tencrush: (ninja teaboy)
tencrush ([personal profile] tencrush) wrote2009-07-13 06:12 pm
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Children of Earth: My verdict

This will probably be an incoherent list of thoughts about CoE, just to get it out of my system so I can move on.


OBSERVATION THE FIRST:
IF I WERE COMPLETELY CONVINCED THAT THERE IS NO SEASON FOUR, I'D PROBABLY BE A LOT HAPPIER ABOUT SEASON THREE. A lot of people praising it into the heavens are calling it a swansong and saying their teary goodbyes to Torchwood, and I think a lot of the people who aren't doing that, aren't doing that because they think they've been set up for GWEN COOPER: EARTH DEFENDER. Look, the thing is, I, like many others, am a cynical person. And I don't hate Gwen, and I don't think she interferes with Jack/Ianto (which I never really shipped anyway, I think Ianto could do better), I thought she was kickarse and good in series three and I didn't think she was all that bad in series two either. But there was a story Russell wanted to tell. In order to tell it, Ianto Jones had to die. He had to die because having a man by his side who had such an unwavering faith in Jack's goodness would have rendered Jack incapable of making the sacrifice he had to make. He didn't have to die for any other reason, there was no plot-related reason as to why Ianto was in that room, without protection, there was one, authorial, reason Ianto was in that room, and that is because Russell wanted Ianto to die. For those of you who haven't heard of it, it's a rather cheap and nasty thing called refrigeration. A death that has no reason apart from that of spurring the hero into action. Chick, or Ianto, gets killed by alien virus, tortured hero finally stops being angsty and tortured, takes his finger out of his arse and does what needs to be done. Completely pointless, except for the part where it was pivotal and crucial to the total destruction of the character of Captain Jack Harkness. So, yeah. In a way, I understand that, a really cheap way to get to the ultimate goal. It's just that, the more you think about that, the more difficult it becomes to understand why Russell T. Davies felt the character of Captain Jack Harkness needed to be demolished so totally and utterly. I can understand wanting to tell this reasonably well-crafted, undoubtedly critically acclaimed, dark, depressing tale. But why butcher THESE characters to do it?

A funny thing happened in Day Five. (Apart from the funny funny joke about dead Ianto being GAY, lol.) The story reached a point where I no langer cared about any of it, and even as I was watching, I started to step out of the tale (which had been ENGROSSING, from day one up until Frobisher shot himself in day five) and wonder what the hell was going on. Where was this going? Why is Russell going here? What is he trying to tell us? Why is he destroying this character? I literally fell out of the story about 15 minutes before the end, which is why I posted that LOLOLOL reaction about Jack flying away, because I just didn't understand what the hell was going on anymore. Ianto's dead. Jack is broken. Gwen has lost faith in humanity's goodness. Not enough to not want to put a child on this earth, but only by the narrowest of margins. Why? And, even while I was watching that cynical part of my brain said Oh. I get it now. There IS a series four and it's that Rose Tyler: Earth Defender thing that Russell's always wanted to make, but with Gwen Cooper, and in order to be allowed to make it, he had to A)get the ratings B)at Moffat's request, sever the ties to Who by getting rid of Jack and C)get rid of teh ghey. Now, of course, that's not true. Right? But that's what my brain was thinking even as I was still watching the story play out. I ceased being able to be affected by the story and became obsessed with the actions behind it and the question of WHY the story was being told. And apart from that cynical reasoning, I can't really think of any other reason. Maybe there's another reason in there somewhere. I don't know. All I know is, before the story had ended, my brain was already saying FAIL FAIL FAIL.

IT'S GUY LOVE BETWEEN TWO GUYS!!!
Man... that was good, wasn't it? Remember how Russell touted this relationship between Jack and Ianto around as being groundbreaking and boundary pushing and wow, we're trying to give people a whole new groovy and relaxed outlook on sexuality? Lol. That was funny, wasn't it? How many SHINY NEW VIEWERS did series three get, guys? People who had never seen this show before? What did we teach these FEW MILLION people? Ianto WAS A GHEY. For those of you who didn't get it from the "bender" and "gayboy" jibes (which meant "We love you anyways you daft git", and were thoroughly well-written, absolutely necessary in terms of character and the establishing of how much Ianto's family loves him), we've upped you a "QUEER!" and a "WAS HE GAY?" for good measure. We've rewritten him as a standard-by-the-book-dramatic-gay, he's unsure of himself, he comes out, he gets insulted, he's suddenly doing all those things the gheys in soap operas do (Man, I remember a time when Ianto said "and I don't care" What the fuck happened to that guy?). And then we kill him, obviously, because the gay must die. It's a lovely, lovely message for those shiny new viewers of yours, Russell, and it's one I hope you get called on again and again and again until the day you die. Fuckwit.

