I'M WORKING ON IT...

[tencrush]

Just rewatching some episodes to get some inspiration re. Ianto and what I am now calling his alpha-in-training-ness. Wow. He is the weirdest character, dudes. He's never on screen, he's always physically reserved and he doesn't say much, but when he does he COMMANDS attention, it's way more blatant than I thought it would be.

But anyway, I'm getting a bit distracted, so I'll just post random things in the meantime.

Watch this scene from Day One again.
"None of you have partners?" says Gwen. And LOOK! Jack was totally going to say something and then he shuts his mouth and changes his mind.



He's so doing the teaboy already at this point in time.

Comments

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

giggle ok that was funny - but I will disagree, because if they were doing anything before TKKS then you wouldn't get the "huh" face on Jack when Ianto tells him he still has the stopwatch

Captain Innuendo has no clue about Ianto just was proposing. If he did Ianto wouldn't have to explain it again, more S L O W L Y.

[tencrush]

Seriously, even if you explain that one MORE SLOWLY, it's still not a come-on unless there's a history of them having played some sort of game involving lots of things you can do with something or other. It's far too vague a come-on to be a first-time come-on, and the resulting conversation and "meet me in my office" date implies that this is definitely something that has occurred before.

Furthermore, I still maintain that unless there was a prior sexual history, not even omnisexual Jack would grin so inanely at the idea of jumping into bed with a guy who threatened to fuck him up and watch him die three episodes ago. He might be hypersexed but he's not a complete idiot.

[kurthummel.livejournal.com]

I like your conspiratorial (if that's the word) mind, but the one thing that keeps me from believing they were shagging pre-TKKS, or even pre-Cyberwoman, was the part from the lunch table in 1x02 when they talk about Jack's orientation. Ianto says he doesn't care in that very precise way - "And I don't care." But then again, this is bisexual, post-Fragments Ianto, so who knows?

[nightspring.livejournal.com]

Heee! And right after that, Gwen asks what they all do to relax, and Jack of course is thinking, "Ianto." :D

Joking aside, I keep waffling over exactly when J&I actually started having sex. The list of all possible points they could have started and the pros and cons for each point gets pretty complex quickly!

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Ianto and what I am now calling his alpha-in-training-ness.'
That is so true.

'Jack was totally going to say something and then he shuts his mouth and changes his mind.'
0_o he so is. That's what I love about this show, they don't hit you over the head with thing, you have to figure it out for yourself.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'The list of all possible points they could have started and the pros and cons for each point gets pretty complex quickly!'
I tried to figure that out once, it made my head hurt more than when I tried to figure out Jack's timeline.

[flowright.livejournal.com]

Well one could presume that Lisa's definite death by Jack would have frozen a tiny bit any relationship whatever they have on going.

When you think about Ianto's level of treason (and IMHO, Jack got one hell of a bitch slap and maybe realized that Ianto more or less turned him into a rapist since at that point it's all fake for Lisa's sake for our captain's POV), for Jack to be so happy (and boy he couldn't even wait the end of the day he had to get ride NOW of the others) to resume their affair, it's either Ianto is SPECTACULAR in bed or Jack's seriously hooked.

My humble opinion anyway ♥

[tencrush]

This IS indeed, bisexual, post-Fragments "51st century pheromones" Ianto, who also says he thinks Jack was with the CIA, when he knows full well where Jack is from and knows he'll shag anything and has even USED that fact to his advantage in getting the job in the first place.

And the "I don't care" is such a blatant, and very carefully placed and vehemently stated conversation killer, it's frightening. It's not the last time Ianto seems to know EXACTLY what to say to get people to do what he wants, or get his point across, I even had a brief theory during series one that if Ianto had studied anything, it was psychology. See also the "I clean up your shit" speech, which is again a hugely well-placed blow to Jack, and it's Ianto hitting Jack precisely where he knows it'll hurt (and I maintain it hurts more, because there was already some involvement between them on a sexual level, and STILL Jack had never bothered to ask him about his life.)

