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I JUST REALISED!!
WHY I HATE FROM OUT OF THE RAIN SO MUCH.
It just... so little thought went into this episode when it comes to characterisation, like I and many other people have mentioned, it just DIDN'T MATTER who was the centrepiece of the story, there were no character-related reasons for it to be Ianto, it could just as easily have been Tosh, or anyone. The writing focussed SO MUCH on getting the plot across to the viewer (and IT EVEN SUCKED AT THAT), that no thought went into which character was fulfilling what role.
IF I COULD REWRITE FROM OUT OF THE RAIN, it would go like this, and it's really very simple and it solves a myriad of problems of exposition and such whilst at the same time dealing with some bits and bobs of characterisation and answering some questions that are still mulling around in the minds of your average avid fan:
OPENING SCENE: Carnies. Weirdness. Spooky, yah, cut to credits.
NEXT BIT: Guy does stuff with film, Jack hears spooky music in the Hub, asks Ianto WTF? Ianto tells him to STFU and hands him his coat. Jack and Ianto go to Electro for night out.
REST OF EPISODE: Same, with slightly less exposition needed due to Jack already being clued up, giving us a bit more time to let the baddies actually be scary.
SIMPLE AS THAT. Seriously, if anyone had put any thought into this episode from a character arc perspective, that's how it would have played out. It would have shown us quite cleanly that Jack and Ianto do indeed have a relationship that involves more than sex in the Hub, which I believe is what the writers would like us to believe. At the same time, the resulting spookiness would have amusingly shown us how patently impossible it is for these two to keep their work and private lives separate, which would have been a nice segue into the shagging in the Hub in Adrift (without the shagging in the Hub coming across as QUITE SO CARNAL, but more of an acknowledgement that they're really just going to have to get it where and when they can.) Clean. Simple. Easy as that. AMINORITE? YUS?
It just... so little thought went into this episode when it comes to characterisation, like I and many other people have mentioned, it just DIDN'T MATTER who was the centrepiece of the story, there were no character-related reasons for it to be Ianto, it could just as easily have been Tosh, or anyone. The writing focussed SO MUCH on getting the plot across to the viewer (and IT EVEN SUCKED AT THAT), that no thought went into which character was fulfilling what role.
IF I COULD REWRITE FROM OUT OF THE RAIN, it would go like this, and it's really very simple and it solves a myriad of problems of exposition and such whilst at the same time dealing with some bits and bobs of characterisation and answering some questions that are still mulling around in the minds of your average avid fan:
OPENING SCENE: Carnies. Weirdness. Spooky, yah, cut to credits.
NEXT BIT: Guy does stuff with film, Jack hears spooky music in the Hub, asks Ianto WTF? Ianto tells him to STFU and hands him his coat. Jack and Ianto go to Electro for night out.
REST OF EPISODE: Same, with slightly less exposition needed due to Jack already being clued up, giving us a bit more time to let the baddies actually be scary.
SIMPLE AS THAT. Seriously, if anyone had put any thought into this episode from a character arc perspective, that's how it would have played out. It would have shown us quite cleanly that Jack and Ianto do indeed have a relationship that involves more than sex in the Hub, which I believe is what the writers would like us to believe. At the same time, the resulting spookiness would have amusingly shown us how patently impossible it is for these two to keep their work and private lives separate, which would have been a nice segue into the shagging in the Hub in Adrift (without the shagging in the Hub coming across as QUITE SO CARNAL, but more of an acknowledgement that they're really just going to have to get it where and when they can.) Clean. Simple. Easy as that. AMINORITE? YUS?
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When the hell are you going to start working for BBC Wales already?
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GRRRR.
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I said at the time that it seemed like a season 1 script where the writer had crossed out 'Gwen' and written 'Ianto' on half the lines - apparently it's now been said in interviews that Ianto was indeed given some of Gwen's scenes and lines in the episode. It really shows.
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Yes. The sitting at the table chatting scene was obviously Gwen's, which says to me that Hammond was utterly not filled in on the status of Jack/Gwen/Ianto at the time of writing the script. AND THAT'S NOT A CRIME on Hammond's part, because it's something a slightly more thorough and thought-through rewrite would have fixed.
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So much of that episode's like that; I really wish someone had said "you know, the nurse treating the kid just happening to have worked with a previous victim and spilling her guts with no regard for patient confidentiality because Jack says a perfectly normal phrase; dude, that's really lazy writing. Couldn't this nurse hear about the kid, put two and two together, and come to the hospital to see if there was someone she could speak to about the case? Or anything else that doesn't rely on a massively convenient coincidence?"
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Bloody Ianto. Why does he have to be so awesome?
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Because GDL makes him that way. He was the one who came up for the idea of crying at the end of his flashback in Fragments, after all.
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Chris Chinbnall on Ianto's story in Fragments: "...Gareth [David-Lloyd] added a wonderful depth to it, when, unseen by Jack, he starts to cry at the end."
This just proves that Gareth really does know Ianto better than the writers. If you take that scene out the entire flashback has a very different feel.
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It scares me that we really do owe Ianto to Gareth, not the writers. I'd be really frightened for series 3 if I knew Chibnall was involved, frankly.
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Yeah, Ianto's not cold by any stretch of the imagination. At least Gareth knows that, even if the writers don't.
'Gwen's lines were assigned to Ianto in FOOTR? I guess characters really are interchangeable.'
*nods* The first rule of writing is you write your plot around the characters NOT the other way around.
'I'd be really frightened for series 3 if I knew Chibnall was involved, frankly.'
