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How they killed my Janto, dudes.
I'm still full of hate after Something Borrowed, and I'll attempt to explain why.
In Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, we were given a promising glimpse of Ianto-with-a-spine. He basically stated he wasn't interested in being Jack's part time office shag and wanted more, or no deal. Jack seemed to be au fait with this and looked to be pursuing the relationship. My little shipper heart went YAY, and that didn't really change, especially after To The Last Man, when I, along with everyone else in the world, pretty much saw what appeared to be a declaration of love from Jack. OMG WOW. Then... what the fuck happened?
I started to develop hate when Ianto said he and Jack 'dabbled'. While I could defend Jack's trying to hide the relationship based on what he said in Meat (he has an emotional investment, it makes you vulnerable, and he really shouldn't be forming EMOTIONAL bonds with his team, because it affects his abilities as their leader, yeah? Fine.), here, though, we suddenly have Ianto downplaying what I had assumed was an emotional attachment to Jack, and why? Dead Man Walking, again, shows Ianto on the defensive with regards to the relationship. "It's not like that", right, OK. Funnily enough, Ianto seems too unsure to expand and tell Owen what it IS, in fact, like. He's become almost apologetic, and why? Oh, roll on Something Borrowed, HERE'S WHY! He's IN LOVE. He's a lovesick puppy, thinking about wedding dresses and looking to settle down. If there's one thing we know about Ianto, you see, it's that he is wickedly loyal, faithful and, one would assume, MONOGAMOUS. Yet suddenly, since Adam, the relationship seems to have taken a turn into roleplaying toy-based sexamalympics. There's been no emotional connection since the kiss in TTLM. What bugs me is that Ianto is shown to be perfectly satisfied with this turn of events. It's almost like the Date Conversation never happened.
Now, I can buy that Jack is capable of loving more than one person. I can buy that Jack loves Gwen. I can even buy that Ianto is perfectly happy to know this and not care. That all makes perfect sense to me. What I can't buy is that Ianto has become such a lovesick boytoy, so impressed with Jack's avant garde sexual prowess, that he is happy to settle back into his role as office based shag, taking whatever nuggets of affection Jack sees fit too throw his way. And it's not Ianto's character making me think that that's how the relationship has progressed, it's Jack's, yet again. Jack, who makes these grandiose declarations about the nature of love to Gwen. Jack, who pines after a long dead wife. Jack, who we thought perhaps was a bit more flexible when it came to who and how many people he gives his heart to, who is QUITE OBVIOUSLY showing us that he believes in OMGONETRUELOVE, and between the lines quite blatantly showing us that Ianto isn't in the running. NO AFFECTION, throwaway lines about red caps and "doing Ianto", that's no longer a guy trying to hide the fact that he's in love with one of his subordinates, that's an omnisexual slut, not at all embarrassed about what he and the teaboy do with hockey sticks. AND I WOULD BE FINE WITH ALL THAT. If it weren't for the date conversation telling me that Ianto wants more, and Ianto's fawning in this episode blatanly telling us HE IS WICKED IN LOVE WITH JACK. Why is he settling for this? What have they done to my boy? Who said in the first episode that some fetishes should be kept to yourself? How many fetishes have he and Jack been broadcasting to the world since Adam? There's something so OFF in this relationship, and I think it's something you either see and hate or you just don't notice AT ALL.
One of the things that squicks me is Jack's flippancy about past conquests (all male, have we noticed yet??) and his obvious love for Gwen and DeadWife. It's almost like the implication is that while dabbling and sexual gymnastics is something Jack does with men, settling down is something he does with women. And Ianto and that dress? Just makes me feel like Jack hasn't yet let Ianto in on that fact, and the joke's on him. Ha ha.
NONE OF THE ABOVE MAKES ANY SENSE, I AM AWARE OF THAT, I JUST CAN'T PUT MY FINGER ON WHAT IS WRONG IN JANTOLAND. I JUST... HATE IT.
In Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, we were given a promising glimpse of Ianto-with-a-spine. He basically stated he wasn't interested in being Jack's part time office shag and wanted more, or no deal. Jack seemed to be au fait with this and looked to be pursuing the relationship. My little shipper heart went YAY, and that didn't really change, especially after To The Last Man, when I, along with everyone else in the world, pretty much saw what appeared to be a declaration of love from Jack. OMG WOW. Then... what the fuck happened?
