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I was just fucking witcha...
Well, no, I wasn't, but apologies if my last post went a bit rambly and weird. Most you have never seen me rambly and weird, though in fact, dealing with people onna OG has made me go rambly and weird before in the past, but it was always about Rose. Must remind myself not to carry my righteous anger over from there to here, because it make NO sense out of context. Sorry, LOL!
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
Anyway, I kind of promised to explain what the righteous anger was about, so I'll do that now. As an aside, I AM planning on polling to see how widespread the interpretation of Ianto as just the teaboy/Jack's sextoy is, but it's not even really the fact that it is or isn't widespread that bothers me, it's the fact that the writing has even ALLOWED ROOM for that interpretation to exist that gets on my nerves.
So why does it bother me so much? Well, again, it's a question of characterisation. See, to me, interpreting the relationship as Jack using Ianto as a sextoy has a lot of implications for both characters, and it's why I say I don't think it's doing them any favours. The reason I got angry about it isn't because I'm so hugely defensive about Ianto, it's actually down to a few telling statements, statements that I HAVE heard elsewhere in other contexts, about JACK, not Ianto. And all that comes back to a discussion I've had here and elsewhere a few times, about Jack, and whether or not he is still, at this point in the narrative, the omnisexual slut type that he was perceived to be around the time of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. The fact that the relationship between Jack and Ianto is open to the sextoy interpretation, in my mind, also immediately implies that it is possible for viewers to perceive Jack as THE SORT OF GUY WHO WOULD DO THAT. Harrassment, of a subordinate. Because that's what that boils down to. The thing that got me so riled up wasn't the fact that people think Ianto is the sort of guy that would allow himself to be used as a sextoy (I think that's a plausible reading if you view the show in a certain way, and I think, given the fact that Ianto hasn't really had a major storyline since Cyberwoman, barring the Jackanto story itself, it's understandable that some people might view him that way), it was the attitude of the posters in question, and of people I have spoken to elsewhere, of "Oh, that's just the kind of guy Jack is." Because, really? No. If the storytelling has allowed room for the interpretation of Jack, the leading man, as the sort of guy who would use one of his employees for sex, given all the fucked up power dynamics that that implies, then the character of Jack, with regards to his sexual/romantic leanings in any case, has not been properly put to paper.
And that angers me greatly, yeah. Because Jack, in everyone's big grandiose words is supposed to be this whole new kind of hero for the 21st century. Someone with a progressive and liberal attitude towards sex and sexuality. Someone like you and me (I would hope), who doesn't like to label people and thinks everyone should be free to explore whatever facets of life turn them on. Someone who will serve as an example to that small faction of 15-year-old boys who are squicked by teh ghey, and maybe open their minds a bit. And allowing room for people to see Jack as a guy who just puts it about a bit, who comes on to one colleague, is rebuffed and moves on to the next, really FUCKS THAT UP for me. That's why I was angry.
Am I making sense yet or am I still rambling? The hormones haven't worn off yet, I can never quite tell lately.
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Now yes, Jack is very charming and a flirt. And I think he would flirt with anyone at anytime - that's just his personality, and a defining characteristic of him - the writers for TW can't completely change him from the outset because then, what's the point of having a character introduced in DW become the star of a spin off - especially if you want it to be successful? But, I also think he takes relationships seriously and understands that he is living in the 21st C not the 51st C. I also think he is enough of a leader to realize that merely using Ianto for sex is not going to help his team - and he cares for his team, very deeply (even if that came clear more in season 2 than 1. There are however, episodes in season 1 that indicate how deeply he cares: Cyberwoman, TKKS, Countrycide.) He's not going to mess with the dynamics unless he really wants something more than just a sex toy. While Ianto may be more convenient than say, going out on the pull in terms of being right there, he is not convenient in the emotional sense. There is a lot of emotional baggage between them that could seriously mess up the dynamics of the team. It is one reason I think Ianto made the first move on Jack. Yes, there was attraction from the start, and I think Jack made it known to Ianto that he would be interested - but that is all.
Now having said that, and having rewatched KKBB just last night, I do think the writers have messed up a bit in the way they have portrayed the Gwen/Jack relationship. I think one reason for questioning just how committed Jack is to Ianto is the scene where Jack finds out Gwen is engaged: he is utterly shocked. That we don't have a private scene between Ianto and Jack before then, does leave open to interpretation whether Jack would have actually asked Ianto out on a date if Gwen were not engaged. OTOH, when Jack left, Gwen had just led the rebellion against him (facilitated by Owen) all in order to save Rhys, so I don't think he would necessarily have assumed Gwen was available, even without the engagement ring. Gwen is also allowed to get away with a lot of things that it is not clear Jack would allow others to do. It would have been nice had there been a Ianto-centric episode that had given us more insight into who is he now and how he is with Jack, rather than the glimpses we are forced to parse together from the different episodes.
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That was my interp. Because for some reason, I do read him as someone who would respect someone else's committment. I also never thought it took anything away from the date scene with Ianto. And was frankly surprised to see the spec online about that. Didn't even occur to me to doubt that he'd spent time thinking about Ianto. Or that he had really wanted to try a date with him. I think he spent time thinking about Gwen too. Although, not necessarily in the same way. He probably used every good memory he could come up with to escape the Valiant.
Point being. I wasn't at all confused by the scene or the 'confusing' timing of the two scenes, because I don't thing there was any relation at all between them. I saw them as two seperate relationships. One was an unresolved crush, and the other was (at the time) a mutual comfort/attraction sexual relationship with the potential to be more.
I'm in the seemingly small portion of fandom that appears to view the relationships in a positive light instead of a negative. I think it tends to make me a little annoyed at fandom, occasionally. But I'm willing to bet I enjoy the show more for it.
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