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

He might be hypersexed but he's not a complete idiot.

Oh I dunno, he employed Gwen didn't he? :)


I pretty well got the implication from Ianto the first time he said it and I wasn't spoilered as I hadn't found any discussion places about TW when I watched the series the first time.

Jack has talked about all the things he has done before and the games he has played in front of the team, he's not shy about it. Why the grin from Jack? He finally gets to jump Ianto's bones that he has wanted to since he first employed him.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

I can see your point here - it's why I don't believe anything of Ianto's 'facts' that were revealed in Fragments. I think there is much more to him than we have been told. He was much more than a junior researcher at TW1 in my opinion.

He's almost as good as Jack and John at deflecting conversations/questions . Jack and John do it via flirting, Ianto uses pithy little statements.

[kurthummel.livejournal.com]

I always love the points you make. I think that's why I generally dig reading your TW posts, they always seem to align with my thoughts, I just can never verbalize the way I feel.

Anyway, I shouldn't be shocked Ianto would be doing so much bluffing business given he was HIDING A CYBER GIRL IN THE BASEMENT. It's a funny thing to have a giggle on, though, when you look back. From episode one, the bisexual streak within Ianto was really cemented, which is why I personally think Jack/Ianto are one of the most interesting elements on TW. Their attraction has never been in-your-face and obvious like Jack and Gwen. It's been winknudges, stopwatch innuendo, little bits with a hockey stick, and the occasional make out session. Every week, too, we get a new Captain's Blog (which I do regard as canon), though let's not even go on about that one. I'm of the opinion, too, that the writers often times shove the Jack and Ianto crap in the entries and leave the frolicking within the actual show ambiguous and empty. Don't think they should be eyeballing each other or Gwen and Rhys, but I'm falling into that stage, again, where I'm just sort of not satisfied, especially since Jack was buried for 1900 years and didn't show any ramifications.

[tencrush]

Jack is SO seriously hurt by Cyberwoman, I've always assumed that apart from the obvious, this was because A)just the simple fact that there was someone else and B)he thinks he's been played, sexually when in fact he's fallen for Ianto a bit and the idea that there were no feelings involved on Ianto's part really hurts him. I've always taken this scene to be Ianto's admission of what we saw in Fragments (even before Fragments aired I took it this way, funnily), that he WAS using the sex card on Jack, but NO, there WERE feelings there, and he DID like it and there WAS more to it than Ianto distracting Jack sexually.

[flowright.livejournal.com]

Ianto and what I am now calling his alpha-in-training-ness

After reading your posts on the doctorwho board, I can't wait to read your essay <3


He's so doing the teaboy already at this point in time.
Bought the french dvds a few days ago and I saw it too... It looks like Jack considered talking but stop himself (maybe the joke he was about use wasn't funny enough)

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'...where I'm just sort of not satisfied, especially since Jack was buried for 1900 years and didn't show any ramifications.'
Yeah. I get the feeling that if they even mention it in Series three it will be glossed over.

'Every week, too, we get a new Captain's Blog (which I do regard as canon), though let's not even go on about that one. I'm of the opinion, too, that the writers often times shove the Jack and Ianto crap in the entries and leave the frolicking within the actual show ambiguous and empty.'
I know what you mean. I would have loved a scene like the one in the Captain's Blog for Adift where Jack said he held Ianto as tight as he could.

[tencrush]

He was, I was looking for something else from this episode, but I got distracted by this scene and Jack's intake of breath which I had never noticed before. I maintain he was going to say "Well, Ianto and I fuck on occasion, does that count?" IN MY MIND, anyway.

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

So, I am playing Ianto in an RP now. And my ENTIRE CHARACTERISATION of him is going to be based on your meta.

JUST SO YOU KNOW.