I started to develop hate when Ianto said he and Jack 'dabbled'. While I could defend Jack's trying to hide the relationship based on what he said in Meat (he has an emotional investment, it makes you vulnerable, and he really shouldn't be forming EMOTIONAL bonds with his team, because it affects his abilities as their leader, yeah? Fine.), here, though, we suddenly have Ianto downplaying what I had assumed was an emotional attachment to Jack, and why? Dead Man Walking, again, shows Ianto on the defensive with regards to the relationship. "It's not like that", right, OK. Funnily enough, Ianto seems too unsure to expand and tell Owen what it IS, in fact, like. He's become almost apologetic, and why? Oh, roll on Something Borrowed, HERE'S WHY! He's IN LOVE. He's a lovesick puppy, thinking about wedding dresses and looking to settle down. If there's one thing we know about Ianto, you see, it's that he is wickedly loyal, faithful and, one would assume, MONOGAMOUS. Yet suddenly, since Adam, the relationship seems to have taken a turn into roleplaying toy-based sexamalympics. There's been no emotional connection since the kiss in TTLM. What bugs me is that Ianto is shown to be perfectly satisfied with this turn of events. It's almost like the Date Conversation never happened.
Now, I can buy that Jack is capable of loving more than one person. I can buy that Jack loves Gwen. I can even buy that Ianto is perfectly happy to know this and not care. That all makes perfect sense to me. What I can't buy is that Ianto has become such a lovesick boytoy, so impressed with Jack's avant garde sexual prowess, that he is happy to settle back into his role as office based shag, taking whatever nuggets of affection Jack sees fit too throw his way. And it's not Ianto's character making me think that that's how the relationship has progressed, it's Jack's, yet again. Jack, who makes these grandiose declarations about the nature of love to Gwen. Jack, who pines after a long dead wife. Jack, who we thought perhaps was a bit more flexible when it came to who and how many people he gives his heart to, who is QUITE OBVIOUSLY showing us that he believes in OMGONETRUELOVE, and between the lines quite blatantly showing us that Ianto isn't in the running. NO AFFECTION, throwaway lines about red caps and "doing Ianto", that's no longer a guy trying to hide the fact that he's in love with one of his subordinates, that's an omnisexual slut, not at all embarrassed about what he and the teaboy do with hockey sticks. AND I WOULD BE FINE WITH ALL THAT. If it weren't for the date conversation telling me that Ianto wants more, and Ianto's fawning in this episode blatanly telling us HE IS WICKED IN LOVE WITH JACK. Why is he settling for this? What have they done to my boy? Who said in the first episode that some fetishes should be kept to yourself? How many fetishes have he and Jack been broadcasting to the world since Adam? There's something so OFF in this relationship, and I think it's something you either see and hate or you just don't notice AT ALL.
One of the things that squicks me is Jack's flippancy about past conquests (all male, have we noticed yet??) and his obvious love for Gwen and DeadWife. It's almost like the implication is that while dabbling and sexual gymnastics is something Jack does with men, settling down is something he does with women. And Ianto and that dress? Just makes me feel like Jack hasn't yet let Ianto in on that fact, and the joke's on him. Ha ha.
NONE OF THE ABOVE MAKES ANY SENSE, I AM AWARE OF THAT, I JUST CAN'T PUT MY FINGER ON WHAT IS WRONG IN JANTOLAND. I JUST... HATE IT.
no subject
'Gwen bashing' is such a harsh term and all too readily banded about in TW fandom; once you're branded you're seen as irrational, a misogynist, or worse. That you can't seperate the actor from the role, or any criticism of the character or of the performance is anathema.
But I admit, I loathe the charcter of Gwen. And your point above, to me, is the heart of it all. I could happily see Jack paired with just about anyone in the DW/TW canon- and even a few characters who haven't been invented yet; but I can't for the life of me get a grasp on what Jack sees in Gwen that amounts to his love for all space and time.
Naysayers will comment that there is nothing stating that Jack's love reserve is saved only for Gwen; but I think the more cynical of us know better, at least in the direction that the show is headed and with the statements of Chibnall and others. This isn't spoken as a Jack/Ianto shipper- hell, remove Ianto from the equation altogether; someone else would be the roadblock, the part-time shag.