There are several aspects to this "love story" that are disturbing to an uncomforatble degree, one of which is better articulated by [livejournal.com profile] xtricks here, read the whole thing, and it's that "men don't say they love someone - not unless one or the other is dying," and, as commenter [livejournal.com profile] lawsontl says in the comments of that post "The "love story" we were hyped up on by Euros and RTD, it was bait and switch. Jack/Ianto getting their last chance at intimacy blocked in a joking scene about beans is not a love story. Being shown that they still have trouble communicating with each other, right to the very second Ianto is dying in Jack's arms - that's not a love story... it takes Ianto dying for Jack to realize how deep his feelings really are. That is brutal; for him, for Ianto, and for fans of the show. Moreover, I think it's blatantly wrong. Jack's over 200 years old... He may be a bit of a cad, he may choose to avoid emotional entanglements for good reasons, but he's got to know feelings when he has them." Yeah. That. Like I said, my brain's been slow to process this pile of fail, so I'm just gonna quote other people atcha. Sorry.
If that weren't bad enough, then there's the retcon of Ianto Jones. Debenhams and broken legs and everything it implies. Daddy issues. Hero worship. Those cynics who railed on Ianto for being ALL ABOUT JACK were right all along. Thanks, Russell. You couldn't even let us cling onto the idea that maybe Ianto was his own man. You had to twist the knife there. Which brings me to...

THE DEATH AND DEATH OF IANTO JONES OR LOL WHY ARE WE SO UPSET?
Ianto Jones died of authorial intent. That's not a pleasant thing for any fan of Ianto Jones to have to experience, but his death was, given the direction his tale was headed in, something of an inevitability. And after the wailing and the gnashing of teeth, it was something fandom could have probably accepted and lived with, in spite of its pointlessness. And we were upset, yes. Why? Well, the thing about Ianto Jones was that we were never really told that much about him. We never really knew very much about Ianto Jones. We speculated and discussed what made him tick and what was going on behind those suits and that coffee fetish of his, we guessed at his family life and his romantic past, we wrote fic and meta and, in my case, made elaborate picspams about the size of his metaphorical cock. Ianto Jones, given the amount and size of the holes in his canonical character, became, for those that loved him, a guy we invented in our heads. That's what fandom, hardcore fandom, does. We fill in the gaps. We make the character our own, and the opportunity had never been so readily available as it was in Ianto Jones, l33t manwhorespy of mystery. We knew next to nothing, so we made him up. And that's why it hit us so hard when he died the first time. It was like someone had gone into our brain and found the Ianto file we'd so meticulously been piecing together for two years, taken it out, ripped up all the little bits of paper and scattered them around the floor. That's two years' work, dude, what did you have to go and do that for? That hurts, it really does, and that's why Ianto fans were hurting so bad. But... we'd have got over it. Eventually. But then a funny thing happened to Ianto Jones in Day Five. He died again. And that was just... cruel. Death by Debenhams. WE NEVER KNEW IANTO JONES. He was a liar, he was ashamed (ashamed of that wonderful, wonderful family you've just made us care so much about), everything you knew about him was wrong. Why does that make people so mad? Because it's gratuitous. It's as gratuitous as bringing up his sexual orientation AGAIN, even AFTER his death. And again, it's one of those things that makes you step out of the tale and think WHY? Why do this to our memory of this guy? Because as far as the plot goes, as far as the story goes, there's no reason for it. Let the guy rest in peace. But no, the author decides to give us one more snippet that upsets our whole view of the man and all we can do, we, the people who put all that work in, is take that as the final FUCK YOU to our Ianto file. All that stuff in those scraps of paper, all that shit we were hoping to maybe tape back together and make legible again? Pissed on. Not your file to make, dudes. My toy. Always has been. It's no wonder some people have gone batshit angry towards RTD and the team. Which brings me to...

