Alright, this is some fantastic logic. And, if I thought that they did sleep together prior to cyber woman, it would psychologically occur as you've laid out.
Now, it isn't that I'm not convinced. because,honestly, I actually have no official stance until cannon throws us a friggin bone on this question.
the only thing about what you've typed up, is that none of it necessarily leads to sleeping together.
Although, the argument that Ianto wants to be found out is very compelling, most of the things you've laid out are great reasons why they would've been sleeping together, but it's not the only conclusion to be drawn.
And that's just the thing with these two, isn't it? There is no definite conclusion we can draw, because if there was, we'dve drawn it already.
the only thing that's actually standing in my way of being completely on board with the side that they've been sleeping together all along are two things.
1) I'm actually not entirely convinced that the earlier dynamic between the characters is that of two people who have been sleeping together. I need to rewatch earlier episodes to really investigate. But, you act differently towards someone you're sleeping with, even if it is kept under wraps, and I'm not sure that kind of "chemistry" is there with the two of them.
2) I am actually not totally convinced that Jack would not have known about the cyberwoman in his basement if he WAS sleeping with Ianto.
Allow me to explain.
In my opinion, Jack is the kind of character who uses sex as a primary communication tool. This doesn't necessarily mean sleeping with someone, but the innuendo, kissing, touch, etc... Jack knows what's what when it comes to sex, and imo, is probably most emotionally intuitive when he is being of a sensual/sexual nature with someone. see, yes, jack can have sex with out all that emotional stuff, like it's just sex, but we know from doctor who and TW that jack has used seduction/sex to get information as well as just for fun. Just because he'll sleep with anything that's gorgeous doesn't mean he doesn't learn a thing or two about them. just because no emotional connection is being made, doesn't mean that you don't notice something about someone. And I am not convinced that Ianto is so great of a liar that he would be able to hide Lisa if he was sleeping with Jack. Especially if you assume that Ianto is new to homosexual sex and Especially if you assume that they slept with each other repeatedly.
I think, since I agree with you that Ianto was going through so many emotions and conflicts and had himself stuck in such a stalemate, that Jack actually would've picked up on the fact that something was always seemingly wrong with Ianto when they slept together. Cause, since sex is such a release, I don't think Ianto really would've been able to hide it all away.
That being said, you are correct, that line Ianto has is waaay powerful if the two of them are sexual partners at the time. (when was the last time you asked me about my life) It is mad powerful. However, 1) I'm not actually ready to give the writers that much credit, and 2) there are other explanations for the reactions.
But i really am just kind of playing devil's advocate, because...i can? YOu've laid out a fantastic argument, and whether or not I think they slept together prior to cyberwoman, the way you've discussed ianto's emotional state at the time i totally agree with. poor guy was really stuck in a stalemate. great analysis.
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Now, it isn't that I'm not convinced. because,honestly, I actually have no official stance until cannon throws us a friggin bone on this question.
the only thing about what you've typed up, is that none of it necessarily leads to sleeping together.
Although, the argument that Ianto wants to be found out is very compelling, most of the things you've laid out are great reasons why they would've been sleeping together, but it's not the only conclusion to be drawn.
And that's just the thing with these two, isn't it? There is no definite conclusion we can draw, because if there was, we'dve drawn it already.
the only thing that's actually standing in my way of being completely on board with the side that they've been sleeping together all along are two things.
1) I'm actually not entirely convinced that the earlier dynamic between the characters is that of two people who have been sleeping together. I need to rewatch earlier episodes to really investigate. But, you act differently towards someone you're sleeping with, even if it is kept under wraps, and I'm not sure that kind of "chemistry" is there with the two of them.
2) I am actually not totally convinced that Jack would not have known about the cyberwoman in his basement if he WAS sleeping with Ianto.
Allow me to explain.
In my opinion, Jack is the kind of character who uses sex as a primary communication tool. This doesn't necessarily mean sleeping with someone, but the innuendo, kissing, touch, etc... Jack knows what's what when it comes to sex, and imo, is probably most emotionally intuitive when he is being of a sensual/sexual nature with someone. see, yes, jack can have sex with out all that emotional stuff, like it's just sex, but we know from doctor who and TW that jack has used seduction/sex to get information as well as just for fun. Just because he'll sleep with anything that's gorgeous doesn't mean he doesn't learn a thing or two about them. just because no emotional connection is being made, doesn't mean that you don't notice something about someone. And I am not convinced that Ianto is so great of a liar that he would be able to hide Lisa if he was sleeping with Jack. Especially if you assume that Ianto is new to homosexual sex and Especially if you assume that they slept with each other repeatedly.
I think, since I agree with you that Ianto was going through so many emotions and conflicts and had himself stuck in such a stalemate, that Jack actually would've picked up on the fact that something was always seemingly wrong with Ianto when they slept together. Cause, since sex is such a release, I don't think Ianto really would've been able to hide it all away.
That being said, you are correct, that line Ianto has is waaay powerful if the two of them are sexual partners at the time. (when was the last time you asked me about my life) It is mad powerful. However, 1) I'm not actually ready to give the writers that much credit, and 2) there are other explanations for the reactions.
But i really am just kind of playing devil's advocate, because...i can? YOu've laid out a fantastic argument, and whether or not I think they slept together prior to cyberwoman, the way you've discussed ianto's emotional state at the time i totally agree with. poor guy was really stuck in a stalemate. great analysis.
crazytook