man enough to put it to the ladies any more.

That's always bugged me too. I think I've only seen one fic in which Ianto's with a woman after Jack. There's an entire series of threesome stories where jack and Ianto are having it on with a woman, but she's sorta there as accessory to Jack/Ianto than an equal participant, no matter how it's written.

When it comes to Ianto in fic, I don't think any of us will really be happy with how he's portrayed.

MB

Yeah, the number of Ianto!rape fics is alarmingly high. Makes you wonder what it is that calls for sadism there, too.

As far as Cyberwoman goes, I'd say that probably Ianto was "harassed" by Lisa as well :D No really, it' would be interesting to know how things were between them, before. Lisa was older than Ianto, right?

Is it just because he's pretty and desirable, so everyone automatically wants him?

The funny thing in canon is that no female character show the least possible interest in Ianto. No Gwen, Tosh or even Suzie. Nor do the guest characters. No, they all go after Owen. Or Jack. Then John shows up and he's all "eyecandy"...

Good point. John admires/hits on everyone though. Including pets.

Side rant point the second regarding the ultra-feminization of Ianto: child-bearing Jack is canonical, so WHY IS THERE IANTO MPREG??????

Why is there so much MPREG full stop? Like I said in that bumsex post, is fic for this pairing more geared towards writing in romance and trueloveforever, given that the sex is already canon? Jack and Ianto have had more babies than Ten and Rose.

I know I can't. I just find her so badly written that I have no interest in Gwen as a character. Which considering that she is supposed to be the show's gateway character, is a very bad thing.

Oh my God, the cribs and baby clothes, Hub baby showers, morning sickness and swollen bellies, teary-eyed declarations of really real love, tender scenes of prenatal anxieties...

Oh god, why did I get myself started on this topic. GAH.

And yet I've never seen a fic that attempts to answer the one question that I have: what happened to Jack's child?

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