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I was just fucking witcha...
Well, no, I wasn't, but apologies if my last post went a bit rambly and weird. Most you have never seen me rambly and weird, though in fact, dealing with people onna OG has made me go rambly and weird before in the past, but it was always about Rose. Must remind myself not to carry my righteous anger over from there to here, because it make NO sense out of context. Sorry, LOL!
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
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1. The doctor in explaining to Rose that Jack is a little more flexible towards sex than those in the 21st Century "So many species, so little time." I saw that comment more as the Doctor warning Rose away from Jack, he had seen she was quite interested in Jack.
2. Omnisexual does not equate to slut, not once has there been any canon evidence for this in the show, just that he is open to being attracted to different species/people. Those that think it equals slut often think that homosexual=slut as well.
3. He flirts yes, but not once has he ever followed through with someone unwillingly. The flirtation is actually often used to distract someone, get control of a situation/conversation back the way he wants. Capt John did a similar thing when he was there so I see it as a Time Agent trick/training.
4. His flirtation this season has been fairly minimum, ep2 Tosh comments on his flirting and he is pretty adamant that wasn't what he was doing.
5. Longer term relationships - His family back home, fairly traditional family unit it seems - Father, Mother, sibling. He was in a relationship with John for 5 years. He at one stage was married, after knowing that he can't die, he still committed to a woman. Estelle, for a period he was very committed to her but didn't want to hurt her in the long run so broke it off, but still kept an eye on her. So canon back story on Jack shows that he can and has committed in the past.
6. Jack really is looking to be wanted/needed. He hides behind this brash persona but the reality is that he knows he will always be abandoned and how he was treated by the Doctor both times, makes me grr. That is partly why his reaction in Cyberwoman was so over the top. He trusted this guy, let him in on a lot of secrets and that trust was broken. Owen, Tosh and Gwen have all at some stage broken his trust too and he hasn't reacted anywhere near with the anger that he showed towards Ianto. We know that once Ianto gives his loyalty he will follow through often past the point of common sense. Jack is very similar, the Doctor has treated him very badly and yet Jack is still very loyal to him. I would have yelled at the Doctor if I had been treated the way Jack was, but no Jack waits for him and in fact tries to change Torchwood to honour the Doctor. So Ianto and Jack are actually fairly similar.
7. All the interactions between the two show Ianto as more dominant one. He is also the only one that can tell Jack off and Jack will listen and adjust his behaviour. i.e in Meat - Gwen is telling Jack off, does he listen, nope not at all, keeps goading Rhys, but as soon as he asks Ianto if he was showing off and Ianto tells him that he is, he stops it. Jack's response shows that Ianto isn't his fuck buddy, that Ianto is someone whose good opinion he cares for and respects.
Anyone that thinks that Ianto is being pushed around by Jack hasn't watched the show properly and paid attention. They obviously need to be bashed over the head with a blunt object and big words across the screen that "Look here are two guys that care about each other". If you can't pick up on the little things and hints that the writers and the actors are giving us, then go watch an american sitcom, that's probably more your thing, they explain things S L O W L Y and more than once for you to get it. I love this show because I have to pay attention, because I have to watch it more than once. They don't treat the audience like idiots, but as intelligent people who pay attention and want to think.
GDL's recent comments about when it started, he is totally contradicting himself from a much earlier interview which was given just shortly after the completion of filming of s2. In that interview (on his official website) he talks about Fragments and that Ianto didn't quite understand his feelings towards Jack before Cyberwoman, that he was conflicted and that there wasn't anything going on before then. Gareth's recent comments need to be considered within context that he had just been talking about how much he loved the filthiness of fanfiction and was pretty well daring all the fangirls in the room to go write some more involving Ianto felching Jack.
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I think the flirt distraction was something Jack picked up before being partnered with John, I'm sure he knew he was a turn-on for many many 'people'.
I think the problem with their relationship most likely stems from the fact the writers weren't writing a Janto ship in S1 because Ianto was meant to be just in background to be killed off either a) during Cyberwomen b) at the end of the season. Season 2 we've had the whole relationship thrust into our faces not just the sex but everything, Jack telling Ianto he loved him, the whole scene during Adam when he knows instantly something is wrong and figures it out as well as giving Ianto support, Jack's excitement at going weevil hunting with Ianto, both of them stood in the cinema with Ianto explaining what he saw and Jack's just looking at him rather then the screen also add to that the scene in the boardroom when Jack explains a little of his past. All this shows more then a sexual relationship. I think its down to Ianto's closed off personality that he wants to keep this side hidden plus it doesn't damage Jack's mystic to the others.