I've spent considerable time in my head trying to churn over this, and I've yet to come across a non-ship, reasonable and throughtful meta that makes a decent argument for. Granted part of that is not having all the puzzle pieces laid out, but still. How can TPTB want to shove their effervescent lead into this narrow little story arc and then announce to the fans and media that a Jack and Gwen coupling will always be there, always be the end game? Rhys is a goner, sooner or later. Regardless that Gwen 'chose' him, simply remove him from the equation and we're back at square one. once again, Ianto is inconsequential.
Sadly I think it means having to throw all of DW/Moffet Jack and everything TPTB have attempted to sell us on about him out the window. That he was never intended to be a cheeky sex god, that his heart is actually a very small, unencompassing one, and that (here comes the vomit) were they to remove his immortality, he would either end the show dying in Gwen's arms, or they would fly off together into the double sunset.
So yeah, thanks for your post and agreed.
no subject
"I think it's pretty interesting to see that everyone (though I do admit I haven't read all the comments in detail) seems to think that Rhys and Gwen getting married is the end of Gwack and confirmation of an essentially platonic relationship between the two. In addition to the fact that we know Gwen clearly has no problem with infidelity, I see their marriage as a the death knell for Rhys, actually. There's no way Rhys makes it out of season 3 alive, and I'm really only 50-50 about him making it out of the next three episodes without a fat retcon-sponsored divorce."
So, triple agreed.
no subject
no subject
I am not the sort of fangirl who bounces from fandom to fandom; I don't even really watch Doctor Who with anywhere near the depth of interest I've developed for TW. (Years ago, I loved Buffy-Angel because I think Joss Whedon is a frickin' genius, but that's it. I haven't even seen any of season 1 of DW, and certainly none of the older episodes.) I started watching DW in season three, casually, because I've always enjoyed David Tennant; then TW by extension, mostly because I thought John B. had the most gorgeous smile ever.
But, it was absolutely all the gleeful kissing and "shocking" innuendo that got me hooked, and then I fell in love with Ianto-Jack. (But, there's been a distinct lack of *gleeful* -- or gratuitous, charming, passionate-- kissing this year.)
As a rule, I've absolutely always been incredibly supportive of the bi and gay community (historically, many gay friends), big on the gay rights (was a part of organizations in college and always consider same sex marriage a factor when supporting political candidates), but I've never been into the man love as I've become emotionally invested in the two of them. Like, I've seen gay couples and thought they were terrific, and been happy to see healthy gay characters portrayed positively in the media, but for the first time ever, I am genuinely turned on by mansex. ***I AM HOT for Janto***. They are so goddam porn efficient I cannot even say.
So, when a person like myself sees all this amazing potential (you hit the nail on the head there) going to waste, it just disappoints the hell out of me. To be honest, if there is no Ianto-Jack, I really don't see any reason to watch the show. In all honesty, I don't think it's consistently well-written enough to hold my interest. You don't even get as many great eps as you do with DW (like, there was a string of four or five eps of DW S3 that blew me away, including Blink, Human Nature, Family of Blood), and those were enough to buoy me when things with Martha and the Doctor didn't work out. Thus far, I haven't really seen that with TW. Up to now, KKBB is probably the best episode, followed very closely by Random Shoes (which barely features any TW cast), but, at *best*, they are 50-50 when it comes to episodes that are worth an hour of my time.
It probably taints the validity of my comments that I feel that way about the show, but, at heart, I'm a ridiculous romantic. And a strong -- be it tragic, sweet, doomed -- central relationship between two characters that I like is why I get hooked on any show. In this case, I really, really want Jack and Ianto to get their act together. If that goes away, I might stop watching. Or, I'll continue to watch casually, but I sure as hell won't be an active member of the fandom.
So, to make a long story only marginally shorter (and I'm sorry for the length of this reply, BTW), yes, it makes me sad. The thing is, don't we all have enough of things not working out the way we want them in real life to put up with it in our TV shows? I mean, if I wanted a totally awesome person to end up with a broken heart by someone who inexplicably did not appreciate how wonderful they are, I'd just sit around and think about my own love life. ;)
no subject
The wasted potential makes me sad.