OH LOL THE HILARIOUS INTARWEBS N00BNESS OF JAMES MORAN
Yeah, okay, don't be batshit towards James Moran, guys, because that's not cool, but on the other hand, seriously, James Moran? Don't flounce of the internets when you can't take the heat. It's pathetic. There's a mousie on [livejournal.com profile] who_anon who sums up the James Moran situation better than I ever could (this post has mostly turned into a collection of links to people who sum things up better than I can, sorry.) here:

Moran was more than happy to ride the Janto fandom bandwagon to boost his own profile wrt Torchwood. The Captain's Blog on the BBCA website, for example, was by his own assertion intended to flesh out the relationship far beyond what was happening onscreen. He did it in an intensely shippy way, esp. in having Jack express a romantic and emotional interest in Ianto, more than a sexual one.
And the fans lapped it up. And he's been gleefully lapping up their appreciation ever since, right down to playing along with the pseudo-RPS malarkey Twitterfen were making up, to decide which of him and Joe Lidster was the bigger Janto fan.
And he was a direct active member of the creative team that just shat on that happy relationship.
It doesn't matter what lofty authorial intent/serving higher plot demands BS he wants to spout now: Moran helped that fanbase to choose their pet puppy, joined in with them fussing and petting it, and then helped the nice men take it outside and wring its neck in the backyard while the fans all watched.
I may not agree with the way some of them are expressing their anger and upset, but I sure as fuck understand why so many of them feel like Moran personally betrayed them in this.


So, yeah, that. Whoever you are, anon, word. So what does James Moran do? He flounces off the internet. He says ne NEVER tried to mislead ANYONE, EVER. Now, see, the thing is, James, you were part of that team. This would be the same creative team that brought us these promotional pictures



with the bigMFgun that never was. And if you, James Moran, are now completely refusing to even slightly hold your hands up and say "Yeah, okay, we may have done a tiny bit of a bait and switch on you there," then you're lying. You, who wrote COCKBLOCKED BY BEANS, a scene in which our hero, Jack Harkness, can't even bring himself to JUST BE FORTHRIGHT, and say to Rhys "Hey, dude, could you leave me and Ianto alone for a bit? We've been through hell and we could do with a cuddle. I'm sure you understand." He can't even do that for this man he allegedly cares about, yet you have the gall to call this a "love story." And no, no author deserves to be personally attacked for what they've written, of course not. But you fuck with people's heads and expectations, you're going to get some flak. And if you can't deal with that flak, then maybe you shouldn't be in the business of trying to make an audience care about the characters you create.

That's it. That's all I have to say about Children of Earth. I've reached the point where I don't want to think about it or write about it ever again. I tried to find some beauty in it and I tried to find some hope, I tried to find an uplifting theme, something about Ianto having come from that 10%, but every time I thought about it, I just ended up back at pointless death, hopelessness and despair. And while I understand that that's a tale that needs telling sometimes, I didn't want my big gay cracky pterodactyl show to be used to tell it. I'm upset that it was, and I think I have every right to be upset. If you enjoyed it, good for you, I'm glad somebody did. I didn't, and I reject it. It never happened, dudes. That's my final word on the subject.

Re: RTD is a homophobe? Don't make me laugh.

[identity profile] ceindreadh.livejournal.com 2009-07-15 07:34 am (UTC)(link)
I agree - I also think you could have let Ianto live, and have him support Jack killing Steven; putting the boy on the little stand when Jack couldn't do it, holding back Lucy, etc. Because I think Ianto would have known that was what had to happen. It was horrific but it probably had to happen.


Agreed, and remember that Ianto would have had a personal stake in the outcome. If he opposed Jack, he'd basically be condemning his niece and nephew to the aliens. He supports Jack and he's condemning Jack's grandson.
And imagine the aftermath.
Would Jack end up resenting Ianto because Ianto's family is still alive? Ianto would be torn between relief that he didn't have to lose his family, and sorrow for Jack's loss.
GDL and JB could have done soooo much with that.
ext_50669: (torchwood.boto)

[identity profile] loqia.livejournal.com 2009-07-15 09:44 am (UTC)(link)
You probably don't need randoms coming in here telling you how much they love you, but... I think I love you.

Thank you for articulating so distinctly everything I've been flailing for.

[identity profile] as1mplegirl.livejournal.com 2009-07-15 10:12 am (UTC)(link)
Although I do sometimes go with the cynical we're going to get Gwen Cooper Earth Defender. I think this was an end. They've gone for a scorched earth policy with a big Fuck You to fans so nobody can continue it. That goes double with Davies leaving. It got good ratings but it was his show. The man's a dick but he had clout in the British TV industry. He's not left them the format intact to just slot another show runner in either.

Totally word wrt Jack and the Doctor. I'm cringing at the thought already. Doubly so as the Doctor tends to treat Jack like shit.