I figure it can go one of two ways; either they replace Chris with someone who knows what their doing (maybe they'll finally have a show bible) or the writing gets even worse (I don't see how that possible).
'They really didn't have a storyline planned for Ianto this series, did they?'
I'm hoping they give him a storyline in series 3 but I'm not counting on it. The only character the writers really seem to care about is Gwen.
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On the rare occasion that the actors got some script they could *do* something with, like going to see Christina in the hospital or talking in Jack's office, it was lovely and sweet. Unfortunately that was all of, what, five minutes out of a 50-minute episode?
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(Except that joke about Owen, which would have FAILED on any other character, of course.)
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(http://sam-storyteller.livejournal.com/127247.html)
Own opinion: I haven't quite figured out for myself why I dislike it so. But your reasoning makes sense (does it ever not?)
Edited because I am shit at HTML tags.
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It IS odd, and it just shows up how little Hammond was made aware of the state of play between the various characters. I mean, not only is Ianto not going with Jack, Jack is also THE ONLY ONE who DOESN'T KNOW where Ianto is. If you're looking to make their relationship seem really superficial, that's a pretty good way of going about it.
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I recall the writing on BtVS for Buffy/Spike taking on very different characteristics depending on whether the writer in question supported the relationship.
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It really all comes down to RTD and Chibnall for not preparing the writers, and not either hiring competent script editors or not empowering them to do what they need to do.
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I found it bit extreme that because he heard some spooky music, Jack went tearing off in search of Ianto because of his local knowledge. That coupled with the way Jack was shown speeding through the streets of Cardiff to get to the Electro was simply drama for the sake of drama.
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Two of the writers at the rift have been commissioned to write the next two books which should be brilliant because they have a good understanding of the programme now.
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I still think and like the idea that the story could be told from Ianto's perspective and trace his contributions to solving a case. It needs to commit to it, though. Really follow him, so we don't get conversations that Ianto isn't privy to (with exception of the baddie POV).
I do love this idea:
Jack hears spooky music in the Hub, asks Ianto WTF? Ianto tells him to STFU and hands him his coat. Jack and Ianto go to Electro for night out.
I think very much in character for Ianto and Jack. And you're really right about too much time is spent with Jack trying to be clued up.
Rewatching bits, Jack offers almost no information about his time with the carnies and no resolution to how he got out of being involved with them. That did bothered me. It's almost like there's too much material and they are trying to make the storyline believable in only a single episode.
Also, the whole "Ianto, I need your local knowledge" is really... it doesn't make sense. Ianto's been in Cardiff for how long compared to Jack?
So many nifty ideas, just not brought together well.
the resulting spookiness would have amusingly shown us how patently impossible it is for these two to keep their work and private lives separate
Yeap! It would make for an interesting contrast to Gwen/Owen last season.
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Good Lord, that's never even occurred to me. How shit am I?
Rewatching bits, Jack offers almost no information about his time with the carnies and no resolution to how he got out of being involved with them.
Yeah, like I said in my review at the time, so much potential wasted in this episode, there were so many chances to get some personal insight into both Jack and Ianto (this episode also being the one that cemented my theory that Ianto's family are all dead) and they were all just thrown away becasue we needed the plot explaining to us over and over again.
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The lack of continuity/sensibility from one episode to the next really bugs me in Torchwood. (I have it on good authority that the show lacks a writer's "Bible", which probably accounts for the uneven characterization and lack of depth.)
this episode also being the one that cemented my theory that Ianto's family are all dead
Oh definitely.
I get the impression that Ianto has very little to lose. That makes him delightfully dangerous.
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Yeah, I've written a few essays on that particular topic. Bastard showrunners.
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Sometimes, watching Torchwood is like watching a RPG where the characters have interesting backgrounds and the set-ups provide great potential but then are given to
writersplayers who chose to ignore it or forget what their character sheets say."Dude, your character is supposed to be gregarious!"
"Is she?"
WriterPlayer reviews character sheet. "Oh yeah, I forgot."Argh.
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I think GDL said as much at The Rift this weekend. I believe he used the word "rubbish," in fact.
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That's what I said when the episode first aired. There was so little character development that it could have been written for ANY sci-fi show(or even a supernatural show). It was billed as a Ianto-centric episode but it wasn't, there was more character development for him in Fragments. I just hope they don't get Hammond to replace CC.
Love your rewrite, if only you could write for the show. They already 'borrowed' you Ianto!ManWhoreSpy idea.
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(Anonymous) 2008-04-28 06:32 pm (UTC)(link)Word!
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(Anonymous) 2008-04-28 06:29 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
I do think that the producers lucked out on EM not being able to do those scenes. Given the way her character developed for the rest of the season, it would have contributed to her Mary-Sueness. Instead, we got a moment between Jack and his boyfriend. As it should be, really.
I still dislike SB more. I don't like a plot that requires one of the main characters to be a selfish cow in order for it to work. There is no reason that a script like that should open up with a main character looking like the bad guy. That was horrible. Lazy is too kind.
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Until The Rift I wasn't sure how she saw things. I didn't know whether she was playing both sides, or trying working on the Rhys relationship. It seems was the latter, and I am happy for it. I think she needs to step up and be more firm with the writers. She could easily push for less of a selfish, Super!Gwen type. On first impression, it seems she's not like that at all.
That's the funny thing about SB. I did like Gwen in it, except the writers tried really hard to make me hate her by putting her in that reprehensible situation. I blame the writers entirely for that mess. It's the premise that makes me cringe.
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EM wasn't available because she was shooting another episode. Ianto's role was increased. He was still the guy who went to the cinema, he just wasn't the guy in the boardroom scene.
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