[nightspring.livejournal.com]

Cyberwoman really confuses me on the "have they or haven't they" question, because if I look at Jack, I totally see what you see. But when I look at Ianto, I sense absolutely no guilt or defensiveness on his part for loving Lisa. I mean, if Ianto had been having a sexual relationship with Jack under false pretenses before Cyberwoman, wouldn't you think there'd be some guilt on his part for deceiving/betraying Jack in that way, in addition to just hiding an "enemy" within Torchwood?

[flowright.livejournal.com]

Definitely more B than A but you never know because Jack loves to Joke, but he strikes me as a "OTP" kind of guy (except he can't die anymore so he dogpiles his One True love ones in a corner of his mind labelled precious memories)

but NO, there WERE feelings there
Exactly, and I'm sure Jack and Ianto did work out that point later on. No way they didn't, Which In mind lead to a reset of whatever they had and Adrift's episode where it looks like they're in the middle of the first hot phase of a happy something when they actually start doing each other 2 years ago.

But Jack during the Cyberwoman's events seems so angry, so hurt, he probably thought that Ianto didn't love him at all.

BBC,
More stuff on-screen please...

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% with all of this, especially the second paragraph. I was still unsure after S1, although it was the only thing that made sense even then, but after Fragments, definitely.

What's really noticeable about the stopwatch scene is that Ianto seems pretty sure that Jack (who'd have just as much reason to be still pissed off and not wanting to shag the guy who played and used him like that) won't turn him down, and that Jack is actually surprised - and genuinely pleased, like this is Ianto's way of saying that he's willing to forgive him, and he hadn't expected that.

[flowright.livejournal.com]

I saw some bitterness on Ianto's part.

Ianto : ...No questions asked and that's the way you like it

I always saw that part of the quote as sexually connoted. Ianto is saying that sleeping with Jack did bring its part of disillusions. He's clearly hurt that Jack was the style of guy dumping you out of his bed at 3am and not worrying about finding a cab for you.
I'm sure he never asked what Ianto was doing in the middle of the night in the hub (knowing oblivious!Jack, he probably thought Ianto was here to get him)

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

Plus the look on Ianto's face when Jack brings him back with that kiss.

It starts as a 'kiss of life' in a way, then Jack's hand slides down Ianto's neck, into his shirt a little bit, and it then becomes so much more on Jack's side. Ianto comes back and responds, but then opens his eyes and realises that it is Jack kissing him and the look of utter shock on Ianto's face tells me that there wasn't anything physical before then. Then he just gets plain angry and does everything possible he can to hurt Jack, wether it is physical (the punch) or words (which he is very good at).

Jack's anger is at being conned, being strung along and the fact that the tea boy managed to hide himself and a Cyberman in his basement. You see in Fragments how upset Ianto is when he realises that he is attracted to this man and that he forgot Lisa.

[ianto-jones.livejournal.com]

Yeah, like HE'S not based on my meta, dude.

I should do some meta on why I also think Ianto is INCREDIBLY HORNY ALL THE TIME, because that must come from somewhere. And not just from me being incredibly horny all the time.

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

Sorry to drop in like this - he's not guilty or defensive, but on the other hand he's genuinely angry and hurt that Jack doesn't care for him more than he did ('When did you last ask me anything about my life'), and uses this to put Jack on the defensive, which surprisingly even works, because that's when Jack calms down and puts away his gun. I think in his mind he justified sleeping with Jack by telling himself that he was doing this to protect Lisa, and justified betraying Jack (and I think he saw it less of a betrayal, because he was so absolutely convinced that he was doing the right thing) by believing, rightly or wrongly, that he didn't mean anything to Jack.

[tencrush]

Yeah, I had this discussion earlier, even in Everything Changes we see Ianto in the Hub at night, in Jack's office no less, with Jack's full knowledge, while we cut to everyone else at home with their alien devices and Jack in the pub with Gwen. It's not like it wasn't known to Jack that Ianto had no life outside the Hub, it was established in the first episode. He just never asked why.

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

I am intrigued and only mildly bemused by this theory!