My biggest issue is the lying. The difference between what we were promised and what we got. It's been my opinion since CoE aired that if they'd been flogging a product other than a fictional story line they wouldn't be defending themselves on a blog or DVD extra. They'd be defending themselves in a court from a civil claim or a criminal prosecution.

ext_50669: (Default)

[identity profile] loqia.livejournal.com 2009-07-15 10:54 am (UTC)(link)
For me it's drawing bad comics at 2am.

Fuck getting up for work, shitty writing is SRS BIZNES. >:O

Re: RTD is a homophobe? Don't make me laugh.

[identity profile] aviv-b.livejournal.com 2009-07-15 01:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I wish I could go there with you, really. I love PC Andy - I was hoping that he would actually become part of the Torchwood team in S3.

But I can't see what difference Ianto's sexual orientation would make in talking to his sister.

"So sorry to tell you, your dear GAY/STRAIGHT brother is dead." Doesn't add much, does it?

On the other hand, whether his sister knew he was part of TW, would make a difference. "Your brother died bravely defending the earth" vs "Your brother was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

And that's why I stand by my belief that TW was used merely as a vehicle to tell the story without a care about the characters or what had gone on in S! & S2.

Here's a thought...if you replaced Gwen, Jack, Ianto, Rhys and Andy with 5 other random characters, would you have recognized it as a TW story? Blowfish driving sports cars - TW, cyberwomen upgraded to look like intergalactic tarts - TW. Group defeating bad aliens with the help of the Doctor, Martha, Sara Jane - TW or DW.

[identity profile] ceindreadh.livejournal.com 2009-07-15 05:30 pm (UTC)(link)
That goes double with Davies leaving. It got good ratings but it was his show. The man's a dick but he had clout in the British TV industry. He's not left them the format intact to just slot another show runner in either.


RTD may have created it, but AFAIK, it belongs to the BBC. And with the ratings it got, they'll be very disinclined to just drop it.

As for the format, well this is SciFi, I'm sure there's somebody out there able to figure a way to fix it.

[identity profile] as1mplegirl.livejournal.com 2009-07-16 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
"RTD may have created it, but AFAIK, it belongs to the BBC."

Possibly so but he ran it and his influence probably helped it get made. There is a gap there without him not that I'll be sorry to see him go.

"And with the ratings it got, they'll be very disinclined to just drop it."

Maybe they should have thought of that before they let him fuck it up so much. One reason I was reluctant to give credence to the Ianto rumours were that I assumed (especially with such a short season) they'd want a stable format for the show for a while. Carry the old fans with them let the new ones know what to expect. Not crash and burn.

[identity profile] ceindreadh.livejournal.com 2009-07-16 05:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe they should have thought of that before they let him fuck it up so much. One reason I was reluctant to give credence to the Ianto rumours were that I assumed (especially with such a short season) they'd want a stable format for the show for a while. Carry the old fans with them let the new ones know what to expect. Not crash and burn.

That's somethings that's bothering me as well.
I mean, it's been said all along (mainly by the actors at convention appearances) that good ratings for S3 would make S4 more likely. Presumably the BBC actually want a 4th season. So you'd sort of think that somebody would have looked at the script and gone "uh, what do we do in S4 after that ending?"

(then again, they presumably wanted a 4th season of Robin Hood, and look what happened there)

[identity profile] as1mplegirl.livejournal.com 2009-07-16 07:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Well SciFi's usually a poor relation on British TV. :( I have wondered if anyone other than the Yanks actually makes much at all in that genre.

I've no idea if they meant it about season 4 at all or if they were just spinning a line.

3rd hand rumour. Someone posted on livejournal recently saying they'd talked to some people they knew from BBC Wales at a convention and the beeb employees had told them that the crew etc seemed to think that this was the end of TW. I guess we'll know before too long.

[identity profile] radiant-pip.livejournal.com 2009-07-16 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know why the actors would care so much then. They've really pushed the people tuning in for more idea--especially the now dead one. Maybe they all hated how COE ended so much they're hoping to get more to fix it. ;)

[identity profile] edibleflowers.livejournal.com 2009-07-16 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I just got here so randomly from a link to the picspam, and it was so lulzy that I thought I'd check out more of your journal, and this, well. This pretty much sums up all of the inarticulate frustration I've been attempting to deal with since last week. So may I say: WORD. And thank you, especially for bringing up the Debenham's parting shot bullshit. I think I love you now, I hope that's all right.

Dropping in....

[identity profile] be-a-rebel.livejournal.com 2009-07-18 04:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Look, the thing is, I, like many others, am a cynical person. And I don't hate Gwen, and I don't think she interferes with Jack/Ianto (which I never really shipped anyway, I think Ianto could do better)

OH FINALLY. FINALLY. I've been saying that for so long and wanting someone else to agree. FINALLY.

Thinking back on CoE I'm coming to a realisation that I honestly am not that fond of CoE Ianto. I like some scenes....the start where Jack asks him if they should go with Rupesh but then all the second guessing about his sexuality......honestly, what happened to the Ianto who said I don't care? Who calmly propositioned Jack over THE BODY OF SUZIE? Wtf Torchwood? WTF.

I did love Canon!Ianto in s1. Except in Captain Jack Harkness, the whole 'Jack needs me' bit....made me cringe. The problem was that they'd make him phenomenal and then make him say something so remarkably cringe-worthy that I'd be screaming in my head. Yet I will say that overall I did love him in canon, probably because I shut my eyes and nah-nah-ed through the silly and Gareth managed to rescue the rest (I love that man so.)

I think fandom took the greatness, the quips, the smirks, the calm demeanour, the dealing with bodies, the clean ups, the coffee and wrote him the way he should have been written. The way he was written, in some rare moments.

Also I think Jack would have done to Stephen what he did anyway. He is Jack. The man gave 12 children away in 1956. Any love or lack thereof he had for Ianto would not stop him if his connection to his daughter didn't. Seriously, I am still annoyed by the for the sake of the story remarks. When you guys write a brilliant, flawless story? Than you can say that.

*had calmed down but is furious again*

Re: Dropping in....

[identity profile] be-a-rebel.livejournal.com 2009-07-18 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Come over to my mind frame....I'm pretending it's AU. I managed to completely deny my brain the absorption of Tosh and Owen's deaths and I'm trying to do the same thing now.

Also fandom splits. I'm a little amused. I'm in the liked the acting and the dialogue and the scene of Ianto's death drama wise but GOD SO UNNECESSARY bandcamp.

I don't see the point of Torchwood without him. Gwen and Jack are so fucking one dimensional they make my teeth hurt. I can't be bothered to watch them. And if they throw in Lois Habiba....GOD. MORE ONE DIMENSIONAL CHARACTERS. WTF.

Anyway, I'm checking out the picspams. I'm giggling yet hurting. Why'd GDL pick s3 to become brilliant in sad scenes? I want the squidgy face of s1 and s2 back. Then I could laugh my way through it.

*points at her icon*

This? Ianto we knew and loved. Btw, I hated the queer/gay jokes as well. Dear TW, really not funny.
kelticbanshee: (Default)

[personal profile] kelticbanshee 2009-07-22 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
May I just say, I bow to you, I agree with you (you've read my reaction over at my LJ), and I would like to link to this from my "what others are saying" ever growing post?

Seriously, there's a few things in your post I hadn't thought about. I'll have to *ponder* and *think* and maybe write a bit more...
kelticbanshee: (Default)

[personal profile] kelticbanshee 2009-07-23 05:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Linked! *sigh*

Re: I'm sorry to disagree COE was brilliant....

(Anonymous) 2010-01-02 04:04 am (UTC)(link)
Fair enough if they wanted to kill Ianto because they think it’s necessary to the plot, I was completely heartbroken but these things happen. And you’re right in saying "Thirteen episodes of 'Jack and Ianto go to the Supermarket, and Have a Lovely Fluffy Conversation about Eternal Love?" that would have been stupid but I dont think that’s what people really wanted anyways. They could have given us SOMETHING if they insist on killing him off. Just something simple like having Ianto and Jack sit next to each other on the couch rather than an awkward space apart or Jack kissing Ianto when he saved him and maybe saying thanks.
The first 3 episodes Jack was basically acting like he didn’t care about Ianto and his lover just annoyed him but then the way he acted when Ianto died completely contradicted that. It was confusing. Why couldn’t they have just one awkward moment where Ianto wants to talk about being a couple and Jack doesn’t and then given us more affection between the two?
I didn’t mind Jack not saying ‘I love you’ back because when I first watched it I kind of thought it was like Jack didn’t want to hear those words because he didn’t want to believe Ianto was dying. And also how hard would it be to say I love you for the first time when it has to be the last? But then I read somewhere that he RTD wanted Jack to say I love you for the first time with Gwen and that just pissed me off. The best bit off all 5 episodes was when Jack asked Gwen what he had to stay for and she said ‘me’ and he just looked confused and then left anyways.

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